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The Plumstead Party

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    Lots of calling in Sunny Sidcup for a non-Conservative vote to block the turning of a local park into housing.
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    I thought this was a thread implying a big knees up going on in Plumstead, and that Roland had sold!
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    Martin Simons standing in the Woolwich Common ward.

    Is this our Martin Simons ?
    Pretty sure it is. Martin Alan Simons standing as libdem candidate. Address in the statement of persons nominated document is the road I think he lives in.
    He's got my vote then. Be good to get an Addick on the council .
    Martin's always been interested in politics and he is is very, very anti-Brexit. Was the first thing he brought up when I met him before Christmas. He'll be a paper candidate here though.
    Surprising seeing as his cigar bill should go down post Brexit.
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    The Plumstead Party is the result of a very specific problem with Greenwich Council - albeit one reflected in other councils across the land - it's neglected Plumstead and other areas for years, long-term residents are pissed off, and newcomers have moved in and realised that trying to get anything done is like banging your head against a brick wall. It's the first real independent challenge to Greenwich Labour since the Valley Party and certainly has them spooked - the increased attention on the area means that, in some ways, the party has won already without the bother of getting elected.

    As for party politics/independents and councils - there's a role for both, but changes in the way councils work and a fairer voting system are desperately needed: Labour in Greenwich and the Tories in Bexley (who are weird mirror images of one another) have wholly disproportionate majorities on their council compared with the votes they actually got, and both are run by largely unaccountable cliques.
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    Riviera said:

    Also just one Monster Raving Loony in Blackheath & Westcombe.
    In Woolwich Riverside is a candidate from the Duma Polska (Polish Pride) Party, a new one on me.

    The MRLP candidate is Trevor Allman, who used to come to CAFC with us in the early 80s though he always self-identified as a Stoke fan, mostly because he liked Gordon Banks I think, despite having no connection that I recall with the Potteries.
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    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
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    The Plumstead Party? Hold me beer....
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    edited April 2018
    An old school class mate and Charlton fan knocked on my door last week, canvassing for my vote.
    I regretted being unable to vote for someone who was removed from our class, for continually shouting out "oi" in lessons :-)
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    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
    Do you have absolutely no vision in life or even an imagination? Things can be changed!
    I bet your favourite band is Status Quo!
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    Riviera said:


    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
    Do you have absolutely no vision in life or even an imagination? Things can be changed!
    I bet your favourite band is Status Quo!
    Except in the absence of a substantial democratic movement things can only change through influencing the influencers.

    The Plumstead Party is a threat because it's a single issue that will capture the vote of thousands of affected people and could - like with the Valley Party - tip the balance for individuals. It won't lose Labour their majority, but having lived in Plumstead for 18 years until 5 years ago, I can testify to the Council effectively forgetting we even existed, except where a revenue opportunity arose or they needed to spend road budget on undoing something they did the year before.

    Parish councils have about as much clout with local councils as my neighbour's cat. They're useful for little more than extremely localised minor issues.
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    rikofold said:

    Riviera said:


    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
    Do you have absolutely no vision in life or even an imagination? Things can be changed!
    I bet your favourite band is Status Quo!
    Except in the absence of a substantial democratic movement things can only change through influencing the influencers.

    The Plumstead Party is a threat because it's a single issue that will capture the vote of thousands of affected people and could - like with the Valley Party - tip the balance for individuals. It won't lose Labour their majority, but having lived in Plumstead for 18 years until 5 years ago, I can testify to the Council effectively forgetting we even existed, except where a revenue opportunity arose or they needed to spend road budget on undoing something they did the year before.

    Parish councils have about as much clout with local councils as my neighbour's cat. They're useful for little more than extremely localised minor issues.
    Thousands? I think not.
    No one I've spoken to intends to vote for them. Whilst I wouldn't presume to say this is an accurate poll sample it does include disaffected Tories, LibDems, Labour and non aligned voters.
    If they're serious they didn't do anything to publicise themselves or make a mark locally.
    They need to start an ongoing campaign for the next election now if they want to get votes.

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    rikofold said:

    Riviera said:


    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
    Do you have absolutely no vision in life or even an imagination? Things can be changed!
    I bet your favourite band is Status Quo!
    Except in the absence of a substantial democratic movement things can only change through influencing the influencers.

    The Plumstead Party is a threat because it's a single issue that will capture the vote of thousands of affected people and could - like with the Valley Party - tip the balance for individuals. It won't lose Labour their majority, but having lived in Plumstead for 18 years until 5 years ago, I can testify to the Council effectively forgetting we even existed, except where a revenue opportunity arose or they needed to spend road budget on undoing something they did the year before.

    Parish councils have about as much clout with local councils as my neighbour's cat. They're useful for little more than extremely localised minor issues.
    Ok Parish Council may not be the best term to use, I'm not talking about Vicar of Dibley type councils. More of a council more concentrated on smaller areas than a whole metropolitan borough. As I said we need a revolution and if I had more time I would lead it. People just accepting that things are as they are and always will be frustrates me immensely when I think about it, so I try not too often.
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    Riviera said:

    rikofold said:

    Riviera said:


    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
    Do you have absolutely no vision in life or even an imagination? Things can be changed!
    I bet your favourite band is Status Quo!
    Except in the absence of a substantial democratic movement things can only change through influencing the influencers.

    The Plumstead Party is a threat because it's a single issue that will capture the vote of thousands of affected people and could - like with the Valley Party - tip the balance for individuals. It won't lose Labour their majority, but having lived in Plumstead for 18 years until 5 years ago, I can testify to the Council effectively forgetting we even existed, except where a revenue opportunity arose or they needed to spend road budget on undoing something they did the year before.

    Parish councils have about as much clout with local councils as my neighbour's cat. They're useful for little more than extremely localised minor issues.
    Ok Parish Council may not be the best term to use, I'm not talking about Vicar of Dibley type councils. More of a council more concentrated on smaller areas than a whole metropolitan borough. As I said we need a revolution and if I had more time I would lead it. People just accepting that things are as they are and always will be frustrates me immensely when I think about it, so I try not too often.
    Can't you be a job share leader of your revolution?
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    edited April 2018
    Riviera said:

    rikofold said:

    Riviera said:


    Riviera said:

    I live in Beckenham, so Tory it is ridiculous, hoping for change but for every block of flats there seems to be two retirement blocks.

    Well there you are, hence my argument that politics should be taken out of local councils. Bromley is as solid Conservative as Greenwich is Labour. We need Parish Councils.
    You really don't. Parish councils have no statutory powers except over allotments. They are dependent for everything else apart from setting a precept on the permission of the higher authorities.

    I live in an area that has a parish council and its main activity is cutting the grass in a field during the summer.

    Proportionality in the electoral system would help, but there is a lot to be said for having an identifiable local councillor who you can vote out.
    Do you have absolutely no vision in life or even an imagination? Things can be changed!
    I bet your favourite band is Status Quo!
    Except in the absence of a substantial democratic movement things can only change through influencing the influencers.

    The Plumstead Party is a threat because it's a single issue that will capture the vote of thousands of affected people and could - like with the Valley Party - tip the balance for individuals. It won't lose Labour their majority, but having lived in Plumstead for 18 years until 5 years ago, I can testify to the Council effectively forgetting we even existed, except where a revenue opportunity arose or they needed to spend road budget on undoing something they did the year before.

    Parish councils have about as much clout with local councils as my neighbour's cat. They're useful for little more than extremely localised minor issues.
    Ok Parish Council may not be the best term to use, I'm not talking about Vicar of Dibley type councils. More of a council more concentrated on smaller areas than a whole metropolitan borough. As I said we need a revolution and if I had more time I would lead it. People just accepting that things are as they are and always will be frustrates me immensely when I think about it, so I try not too often.
    The current London boroughs were set up in 1965 in part because the predecessor councils were considered too small to be economically viable. Recent changes are towards councils combining back office services to make economies of scale.

    Democracy is in tension with economics here. It makes no financial sense to have smaller units running the big ticket items like social services, waste collection and highways. They would just end up banding together again to save money. So you are necessarily talking about extra bureaucracy and extra cost to make things more local.

    Having lived in a London borough where you are likely to have three councillors and a Kent district where there are often EIGHT, in smaller wards (and having served on councils in both situations), and nobody has any idea who is responsible for what, the unitary model makes a lot more sense to me.

    Smaller units may seem more attractive politically but they would come at a cost and I doubt if people would find them any more satisfactory in practice. The reasons councils cannot meet expectations are much more complex than just party politics.
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    Didn't happen for the PP as Labour held the 3 Plumstead wards.
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    Howells said:

    Labour just so happened to plough five million into Plumstead high st a few weeks ago. How convenient!
    That doesn't undo years of neglect. They've failed Plumstead but ultimately they'll get their seat, they always do. Same in Woolwich wards.

    On a side note, 'renew Britain' are on a wind up, ain't they?

    So labour ploughed £5,000,000 into Plumstead. Where?.
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    Plumstead ward results

    Adjekughele, Ese Renew 122
    Cornforth, Angela Labour 2,312
    Fernandez, Mervyn The Plumstead Party 591
    Gillard, Patricia Conservative 419
    Heiner, Andreas Conservative 349
    James, Rajinder Labour 1,970
    Levett, Cheryl Ann The Plumstead Party 609
    Miller, Alison Frances The Plumstead Party 544
    Morrow, Matt Labour 1,916
    Parker-Smith, Felix Conservative 386
    Roberts, Paul Green Party 320
    Smith, Mark Liberal Democrat 122
    Wallace, Dan Liberal Democrat 142
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    I can’t believe someone with a representative Plumstead name like Felix Parker-Smith did so badly.
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    An old school class mate and Charlton fan knocked on my door last week, canvassing for my vote.
    I regretted being unable to vote for someone who was removed from our class, for continually shouting out "oi" in lessons :-)

    Not Gary by any chance?

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    Fair play to them. They did better than I thought.
    If they're serious the hard work starts now for them.
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    clive said:


    Plumstead ward results

    Adjekughele, Ese Renew 122

    Cornforth, Angela Labour 2,312
    Fernandez, Mervyn The Plumstead Party 591
    Gillard, Patricia Conservative 419
    Heiner, Andreas Conservative 349
    James, Rajinder Labour 1,970
    Levett, Cheryl Ann The Plumstead Party 609
    Miller, Alison Frances The Plumstead Party 544
    Morrow, Matt Labour 1,916
    Parker-Smith, Felix Conservative 386
    Roberts, Paul Green Party 320
    Smith, Mark Liberal Democrat 122
    Wallace, Dan Liberal Democrat 142

    Listened to this guy speak last week.
    To see him get the same amount of votes as Mark Smith is truly frightening.
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    To echo what Airman says about shared services above - I work in IT and have been involved in 2 shared services contracts for this, one as contractor (it started well but went downhill once the company involved was bought out by a larger outsourcing company) and one as customer (we have to deal with Lewisham council who have Brent council do their IT). In both cases, the logic is about driving down costs. I don't think it always works that way, as there is a tension between cost and control. Where I work now brought IT in-house even though it cost more because the existing outsourced contracts couldn't deliver the changes they wanted at a cost they were prepared to pay.

    With government policy being to privatise schools, the same effect is happening there with chains of academies taking the back office functions that the councils used to do like payroll, IT, premises management and overpaid chief executives.

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    edited May 2018
    I see that Wendy Perfect got a seat on Bexley Council (labour) by 2 votes.
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    Dansk_Red said:

    I see that Wendy Perfect got a seat on Bexley Council (labour) by 2 votes.

    Beat Charlton fan Ray Sams
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    Great surname
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    My council (Barnet) stayed Conservative with a bigger majority. Indeed they gained some wards that few were expecting them to win. The antisemitism issue was clearly a major factor, plus I don't think the Corbyn style of Labour plays that well either here
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    My council (Barnet) stayed Conservative with a bigger majority. Indeed they gained some wards that few were expecting them to win. The antisemitism issue was clearly a major factor, plus I don't think the Corbyn style of Labour plays that well either here

    Sounds as though there was a big turn out from the Jewish community in Barnet. Reports are that there were Jewish people in Barnet who were in tears on the doorsteps as Momentum sent hundreds of campaigners to follow Owen Jones around on his failed vanity tour. Hard to see how they didn't pick up on the warning signs.

    All-in-all a relatively disappointing night for Labour, given the hype before the election. Talk about supporter numbers and enthusiasm all you want, but it's not translated to meaningful gains.

    Corbyn has galvanised the Labour Party, and contrary to claims earlier in his leadership he has made them an electable force, but the momentum from last years GE hasn't continued and he risks stagnating before he gets a shot at Number 10. Now he needs to ask himself what are Labour going to do differently to ensure they win the next GE?
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    JohnnyH2 said:

    Dansk_Red said:

    I see that Wendy Perfect got a seat on Bexley Council (labour) by 2 votes.

    Beat Charlton fan Ray Sams
    They should have settled it with a penalty shootout or a crossbars challenge!
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    I opened this thinking there was a plan for a promotion party (should it happen) in Plumstead.

    Slightly disappointed......
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    JohnnyH2 said:

    Dansk_Red said:

    I see that Wendy Perfect got a seat on Bexley Council (labour) by 2 votes.

    Beat Charlton fan Ray Sams
    Is Ray related to Colin Sams aka Bexley Boy ?
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