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The Rooney Rule

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  • CAFCsayer said:

    PaddyP17 said:

    CAFCsayer said:

    Once again the FA completely miss the point.

    The first thing they should do is reduce the cost of gaining coaching qualifications in the country, making it more affordable for all whether you’re white, black or green. Better affordability would mean a greater percentage of minority representation, especially in inner city football associations like London FA.

    Nail on the head... The Rooney rule is inherently racist
    Hahahaha because it discriminates against white people?!

    I'm going to have an arbitrary situation here so bear with me. Say there are 10 people to be interviewed for a job. Previously, all 10 were white. Now it's 9 white people and 1 non-white. We are seeing a 10% decrease in white candidacy, but an [infinite]% increase in BAME candidacy. That's still overwhelmingly in favour of the white people.

    And yet, trying to level the playing field is racist. Fucking lol
    PaddyP17 said:

    DPFC said:

    Surely the whole BAME exercise is racist as it dsicriminates against possibly interviewing the best candidates. if followed to its logical conculsion why not just appoint the first striped tall short disabled multigendered person who has done a coaching badge

    It's not like there's a cap on the number of people that can be interviewed.

    And how is that the logical conclusion? I would have thought the aim (rather than logical conclusion) is to ensure an equal playing field. Because there sure as hell isn't one now.
    You've literally just argued against your own point... Interview the them too, don't set a quota
    Fair enough. The quota is ONE person.

    That is 1 out of every X people. People seem to think it's to the exclusion of equally-qualified white candidates when it clearly isn't.
  • I think the Rooney Rule would be a great thing in football. The ratio of black managers to black players is appalling. I'd go further and make it mandatory that a significant percentage of youth and assistant first team coaches were also black.
  • MrOneLung said:

    image

    Plymouth Argyle full back trials.
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.
  • MrOneLung said:

    image

    Plymouth Argyle full back trials.
    Seems they all look up to their coach.
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  • No downside to be fair
  • charltonJ said:

    No downside to be fair

    there would be if Sol Campbell gets the England job
  • charltonJ said:

    No downside to be fair

    there would be if Sol Campbell gets the England job
    Surely that would be a fantastically progressive move and one in the eye for the white supremacists that head up the FA?

    It's this sort of positive discrimination that will ultimately lead to fairer appointments and the breaking down of the systematic racism that emanates from white people, whether consciously or otherwise.
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
  • charltonJ said:

    No downside to be fair

    there would be if Sol Campbell gets the England job
    Surely that would be a fantastically progressive move and one in the eye for the white supremacists that head up the FA?

    It's this sort of positive discrimination that will ultimately lead to fairer appointments and the breaking down of the systematic racism that emanates from white people, whether consciously or otherwise.
    STOP TALKING SENSE AND MAKING ME AGREE WITH YOU DAMNIT
  • EastStand said:

    charltonJ said:

    No downside to be fair

    there would be if Sol Campbell gets the England job
    Surely that would be a fantastically progressive move and one in the eye for the white supremacists that head up the FA?

    It's this sort of positive discrimination that will ultimately lead to fairer appointments and the breaking down of the systematic racism that emanates from white people, whether consciously or otherwise.
    STOP TALKING SENSE AND MAKING ME AGREE WITH YOU DAMNIT
    So you want Sol Campbell as the England manager?
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
  • EastStand said:

    charltonJ said:

    No downside to be fair

    there would be if Sol Campbell gets the England job
    Surely that would be a fantastically progressive move and one in the eye for the white supremacists that head up the FA?

    It's this sort of positive discrimination that will ultimately lead to fairer appointments and the breaking down of the systematic racism that emanates from white people, whether consciously or otherwise.
    STOP TALKING SENSE AND MAKING ME AGREE WITH YOU DAMNIT
    So you want Sol Campbell as the England manager?
    Apart from that bit ;-)

    I want anyone to feel like they could be England manager - if they work hard, have talent and the right qualifications. Whatever their ethnicity, gender or sexuality (or height).

    If forcing the FA to interview non-white people for every job position available helps, then hell yeah, let's do that.
  • EastStand said:

    EastStand said:

    charltonJ said:

    No downside to be fair

    there would be if Sol Campbell gets the England job
    Surely that would be a fantastically progressive move and one in the eye for the white supremacists that head up the FA?

    It's this sort of positive discrimination that will ultimately lead to fairer appointments and the breaking down of the systematic racism that emanates from white people, whether consciously or otherwise.
    STOP TALKING SENSE AND MAKING ME AGREE WITH YOU DAMNIT
    So you want Sol Campbell as the England manager?
    Apart from that bit ;-)

    I want anyone to feel like they could be England manager - if they work hard, have talent and the right qualifications. Whatever their ethnicity, gender or sexuality (or height).

    If forcing the FA to interview non-white people for every job position available helps, then hell yeah, let's do that.
    I think you may have misunderstood my post.
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  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
    I think this is one of those instances where you're supposed to just accept the statement and not ask questions.

    Historical racism in the game automatically means that BAME candidates are ignored, as opposed to not being qualified or having the required experience that the hiring club highlight as being a prerequisite of any applicant that is to be successful, in favour of a white man.
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
    Handily I found some interview notes from a well known team in the Championship

    "Decided to give the job to (insert name of well known, over the hill old white manager who inexplicably gets job after job) because I just don't like darkies"

    Will that do?
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
    Handily I found some interview notes from a well known team in the Championship

    "Decided to give the job to (insert name of well known, over the hill old white manager who inexplicably gets job after job) because I just don't like darkies"

    Will that do?
    Can you put a picture up of the notes or direct the rest of us to the site that holds them?

    Thanks.
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
    Handily I found some interview notes from a well known team in the Championship

    "Decided to give the job to (insert name of well known, over the hill old white manager who inexplicably gets job after job) because I just don't like darkies"

    Will that do?
    Can you put a picture up of the notes or direct the rest of us to the site that holds them?

    Thanks.
    Simple google will do. Football chairman are well known for documenting racist and border-line illegal hiring policies and then putting those documents in easily accessible public places online.
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
    Handily I found some interview notes from a well known team in the Championship

    "Decided to give the job to (insert name of well known, over the hill old white manager who inexplicably gets job after job) because I just don't like darkies"

    Will that do?
    Can you put a picture up of the notes or direct the rest of us to the site that holds them?

    Thanks.
    Simple google will do. Football chairman are well known for documenting racist and border-line illegal hiring policies and then putting those documents in easily accessible public places online.
    I've tried but to no avail.

    Whack the link up so we can put this one to bed, please.

    Again, thanks.
  • image

    Don't worry, I got what you were getting at :smile:
  • It isn't even necessarily overt racism that this is hoping to solve. People naturally gravitate towards people that look like they do. This goes for skin colour, gender, even the way you dress. Hence why in courts potential jurors are sometimes sent back to the waiting room on the basis of how they look (ie a smartly dressed white man may not be chosen to serve on a jury of a homeless non-white).
  • .

    image

    is that Richard Murray?
  • In some instance it’ll be the most pointless exercise and a waste of time and possibly embarrassing for the BAME person, like they’re the just the “token” interview during the process.

    At least they'll get to the interview. I'm sure you can understand that qualified BAME candidates are frequently ignored in a lot of cases due to ongoing prejudice - racial bias hasn't gone away.

    Trying to do something about prejudice isn't a pointless exercise unless nobody wants change.

    Football has had a history of racism - numerous examples can be given - and it would be foolish to pretend this has all disappeared.

    Ultimately you want the best candidate for the job and people from ALL backgrounds to be given equal access.
    Please show me a few of the numerous examples in which a capable BAME person has been ignored for a white person in a managerial appointment in football and I may agree with you?
    I'd have to ask the FA and individual clubs for all the ethnic monitoring they've done when it comes to interviewing candidates for managerial appointments.

    You don't seem to think there's a problem with racism in football so fair enough. The FA has taken the same attitude up to now but at least there seems now to be recognition that change is needed.

    If any changes open up access and make it fairer then what's your problem? Providing the best candidate gets the job then what's the issue? If the best candidate doesn't get the job becausr of their skin colour or ethnic background then is that something to be celebrated?


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