I just hope this is the start of something, by that i mean the way we play the bond between team and fans within the stature within the England DNA and we can regularly get to QF, SF and dare i say it finals.
The Germans in the past have not always had the best players or word class players but because of the above managed to ensure they are in the mix most tournaments.
Vital experience for the players. We also have players coming through to fully develop the system that Southgate wants.
Who's coming through? Honest question
A few other posters have basically provided the answer. Also the fact Southgate seems to be able to turn a number of unheard of 'average' players into world level. As long as we put team before individuals we will have a chance.
Haven't caught up with this thread yet. I can't help feeling that Southgate was outdone tactically last night.
All the talk before the game was about them pushing their fullbacks and wingers up on our wingbacks and causing an overload. Southgate had to find a way to deal with this before the game.
They didn't do this first half and we looked comfortable. Second half from the very first move it was clear they had made the decision to do this. Fair enough you don't need to change things straight away give it time and see how the system deals with it. After about 10 mins it was clear we were losing the battle. They were all over our wingbacks and were 2 on 1 with them regularly. This prevented them from getting up and down the pitch as they have done so well all tournament. So that meant in attack we had no width and in defence we had the midfield 3 trying to cover the whole width of the pitch and help pick up one of the side men as well as deal with their world class 2. We were losing the midfield battle. It needed a tactical switch. Either a temporary move like swapping sterling to the left to pick up one of the side men until we had weathered the storm. Or switching to a back r to match them. At the very least we could have used RLC as some fresh legs in midfield as it was clear Ali and Lingard were struggling to get wide quick enough. Something had to change and it didn't. We allowed them to overrun us in midfield for too long and they made us pay for that.
Kane sat too deep all match
Exactly right - you need to react to these things when it is clear the game has changed. It felt like that before they scored. In terms of what you do - I think there are different things but doing something different is the first priority. I think when managers are not sure what to do for the best, they delay. I'd rather they try something that may not work faster.
Pickford Trippier New LB Gomez Stones Maguire Henderson New CM (Winks?) Lingard New Attacking Mid / Or the Man City version of Sterling Kane
We need an English version of Modric/Pirlo if we are to get anywhere - I suspect the nearest we have at present is Jonjo Shelvey.
Is why we have to hope that Phil Foden or Mason Mount get their chances at Man City and Chelsea respectively as they're probably the best young kids coming through for England in that sort of position
The problem is we dont seem to have another Goalscorer coming through who can take the pressure off Kane; Tammy Abraham and Dominic Solanke have been tipped to set the world alight yet neither appear to have done so and I still dont rate Rashford as our next big hope
Also have players like Lewis Cook, Tom Davies, Winks, Loftus-Cheek, Lookman, Solanke, Brewster, Reece Oxford, Hudson-Odoi. Plenty of great talent coming through and reasons to think this can be the start of something good and not just a one-off miracle tournament.
Also have players like Lewis Cook, Tom Davies, Winks, Loftus-Cheek, Lookman, Solanke, Brewster, Reece Oxford, Hudson-Odoi. Plenty of great talent coming through and reasons to think this can be the start of something good and not just a one-off miracle tournament.
And most importantly... the FA need to do everything they can to keep hold of Southgate as he's going to be linked with every Premier League job that becomes available over the course of the next season!!
He's the one man that I can think of that'll keep an eye on the Senior Players and will keep a close eye on any potential kids coming through - Let him go and I fear we run the risk of bringing someone in who'll simply see the England job as an easy wage, and other than attending a Premier League game each week, will simply select the same old names
Vital experience for the players. We also have players coming through to fully develop the system that Southgate wants.
Who's coming through? Honest question
A few other posters have basically provided the answer. Also the fact Southgate seems to be able to turn a number of unheard of 'average' players into world level. As long as we put team before individuals we will have a chance.
I had never heard of Harry Maguire before this tournament. I didn't follow the Premier League last season as closely as before so that was probably why I didn't know who he was. I think he did well at this World Cup and that superb header against Sweden is one of the things I'll remember about England at this tournament.
Apart from what England could have done better, I keep asking myself why could I have have done better?
If I had watched it in the same room as the Colombia game or likewise drank Sol again instead of San Miguel, would that have helped? Should my parents have been there watching with us all again? Who knows?
Vital experience for the players. We also have players coming through to fully develop the system that Southgate wants.
Who's coming through? Honest question
A few other posters have basically provided the answer. Also the fact Southgate seems to be able to turn a number of unheard of 'average' players into world level. As long as we put team before individuals we will have a chance.
I had never heard of Harry Maguire before this tournament. I didn't follow the Premier League last season as closely as before so that was probably why I didn't know who he was. I think he did well at this World Cup and that superb header against Sweden is one of the things I'll remember about England at this tournament.
That's another thing i love about Southgate, he picks players that suit his system well and doesn't just go for 'names'. Time and again in the past we've picked the players first and then tried to get them to play a system that doesn't suit them.
If we'd had someone like McClaren or Allardyce in charge they'd probably have played Phil Jones just because he's at United.
Apart from what England could have done better, I keep asking myself why could I have have done better?
If I had watched it in the same room as the Colombia game or likewise drank Sol again instead of San Miguel, would that have helped? Should my parents have been there watching with us all again? Who knows?
Proper gutted this morning, the most important thing is to build from here. Southgate and this team have got the whole country behind them like something we haven't seen for well over a decade. If they use this momentum and develop their system of playing further we could at least continue to reach these heights.
Proud of how we played this tournament. Southgate is so classy in victory and defeat, the players played fair all tournament in the face of some properly dirty tactics, and with a few more years experience and the increasing crop of under 20/17 World Cup winners hopefully coming through the ranks we could do brilliantly... we still believe?
Chances like that to get to a World Cup Final come along once in a lifetime.
I think they happen more often than people think - 1990, Belgium and Cameroon before a difficult semi final, 2002 teams going out left, right and centre. Euro 2016 is another example, Portugal's side of the draw.
In the last 20-25 years teams like Sweden, Romania and Turkey have reached semis without playing anyone great.
Lopsided draws will happen more often in 24 team Euros and 48 team World Cups too.
I’m talking about England having the easiest route to a final ever imaginable, weak group , weak knock out opponents and a weak semi final opponent , we will never see that again .
Until the young English players are playing consistently at a high level, from an early age, we're not going to be where we need to be. English players are considered young at a late age compared to the nations we look up to.
Most of that squad came through the football league / lower prem and that speaks volumes, our top clubs are not producing enough. At the same age that Loftus Cheek is now, Modric was a class act signing for Spurs. Lukaku at 21 was leaving Chelsea because he wasn't playing - Rashford at a similar age is falling further down the pecking order at United.
Chances like that to get to a World Cup Final come along once in a lifetime.
I think they happen more often than people think - 1990, Belgium and Cameroon before a difficult semi final, 2002 teams going out left, right and centre. Euro 2016 is another example, Portugal's side of the draw.
In the last 20-25 years teams like Sweden, Romania and Turkey have reached semis without playing anyone great.
Lopsided draws will happen more often in 24 team Euros and 48 team World Cups too.
I’m talking about England having the easiest route to a final ever imaginable, weak group , weak knock out opponents and a weak semi final opponent , we will never see that again .
And I'm saying we might - there are easy sides of the draw etc more than people are suggesting, we could get one again.
Those young men put themselves in a fantastic position and will be disappointed. They need to learn from it and I don't doubt they will. Same goes for Southgate.
This isn't the culmination of a generation like in 1990. Its the start of one. And building on a foundation of a world cup semi final is a pretty fantastic place to start.
Don't forget we have U20 and U17 world champions following this lot as well as multiple toulon tournament winners. This is nothing like 2006/10/14 where we couldnt see where the players were coming from. The players in the first team will begin racking up medals, and hopefully on the continental stage too.
In two years the semi finals and final of the European Championships are at Wembley. We seldom lose there.
Get used to heartbreak at the latter end of tournaments. Only 1 team can win. But England are well and truly on the path to being the team of the next decade.
Klinsmann got it spot on the other day and its very possible we're now going to go down the same route
2006 a very young Germany Squad went to the World Cup (albeit their own) they'd won nothing in 10-years and got to the Semi-Finals before losing to Italy, remember it was a German team that had been completely revolutionised after their embarassing performance in Euro 2000... Eight years later and they were lifting the World Cup
No reason why that same sort of thing wont happen for this England team
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
Dunno, the amount of kids that seem happy to go to Germany now is rising very quickly
Especially as they'll look at the chances that Sancho got last season - Lookman too will be a great example, can see him getting barely a chance this term which will send a silent message to the kids proving they can stay in England or go to Germany where they'll be given opportunities
Think even Liverpool struggled to keep hold of Rhian Brewster this summer as he was nearly the latest to go
Vital experience for the players. We also have players coming through to fully develop the system that Southgate wants.
Who's coming through? Honest question
A few other posters have basically provided the answer. Also the fact Southgate seems to be able to turn a number of unheard of 'average' players into world level. As long as we put team before individuals we will have a chance.
I had never heard of Harry Maguire before this tournament. I didn't follow the Premier League last season as closely as before so that was probably why I didn't know who he was. I think he did well at this World Cup and that superb header against Sweden is one of the things I'll remember about England at this tournament.
That's another thing i love about Southgate, he picks players that suit his system well and doesn't just go for 'names'. Time and again in the past we've picked the players first and then tried to get them to play a system that doesn't suit them.
If we'd had someone like McClaren or Allardyce in charge they'd probably have played Phil Jones just because he's at United.
Absolutely. Also Hart would have been in goal instead of Pickford. Rooney might have been in the squad too.
Teenage Walcott wouldn't have been chosen over Darren Bent had a manager like Southgate been in charge in 2006. Southgate is a breath of fresh air and I'm glad that kind of thing won't seem to happen as long as he's the England manager.
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
I don’t mind players going abroad - I think it actually helps them progress. Lookman for example will be much better for his experience last season.
The premier league is a joke to be honest. Money, it’s all about the money.
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
I'm hoping now that those England players have put themselves in the shop window and have given their peers something to aim for. Several former England players could not understand why the overseas players at their clubs got so excited about going on international duty. Fingers crossed we now inject that excitement about play it for your country into this generation of English footballers. They need to understand that they need to be playing regular, even if it means going abroad, they have to be playing regular top level football, not warming a bench for Chelsea or Man City
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
Dunno, the amount of kids that seem happy to go to Germany now is rising very quickly
Especially as they'll look at the chances that Sancho got last season - Lookman too will be a great example, can see him getting barely a chance this term which will send a silent message to the kids proving they can stay in England or go to Germany where they'll be given opportunities
Think even Liverpool struggled to keep hold of Rhian Brewster this summer as he was nearly the latest to go
I also think the rough and tumble of the Prem doesn't encourage the development of our young 'technical' players coming through the Academies and younger age international teams. The great foreign players who have graced the Prem had their technique honed elsewhere before arriving here.
The wealth of the Premier League will always hold us back - prevents young domestic players getting an early chance and just as importantly discourages them to try their hand overseas.
I'm hoping now that those England players have put themselves in the shop window and have given their peers something to aim for. Several former England players could not understand why the overseas players at their clubs got so excited about going on international duty. Fingers crossed we now inject that excitement about play it for your country into this generation of English footballers. They need to understand that they need to be playing regular, even if it means going abroad, they have to be playing regular top level football, not warming a bench for Chelsea or Man City
Speaking through it at work, and someone made the good point that we seem to be confusing the strength of the team and the favourability of the draw.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.
Comments
The Germans in the past have not always had the best players or word class players but because of the above managed to ensure they are in the mix most tournaments.
I would take that.
The other one who I’m hopeful about is Sancho at Dortmund.
Sessengnon needs to be in there as well.
The problem is we dont seem to have another Goalscorer coming through who can take the pressure off Kane; Tammy Abraham and Dominic Solanke have been tipped to set the world alight yet neither appear to have done so and I still dont rate Rashford as our next big hope
You also have to wonder if Leon Bailey might get involved now
Trippier
Sessegnon
Gomez
Stones
Maguire
Henderson
Foden
Lingard
Sancho
Kane
Also have players like Lewis Cook, Tom Davies, Winks, Loftus-Cheek, Lookman, Solanke, Brewster, Reece Oxford, Hudson-Odoi. Plenty of great talent coming through and reasons to think this can be the start of something good and not just a one-off miracle tournament.
He's the one man that I can think of that'll keep an eye on the Senior Players and will keep a close eye on any potential kids coming through - Let him go and I fear we run the risk of bringing someone in who'll simply see the England job as an easy wage, and other than attending a Premier League game each week, will simply select the same old names
With that, Lovren being the love child of the ref and with Kane looking injured and really not contributing after 45 minutes. We were up against it.
Yep, they did the nation proud but as a young team and coach lacked game management.
The chance was there and we couldn’t take it.
Gutted.
If I had watched it in the same room as the Colombia game or likewise drank Sol again instead of San Miguel, would that have helped?
Should my parents have been there watching with us all again? Who knows?
Am I partly to blame?
If we'd had someone like McClaren or Allardyce in charge they'd probably have played Phil Jones just because he's at United.
Proud of how we played this tournament. Southgate is so classy in victory and defeat, the players played fair all tournament in the face of some properly dirty tactics, and with a few more years experience and the increasing crop of under 20/17 World Cup winners hopefully coming through the ranks we could do brilliantly... we still believe?
Most of that squad came through the football league / lower prem and that speaks volumes, our top clubs are not producing enough. At the same age that Loftus Cheek is now, Modric was a class act signing for Spurs. Lukaku at 21 was leaving Chelsea because he wasn't playing - Rashford at a similar age is falling further down the pecking order at United.
This isn't the culmination of a generation like in 1990. Its the start of one. And building on a foundation of a world cup semi final is a pretty fantastic place to start.
Don't forget we have U20 and U17 world champions following this lot as well as multiple toulon tournament winners. This is nothing like 2006/10/14 where we couldnt see where the players were coming from. The players in the first team will begin racking up medals, and hopefully on the continental stage too.
In two years the semi finals and final of the European Championships are at Wembley. We seldom lose there.
Get used to heartbreak at the latter end of tournaments. Only 1 team can win. But England are well and truly on the path to being the team of the next decade.
2006 a very young Germany Squad went to the World Cup (albeit their own) they'd won nothing in 10-years and got to the Semi-Finals before losing to Italy, remember it was a German team that had been completely revolutionised after their embarassing performance in Euro 2000... Eight years later and they were lifting the World Cup
No reason why that same sort of thing wont happen for this England team
Especially as they'll look at the chances that Sancho got last season - Lookman too will be a great example, can see him getting barely a chance this term which will send a silent message to the kids proving they can stay in England or go to Germany where they'll be given opportunities
Think even Liverpool struggled to keep hold of Rhian Brewster this summer as he was nearly the latest to go
Teenage Walcott wouldn't have been chosen over Darren Bent had a manager like Southgate been in charge in 2006. Southgate is a breath of fresh air and I'm glad that kind of thing won't seem to happen as long as he's the England manager.
The premier league is a joke to be honest. Money, it’s all about the money.
People are saying that this team wipes the floor with the so called 'golden generation' but the team with Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc never got a draw like this lot did.
I do wonder what the Japan 2002 side for instance would have done had they got Sweden and Croatia instead of Brazil in the quarters.