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International Break - March 2018

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  • Nice to see though that they've cleared up the signal given to highlight a decision is going to VAR... the original idea where they held their finger to their ear was ludicrous
  • regardless of what happened in the box I think tarkowski fouls him outside the box so it should be a free kick. presumably the var isn't allowed to look at that though which is a big failing
  • edited March 2018
    I don't think it is.

    And if it is, it shouldn't be - it should be for glaring errors, that wasn't one.
  • Greenie said:

    All the itv pundits have said it's a pen the pictures show it was a pen, how anyone on here can say it wasn't is beyond me.

    Sometimes, just sometimes, people can disagree with pundits. Crazy thought I know.
  • I don't think it is.

    And if it is, it shouldn't be - it should be for glaring errors, that.wasn't one.
    Here's a pundit for you...

  • Greenie said:

    All the itv pundits have said it's a pen the pictures show it was a pen, how anyone on here can say it wasn't is beyond me.

    They're all seasoned professionals.
  • Plenty of pros and ex pros on twitter saying it’s not a pen.

    Still, all hail Lee Dixon.
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  • Gotta say Insigne was best player on the pitch tonight.

    Regardless of VAR

    1-1 fair result imo , England could have been a couple down at the outset and were scrappy at the end.

    Kane might have swung it...
  • Greenie said:

    All the itv pundits have said it's a pen the pictures show it was a pen, how anyone on here can say it wasn't is beyond me.

    Sometimes, just sometimes, people can disagree with pundits. Crazy thought I know.
    Ok suppose you are right and you know more than 3 ex pros (do me a favour) he stood on his foot so it's a foul, wether you like it or not it's a bloody foul so a penalty
    What is so difficult?
  • edited March 2018

    Plenty of pros and ex pros on twitter saying it’s not a pen.

    Still, all hail Lee Dixon.

    Oops - Ian Wright and Lee Dixon change their minds.

    "Right On the grey line of is it clear and obvious"

    HOWEVER if the VAR gives the correct decision, it's fair. If it were clear and obvious, surely it wouldn't need VAR.
  • If anyone wants to watch what happened...

    Never a pen.

    And definitely not a 'clear and obvious error'.
    Ludicrous decision, even worse that the idiot ref looked at VAR. The Italian player was surrounded by 4 England players going no where. There is a hand on the arm, & the Italian player throws themselves on the ground in theatrical fashion. Terrible decision. The referee gave some very soft bookings as well.

    Glad Italy never made the world cup. Whenever the next time an Italian experiences a dive against them, it’s a case of what goes around.
  • I think part of the issue is we have all seen far worse challenges not result in penalties and it's a little jarring when a soft one is given via VAR - it's going to take some time for people to get used to the fact that any little infraction is going to get pulled up from now on. Does it make the game better? I suppose if we want the major injustices to get caught then we just have to accept that the lesser infractions at going to be called out as well - the precident has now been set - so I expect every corner where a defender tugs a shirt should result in a penalty.
  • edited March 2018

    I think part of the issue is we have all seen far worse challenges not result in penalties and it's a little jarring when a soft one is given via VAR - it's going to take some time for people to get used to the fact that any little infraction is going to get pulled up from now on. Does it make the game better? I suppose if we want the major injustices to get caught then we just have to accept that the lesser infractions at going to be called out as well - the precident has now been set - so I expect every corner where a defender tugs a shirt should result in a penalty.

    This has always been a foul anywhere else on the pitch, so it should also be in the box. Once players are picked up on it regularly, they would stop doing it and thus the number of penalties would revert back to the current level.
  • edited March 2018
    Greenie said:

    Greenie said:

    All the itv pundits have said it's a pen the pictures show it was a pen, how anyone on here can say it wasn't is beyond me.

    Sometimes, just sometimes, people can disagree with pundits. Crazy thought I know.
    Ok suppose you are right and you know more than 3 ex pros (do me a favour) he stood on his foot so it's a foul, wether you like it or not it's a bloody foul so a penalty
    What is so difficult?
    Those three ex pros. As others have said, plenty of others on Twitter etc who disagree.

    He started going down after minimal contact from Young if you look. Was that a penalty too? Any contact in the box is now? May as well dive at people's feet and hope they can't stop their run.
  • The thing is you can't have half a foul. Once the ref watches the pictures and sees Tarkowski stand on the other bloke's foot, is he meant to not give it just because it wasn't intentional? How much of his foot does he have stand on for it to be an "obvious" mistake?

    Once you see a foul on replay, you have to award the penalty.

    This is what all our CL sofa experts can't grasp, it was a foul....end of.
  • I think part of the issue is we have all seen far worse challenges not result in penalties and it's a little jarring when a soft one is given via VAR - it's going to take some time for people to get used to the fact that any little infraction is going to get pulled up from now on. Does it make the game better? I suppose if we want the major injustices to get caught then we just have to accept that the lesser infractions at going to be called out as well - the precident has now been set - so I expect every corner where a defender tugs a shirt should result in a penalty.

    Gotta agree with this really

    Ireland playing France ( Henry) would agree. With THAT handball...
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  • "Trips or attempts to trip" = a foul I always thought? He didn't trip him, he was already on the way down. And it was an accident not an attempt to trip.
  • edited March 2018
    Greenie said:

    The thing is you can't have half a foul. Once the ref watches the pictures and sees Tarkowski stand on the other bloke's foot, is he meant to not give it just because it wasn't intentional? How much of his foot does he have stand on for it to be an "obvious" mistake?

    Once you see a foul on replay, you have to award the penalty.

    This is what all our CL sofa experts can't grasp, it was a foul....end of.
    Says you as a sofa expert...

    Now you said 'end of' though I'm totally convinced.
  • That felt a bit like an "Umpire's call" type of decision in cricket, when the benefit goes to the official's original decision...
  • edited March 2018

    That felt a bit like an "Umpire's call" type of decision in cricket, when the benefit goes to the official's original decision...

    The difference with the cricket is that you have one decision made by an umpire and a second decision made by a computer.

    With football and VAR, the first decision is made by the referee and the second decision is made by the referee. It was the referee's call was to change his own decision.
  • Greenie said:

    The thing is you can't have half a foul. Once the ref watches the pictures and sees Tarkowski stand on the other bloke's foot, is he meant to not give it just because it wasn't intentional? How much of his foot does he have stand on for it to be an "obvious" mistake?

    Once you see a foul on replay, you have to award the penalty.

    This is what all our CL sofa experts can't grasp, it was a foul....end of.
    Says you as a sofa expert....
    You really don't get it do you ?
  • It's the same issue with handballs though isn't it Neil - at what point can a video replay show intent? and does intent actually matter in the same way as a handball regarding a trip?
  • That felt a bit like an "Umpire's call" type of decision in cricket, when the benefit goes to the official's original decision...

    The difference with the cricket is that you have one decision made by an umpire and a second decision made by a computer.

    With football and VAR, the first decision is made by the referee and the second decision is made by the referee. It was the referee's call was to change his own decision.
    The way the sports use the technology is different, but in both the aim is to eradicate the clear howler. The original decision not to award the penalty wasn't definitely wrong, it was probably/possibly wrong.

    The question then is how many of these close penalty calls will the referee check each match? In this case the ball went out of play. What would have happened if Butland had picked the ball up and play continued?

  • In terms of the performance, I only turned over after Bake Off, but England seemed to be okish, but worse after the subs, whereas Italy clearly improved with their changes.
  • edited March 2018
    Pages 4, 5, 6 & 7: https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf

    Seems pretty clear to me that Tarkowski caught the man, not the ball. Thus it was a foul and penalty should be awarded.

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  • Greenie said:

    Greenie said:

    The thing is you can't have half a foul. Once the ref watches the pictures and sees Tarkowski stand on the other bloke's foot, is he meant to not give it just because it wasn't intentional? How much of his foot does he have stand on for it to be an "obvious" mistake?

    Once you see a foul on replay, you have to award the penalty.

    This is what all our CL sofa experts can't grasp, it was a foul....end of.
    Says you as a sofa expert....
    You really don't get it do you ?
    I get that it's an opinion rather than a fact and that you having a patronising attitude doesn't make your opinion right.
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