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Potholes Epidemic!

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  • FFS!!... Just had my MOT done and its failed on the Anti-Roll Bar Link, is the exact same thing that my Wife's car failed on back in August!!

    Just googled and the biggest problem to this on a car = POT HOLES... Highways need to be bloody sorted or they should be charged for this!!
  • Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Oh Daggs, do your research mate.
  • Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
  • JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    Perhaps we should just charge cyclists for riding on pavements...
  • edited May 2018

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    Perhaps we should just charge cyclists for riding on pavements...
    And pedestrians for walking out into the road from pavements staring at their phones.
    And people who clog up pavements with their buggies and mobility scooters (ooh the damage they cause) and blinkin' zimmer frames, and those annoying (and dangerous) scooter things, some of which have motors; you don't see them paying any road tax do yo,u so what right do they have to make our lives a misery weaving in and out of the white dog poo on the pavement.
  • Fucks sake. This again?

    For those that fail to understand:

    1 - Your 'road' tax is not 'road' tax. Its an emissions tax. Based on the pollution and damage your car causes to to the environment. Bicycles cause no pollution or damage - hence no tax. Tax for upkeep of the roads comes from three sources - income tax, VAT and council tax - so everyone pays for the roads. If anyone should be pissed off about paying for the roads, it's pedestrians who don't own a car or a bike. You don't hear them moaning about it do you? Unless you're so libertarian you think that nobody should pay any tax for anything and that services should be rendered in an 'as you use them' basis. In which case we wouldn't HAVE any fucking roads, because nobody woukd ever be able to agree on how much they should pay.

    2 - The vast majority of adults who own bicycles also own cars, and pay the same emissions tax that other people who own cars do. So, in principle, those of us who choose to ride a bike when we aren't driving, are, in fact, paying for those people who drive to take the piss out of us with this whinge.

    So, politely, fuck off.

    Road tax (and indeed petrol duty) are nothing to do with emissions, they're just a way for governments to raise income, seeing that they first came in decades before anyone was worried about CO2 or pollution.

    Of course politicians can now use green issues as a justification, in the same way that alcohol and tobacco duties are used to dissuade consumption, but the revenue earning nature is still their main reason for them being there.
  • Fucks sake. This again?

    For those that fail to understand:

    1 - Your 'road' tax is not 'road' tax. Its an emissions tax. Based on the pollution and damage your car causes to to the environment. Bicycles cause no pollution or damage - hence no tax. Tax for upkeep of the roads comes from three sources - income tax, VAT and council tax - so everyone pays for the roads. If anyone should be pissed off about paying for the roads, it's pedestrians who don't own a car or a bike. You don't hear them moaning about it do you? Unless you're so libertarian you think that nobody should pay any tax for anything and that services should be rendered in an 'as you use them' basis. In which case we wouldn't HAVE any fucking roads, because nobody woukd ever be able to agree on how much they should pay.

    2 - The vast majority of adults who own bicycles also own cars, and pay the same emissions tax that other people who own cars do. So, in principle, those of us who choose to ride a bike when we aren't driving, are, in fact, paying for those people who drive to take the piss out of us with this whinge.

    So, politely, fuck off.

    you fuck off! you lycra clad weirdo!
  • Scooter users are essentially just failed cyclists.

  • Fucks sake. This again?

    For those that fail to understand:

    1 - Your 'road' tax is not 'road' tax. Its an emissions tax. Based on the pollution and damage your car causes to to the environment. Bicycles cause no pollution or damage - hence no tax. Tax for upkeep of the roads comes from three sources - income tax, VAT and council tax - so everyone pays for the roads. If anyone should be pissed off about paying for the roads, it's pedestrians who don't own a car or a bike. You don't hear them moaning about it do you? Unless you're so libertarian you think that nobody should pay any tax for anything and that services should be rendered in an 'as you use them' basis. In which case we wouldn't HAVE any fucking roads, because nobody woukd ever be able to agree on how much they should pay.

    2 - The vast majority of adults who own bicycles also own cars, and pay the same emissions tax that other people who own cars do. So, in principle, those of us who choose to ride a bike when we aren't driving, are, in fact, paying for those people who drive to take the piss out of us with this whinge.

    So, politely, fuck off.

    you fuck off! you lycra clad weirdo!
    What the fuck are you, his big brother or something? Get back in your kitchen and do the cooking.
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  • Fucks sake. This again?

    For those that fail to understand:

    1 - Your 'road' tax is not 'road' tax. Its an emissions tax. Based on the pollution and damage your car causes to to the environment. Bicycles cause no pollution or damage - hence no tax. Tax for upkeep of the roads comes from three sources - income tax, VAT and council tax - so everyone pays for the roads. If anyone should be pissed off about paying for the roads, it's pedestrians who don't own a car or a bike. You don't hear them moaning about it do you? Unless you're so libertarian you think that nobody should pay any tax for anything and that services should be rendered in an 'as you use them' basis. In which case we wouldn't HAVE any fucking roads, because nobody woukd ever be able to agree on how much they should pay.

    2 - The vast majority of adults who own bicycles also own cars, and pay the same emissions tax that other people who own cars do. So, in principle, those of us who choose to ride a bike when we aren't driving, are, in fact, paying for those people who drive to take the piss out of us with this whinge.

    So, politely, fuck off.

    you fuck off! you lycra clad weirdo!
    What the fuck are you, his big brother or something? Get back in your kitchen and do the cooking.
    that's bold for a man in a leotard!
    A brightly coloured one at that
  • JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    It is a great idea, if push bikes have to use use the roads, then they should pay for that use as should all vehicles, it would raise more revenue which should get put back on the roads.
    Forgot emissions etc, the roads need more money spent on them I think we can all agree, so lets get every road user paying. And all vehicles should also have pertinent insurance, and be registered with a reg plate etc.
    Also I'm sick to death of the same old crap about 'road tax' from cyclists, this is how it started, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists and to be spent on roads – and was created in 1909' various governments have amended and moved the goal posts over the years.
    Where I live out in Kent, on a nice day there are packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.
    Also its total bollox about the environment, and a convenient 'moral high ground winner' often trotted out by cyclists, BUT as soon as its raining or cold you dont see them, the majority are in their cars, so if the really cared then they would cycle in all weathers.
    You may have gathered I dont want them on the roads, they're just a pain in the arse.
  • Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    It is a great idea, if push bikes have to use use the roads, then they should pay for that use as should all vehicles, it would raise more revenue which should get put back on the roads.
    Forgot emissions etc, the roads need more money spent on them I think we can all agree, so lets get every road user paying. And all vehicles should also have pertinent insurance, and be registered with a reg plate etc.
    Also I'm sick to death of the same old crap about 'road tax' from cyclists, this is how it started, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists and to be spent on roads – and was created in 1909' various governments have amended and moved the goal posts over the years.
    Where I live out in Kent, on a nice day there are packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.
    Also its total bollox about the environment, and a convenient 'moral high ground winner' often trotted out by cyclists, BUT as soon as its raining or cold you dont see them, the majority are in their cars, so if the really cared then they would cycle in all weathers.
    You may have gathered I dont want them on the roads, they're just a pain in the arse.
    i've already covered this point
  • A strongly worded complaint to the council and a few days later they have all been filled in! A temporary fix again but at least my road isn't littered with wheel graveyards any more
  • A strongly worded complaint to the council and a few days later they have all been filled in! A temporary fix again but at least my road isn't littered with wheel graveyards any more

    The problem with those temporary fixes is that next winter another frost will rip them apart again...
  • A strongly worded complaint to the council and a few days later they have all been filled in! A temporary fix again but at least my road isn't littered with wheel graveyards any more

    The problem with those temporary fixes is that next winter another frost will rip them apart again...
    Indeed and the last temporary job only lasted a few weeks but I'll have moved house by then, so I'll have someone else to complain to :wink:
  • Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    It is a great idea, if push bikes have to use use the roads, then they should pay for that use as should all vehicles, it would raise more revenue which should get put back on the roads.
    Forgot emissions etc, the roads need more money spent on them I think we can all agree, so lets get every road user paying. And all vehicles should also have pertinent insurance, and be registered with a reg plate etc.
    Also I'm sick to death of the same old crap about 'road tax' from cyclists, this is how it started, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists and to be spent on roads – and was created in 1909' various governments have amended and moved the goal posts over the years.
    Where I live out in Kent, on a nice day there are packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.
    Also its total bollox about the environment, and a convenient 'moral high ground winner' often trotted out by cyclists, BUT as soon as its raining or cold you dont see them, the majority are in their cars, so if the really cared then they would cycle in all weathers.
    You may have gathered I dont want them on the roads, they're just a pain in the arse.
    Oh dear.
  • JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    It is a great idea, if push bikes have to use use the roads, then they should pay for that use as should all vehicles, it would raise more revenue which should get put back on the roads.
    Forgot emissions etc, the roads need more money spent on them I think we can all agree, so lets get every road user paying. And all vehicles should also have pertinent insurance, and be registered with a reg plate etc.
    Also I'm sick to death of the same old crap about 'road tax' from cyclists, this is how it started, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists and to be spent on roads – and was created in 1909' various governments have amended and moved the goal posts over the years.
    Where I live out in Kent, on a nice day there are packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.
    Also its total bollox about the environment, and a convenient 'moral high ground winner' often trotted out by cyclists, BUT as soon as its raining or cold you dont see them, the majority are in their cars, so if the really cared then they would cycle in all weathers.
    You may have gathered I dont want them on the roads, they're just a pain in the arse.
    Oh dear.
    Excellent, well thought out and admirable response. Most enlightening.
  • Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    It is a great idea, if push bikes have to use use the roads, then they should pay for that use as should all vehicles, it would raise more revenue which should get put back on the roads.
    Forgot emissions etc, the roads need more money spent on them I think we can all agree, so lets get every road user paying. And all vehicles should also have pertinent insurance, and be registered with a reg plate etc.
    Also I'm sick to death of the same old crap about 'road tax' from cyclists, this is how it started, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists and to be spent on roads – and was created in 1909' various governments have amended and moved the goal posts over the years.
    Where I live out in Kent, on a nice day there are packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.
    Also its total bollox about the environment, and a convenient 'moral high ground winner' often trotted out by cyclists, BUT as soon as its raining or cold you dont see them, the majority are in their cars, so if the really cared then they would cycle in all weathers.
    You may have gathered I dont want them on the roads, they're just a pain in the arse.
    Oh dear.
    Excellent, well thought out and admirable response. Most enlightening.
    To be fair, when you post bollocks like: "packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.", you pretty much open yourself up to the sort of response you've got.
  • Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    JamesSeed said:

    Greenie said:

    Daggs said:

    Daggs said:

    Acutely aware of this as a racing cyclist. Bad enough hitting them on training rides or commutes, but in road races they're absolutely fucking lethal. In a tight bunch travelling at 50k/h it's impossible to point out or respond quickly enough to them. I've had two races this year where potholes have caused massive crashes - one was a lad from Warrington RC who was two riders in front of me on a slight downhill - broke his frame as he went into it and crashed right in front of me. Shoulder reconstruction, 5 grand on a new bike

    It's definitely getting worse - massive under-investment in road surfacing in the last 30 years and current measures (surface dressing done by lazy thick bastards which is designed to extend the life of a road by 7-10 years) generally last less than a year before craters six inches deep and ten foot wide open up the first time it dips below five degrees

    Still, people want to pay less tax, things like this will always suffer.

    Yup! roads are bad no doubt. Very bad if you ride on two wheels, motorbike or scooter. But of course those of us who do, pay tax for the privilege, unlike cyclists, who use the roads for free.
    Been done on here before but just to clarify cyclists pay as much tax towards the repair of roads as car drivers because the vehicle tax car drivers pay does not go towards repairing the roads. The local council pays for those repairs.

    https://www.osv.ltd.uk/where-does-vehicle-tax-go/
    But I pay all the other taxes a cyclist pays, then I pay an extra tax to use my scooter. Cyclists therefore should also pay the extra tax to use the roads.
    Spot on, the cyclists dont seem to get this do they?
    Also if they paid for a test, road insurance and an MOT for their bike then that Tax would help.
    Great idea mate. Lets get them off their bikes and back into their cars. Just what we need.
    Actually, as bikes don't damage the environment or damage the roads perhaps they should get a rebate. Your scooter tax doesn't go towards the roads, it goes into general taxation. And maybe there should be a noise tax on scooters for that annoying buzz they make ;-)
    It is a great idea, if push bikes have to use use the roads, then they should pay for that use as should all vehicles, it would raise more revenue which should get put back on the roads.
    Forgot emissions etc, the roads need more money spent on them I think we can all agree, so lets get every road user paying. And all vehicles should also have pertinent insurance, and be registered with a reg plate etc.
    Also I'm sick to death of the same old crap about 'road tax' from cyclists, this is how it started, ‘Road tax’ – a ring-fenced pot of cash raised by motorists and to be spent on roads – and was created in 1909' various governments have amended and moved the goal posts over the years.
    Where I live out in Kent, on a nice day there are packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.
    Also its total bollox about the environment, and a convenient 'moral high ground winner' often trotted out by cyclists, BUT as soon as its raining or cold you dont see them, the majority are in their cars, so if the really cared then they would cycle in all weathers.
    You may have gathered I dont want them on the roads, they're just a pain in the arse.
    Oh dear.
    Excellent, well thought out and admirable response. Most enlightening.
    To be fair, when you post bollocks like: "packs of these appalling lycra clad, overweight wannabe Bradley Wiggins all over the place, you finally get past one group and there is another down the road, they are a bloody menace. Ive lost count of the amount of times I've crawled up Vigo hill at 3 MPH in my car following a geezer with a head like a tomato. Its become a bore.
    We often have 'cycling events (time trials,races etc) around my way, now its actually illegal to race and time trial on the roads, but the buggers get away with it. If I was to arrange a race on my sports bike with a few mates up and down the A20, imagine the outcry, one rule for them and one for everyone else, The council even created a purpose built track near Ebbsfleet (The Cyclopark) at a cost of millions, but no they still want to ride on the roads.", you pretty much open yourself up to the sort of response you've got.
    But only if you are a cyclist, so not really. You see I believe its all fair comment, because its what goes on, so not bollocks, but silly responses by people who dont want to know the reality, dont help. The next step is the 'offended' one.
    @Leroy Ambrose you're a strong, opinionated poster on here, so really you should understand strong opinionated points more than most.
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  • Nope. You've posted bollocks. I could deconstruct it line by line if you want? Really there isn't any point in it - because there's no 'winning' on the Internet, but if you want, each thing you've posted there can be picked apart. Would make you look a bit daft, but if you're standing behind what you've said there, and genuinely believe it, then happy to do so. I'm not 'offended'. Just a bit baffled.
  • Nope. You've posted bollocks. I could deconstruct it line by line if you want? Really there isn't any point in it - because there's no 'winning' on the Internet, but if you want, each thing you've posted there can be picked apart. Would make you look a bit daft, but if you're standing behind what you've said there, and genuinely believe it, then happy to do so. I'm not 'offended'. Just a bit baffled.

    Oh dear!
  • edited May 2018

    Nope. You've posted bollocks. I could deconstruct it line by line if you want? Really there isn't any point in it - because there's no 'winning' on the Internet, but if you want, each thing you've posted there can be picked apart. Would make you look a bit daft, but if you're standing behind what you've said there, and genuinely believe it, then happy to do so. I'm not 'offended'. Just a bit baffled.

    @Leroy Ambrose Have to say in defense of @Greenie that nine years ago I held similar views, although not as strongly. Basically I thought cyclists were people who got in the way of my car, and annoyed me in traffic jams by cycling past them. And that's about it.

    I only took up cycling when commuting to work on the Northern Line became unbearable. You know the rest; A couple of years later I owned three or four bikes and would happily cycle off to Brighton, or somewhere, on a day off. At my bi-annual work medical the doctors told me I'd gone from being at a medium to high risk of a stroke or heart attack, to having the fitness of someone twenty years younger.

    I was also happy to cycle to the shops or cinema etc rather than take the car. In fact the car increasingly only got used for visiting relatives in Suffolk or Somerset. The idea that anyone should pay double tax (no matter what you call the tax) for leaving the car behind is laughable.

    In order for our great city to be continue to be habitable and navigable we need to encourage people out of their cars to reduce pollution, and to reduce traffic jams. And you don't do that by making people pay extra tax. That's why governments of both persuasions are against trying to tax cyclists and always will be. It's why the Government introduced the Cycle to Work Scheme. You effectively get a tax rebate to help you cycle to work, to get your car off the road in other words. To tax people again for cycling (even if it was possible) would be ridiculous. Is there a city anywhere in the world doing so? Cycling improves health, meaning a potential reduction in the burden on the NHS Greenie. (Seriously, the government knows this stuff, so tax incentives for cyclists are thought to pay for themselves in spades).

    And as a motorist myself, the fewer cars on the road the better, so again, reducing the number of people cycling doesn't make sense.

    But yes, middle aged men in lycra sometimes look ridiculous. But I'd rather see them struggling up a hill on a bike that sitting behind the wheel of a car in a traffic jam, adding to the the pollution and creating more congestion.
  • In this day and age, you do wonder why somebody can't invent a temporary fix that is permanent!
  • Greenie said:

    Nope. You've posted bollocks. I could deconstruct it line by line if you want? Really there isn't any point in it - because there's no 'winning' on the Internet, but if you want, each thing you've posted there can be picked apart. Would make you look a bit daft, but if you're standing behind what you've said there, and genuinely believe it, then happy to do so. I'm not 'offended'. Just a bit baffled.

    Oh dear!
    Is that a 'whoosh'? Are you on a wind-up or are you backtracking? Because I'm genuinely not getting it
  • edited May 2018
    They have scheduled for our road to be fixed properly (apparently) this week! However, a sinkhole has now opened up down the road in barming - I think their priorities may have changed!

    Maybe change the title to potholes/sinkhole epidemic? ;)
  • They have scheduled for our road to be fixed properly (apparently) this week! However, a sinkhole has now opened up down the road in barming - I think their priorities may have changed!

    Maybe change the title to potholes/sinkhole epidemic? ;)

    That's a hell of a sinkhole too

    Problem with potholes and roads is the road network has never been busier so even when a council close a road to resurface it they are really up against it for time. Not to mention the tight bastards trying to get the big jobs done cheaper and cheaper so what happens is the roads get opened quicker than maybe they should, more motorists than ever use them, throw into the mix a load of salt and grit being lobbed on them when the snow comes so people can still use roads that shouldn't really be used in the snow with roads that are not really of the integrity to stand up to the sort of pounding they get then you have potholes and craters open up from this punishment.

    So if these bastard potholes are on your route to wherever they are probably on a main road which will be a bastard to close, close one road to repair potholes and you have people screaming at you (as a council) because they want to use the road and not a diversion route or they want their pet road shut and repaired

    Shit all round really
  • edited May 2018
    We have a stretch of road near us where there are more craters than the moon - and because there are groups of them so close together, it is easier to avoid the road than the craters. You can make all sorts of excuses, but basically, if you starve councils of money and make them responsible for this, this is what you get.
  • shut the country down for 2 weeks & send everyone away to outer mongolia - only people left are the road repairers.....

    only way it will get sorted.
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