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Mavididi re-signs on loan until end of season (ed. Italy beckons)

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  • SDAddick said:

    I am sure @MKDinpeace would agree that we should always be wary of believing these stories too quickly. However one aspect of what he reports fits all too well with what others have reported, that he can seem to be a bit too matey with his players.

    I would like to see KR stay on, but if there is any truth in this at all, somebody needs to get hold of him and review this season's injury fiasco with him, because it has been a fiasco.

    That said, I still believe that RD/KM will have been cutting the resources for medical and fitness, because its just another cost line on the spreadsheet. That will also have played a role.

    Yeah all good points.

    I'm a really big believer that it's hard to ascertain fitness regimes from the outside. And the link between lack of fitness and injuries is not exact.

    It's interesting to hear about the alleged problems with Robinson's training regime at MKDons, and thanks for that @MKDinpeace, the insight is greatly appreciated.

    It does feel like we run a fair amount less, and certainly press far less, than we did at the beginning of the season, and that all around, especially in the last couple months, we've looked more fatigued. But there's also tactical reasons for not pressing as much, and if there's one thing we know about this league, it's that it's an absolute slog, so I would absolutely expect the players to slow down as the season goes on.

    Lastly, how much of the fitness work and levels are down to the manager, and how much are down to the fitness and sports science team? Because Karl Robinson, I pressume, is a man with an education up to 16 who has of course spent a lot of time in football, but I doubt has an extensive medical or scientific knowledge. He probably hand-picked his staff, but I think there's more blame to go around than just blaming Robinson.

    Actual final thing, Neilson was at Hearts when Tony Watt was there. Tony Watt looked a stone overweight and was apparently completely unfit when he came back early from his loan last year. So that's...interesting.
    It’s extremely hard to do any kind of fitness training during the season to improve fitness levels.

    The medical and sports science staff have a battery of tests that they perform on a regular basis to see fitness levels, strength and flexibility levels in specific areas in comparison to each players relative baseline which would have been conducted in pre season or transferred within data from old/parent club to us.

    It is even harder to do any kind of real fitness testing and training when recovery is so important now with the limited time that they have between games. Therefore, any time they do have needs to be prioritised wisely and that is for more recovery, technical and tactical. There will be fitness elements added into it, and there will be periods within the year that testing will commence but that is decided with periodisation in mind and the load of training and games that we have.

    Robinson is also very clued up with the scientific side of the game. He might not know as much as some, but certainly knows more than many.
  • I suspect if you've got dodgy hamstrings, you've got dodgy hamstrings. Anyone who sprints and has a history of hamstrings is likely to suffer again. And once you've done them a couple of times or even once as seriously as Mavididi's first one, you're in trouble.

    It's likely got nothing to do with Charlton's training regime. Mavididi just struggles when he has to play more than a cameo and when the muscle starts to get fatigued later in games, it becomes very susceptible to tearing.

    I did a 6" x 1" tear in mine a few years ago, whilst sprinting on the over-lap. I then spent a Winter training with specialists in rehab/fitness and got fit ...only to tear it again first game (cricket) of the season! I did the following Winter with the same specialists who tweaked the regime and eventually got me to an amazing level of fitness (it was murderous but I was sprinting like I was 20, at the age of 40) But it tore again early in the following cricket season, when I was just pushing off for a comfortable single late in a game. Since then, I've counted 10 minor tears on each hamstring and one big one last year fielding last year (my entire hamstring went black....which was a first!)

    Sadly, I don't see how Mavididi is going to break the cycle, unless he is used as a sub or is routinely taken off at 65-70 minutes. Or he changes his style of play and becomes more of a centre-forward, without any chasing back.

    PS: I don't know what they do for hamstring rehab these days but back then we were harnessed to a special running machine and walked backwards against the flow of the machine, in bursts, sometimes against a gradient. One amazing bloke, a GB bobsleigh man, was recovering from a snapped Achilles tendon and he was on that machine for 3 one hour long session per day (he was trying to get fit for the Winter Olympics) and he could sprint backwards!!!!
  • Sage said:

    SDAddick said:

    I am sure @MKDinpeace would agree that we should always be wary of believing these stories too quickly. However one aspect of what he reports fits all too well with what others have reported, that he can seem to be a bit too matey with his players.

    I would like to see KR stay on, but if there is any truth in this at all, somebody needs to get hold of him and review this season's injury fiasco with him, because it has been a fiasco.

    That said, I still believe that RD/KM will have been cutting the resources for medical and fitness, because its just another cost line on the spreadsheet. That will also have played a role.

    Yeah all good points.

    I'm a really big believer that it's hard to ascertain fitness regimes from the outside. And the link between lack of fitness and injuries is not exact.

    It's interesting to hear about the alleged problems with Robinson's training regime at MKDons, and thanks for that @MKDinpeace, the insight is greatly appreciated.

    It does feel like we run a fair amount less, and certainly press far less, than we did at the beginning of the season, and that all around, especially in the last couple months, we've looked more fatigued. But there's also tactical reasons for not pressing as much, and if there's one thing we know about this league, it's that it's an absolute slog, so I would absolutely expect the players to slow down as the season goes on.

    Lastly, how much of the fitness work and levels are down to the manager, and how much are down to the fitness and sports science team? Because Karl Robinson, I pressume, is a man with an education up to 16 who has of course spent a lot of time in football, but I doubt has an extensive medical or scientific knowledge. He probably hand-picked his staff, but I think there's more blame to go around than just blaming Robinson.

    Actual final thing, Neilson was at Hearts when Tony Watt was there. Tony Watt looked a stone overweight and was apparently completely unfit when he came back early from his loan last year. So that's...interesting.
    It’s extremely hard to do any kind of fitness training during the season to improve fitness levels.

    The medical and sports science staff have a battery of tests that they perform on a regular basis to see fitness levels, strength and flexibility levels in specific areas in comparison to each players relative baseline which would have been conducted in pre season or transferred within data from old/parent club to us.

    It is even harder to do any kind of real fitness testing and training when recovery is so important now with the limited time that they have between games. Therefore, any time they do have needs to be prioritised wisely and that is for more recovery, technical and tactical. There will be fitness elements added into it, and there will be periods within the year that testing will commence but that is decided with periodisation in mind and the load of training and games that we have.

    Robinson is also very clued up with the scientific side of the game. He might not know as much as some, but certainly knows more than many.
    Yes all good points. I think my post read as being more critical of, and condescending toward Robinson and his knowledge than I intended it to be. The point I was trying to make was simply that he's not a doctor or a scientist, and thus after a certain point he's only as good as those who advise him.

    You're also absolutely right about doing fitness work during the season. It's really a matter of managing recovery and knocks. And perhaps that should be called into question, but again really, really hard to determine these things from the outside.
  • some of the injury record might be something to do with recruiting injury prone players?
  • edited February 2018
    He's had 2 injuries, one long term and one medium layoff. Hardly prone. Both occurred here.
  • Just noticed he's out of contract in May. Given his Champ form for Preston was unremarkable, might he take a pag-cut to join us?
  • Just noticed he's out of contract in May. Given his Champ form for Preston was unremarkable, might he take a pag-cut to join us?

    Be a top signing on a free that would. Have a feeling he will be snapped up by a champ side.
  • Like others have said, he didn't do particularly well/get much of a chance at Preston. Imagine a few Champ teams might take a chance, but I think we would stand a good chance of signing him, even in League 1.

    Not sure what the chances of him getting a new deal at Arsenal are.
  • Arsenal rate him but they were disappointed in his spell at Preston which may have put him down a little. Doesn’t necessarily mean he will get a new contract there.

    Robinson said a couple of weeks before he left about being unable to make inroads to sign Mavididi due to the ongoing takeover. If we can get promoted this season, he is still very young and raw enough to continue to develop and become a very good player.

    Would try to make signing Stephy a priority this summer alongside keeping Fosu.
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  • Anyone know his wages? Read Dasilva was on £18k so out of reach even if Chelsea didn't rate him.
  • Pretty sure neither Dasilva or Mavididi are on 18k.
  • Dazzler21 said:

    Pretty sure neither Dasilva or Mavididi are on 18k.

    Wouldnt surprise me if Chelsea are paying him that though. Easy well to keep hold of and stockpile their youth players
  • edited April 2018
    The big clubs sign all their youth players on new contracts unless there's little to no chance of them making it. Didn't Spurs keep Obika until he was about 25?
  • Dazzler21 said:

    Pretty sure neither Dasilva or Mavididi are on 18k.

    I’d suspect Dasilva is.
  • Sage said:

    Arsenal rate him but they were disappointed in his spell at Preston which may have put him down a little. Doesn’t necessarily mean he will get a new contract there.

    Robinson said a couple of weeks before he left about being unable to make inroads to sign Mavididi due to the ongoing takeover. If we can get promoted this season, he is still very young and raw enough to continue to develop and become a very good player.

    Would try to make signing Stephy a priority this summer alongside keeping Fosu.

    Agree with both, I struggle to see Arsenal parting with him, especially given the form he's shown for us. England youth international who clearly has a lot of ability. They'll probably be more than happy to loan him out for a couple more years to see how he matures.
  • if he is available just sign him up - him and fosu - both r absolute top draw
  • edited April 2018
    .
  • SDAddick said:

    Sage said:

    Arsenal rate him but they were disappointed in his spell at Preston which may have put him down a little. Doesn’t necessarily mean he will get a new contract there.

    Robinson said a couple of weeks before he left about being unable to make inroads to sign Mavididi due to the ongoing takeover. If we can get promoted this season, he is still very young and raw enough to continue to develop and become a very good player.

    Would try to make signing Stephy a priority this summer alongside keeping Fosu.

    Agree with both, I struggle to see Arsenal parting with him, especially given the form he's shown for us. England youth international who clearly has a lot of ability. They'll probably be more than happy to loan him out for a couple more years to see how he matures.
    PL clubs, particularly those at the top of the tree prefer to buy in players than push their own through unless they turn out to be exceptional (a la Harry Kane) or there’s a gap that suddenly needs filling. Squad sizes are limited and the cost of not getting it right in the PL means there’s little room for taking a chance on pushing through a youngster. If they are out on loan then it’s likely they’ve already got one foot out of the door but if we go up I can see the benefit for Arsenal in leaving him with us on loan to see how he develops.
  • Sign him up
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  • I can't see Arsenal letting him go. From his point of view if he re-signs for Arsenal they will pay him far more than we can afford, and will then loan him out to get some match time anyway! If we go up then we might stand a chance of loaning both him and Dasilva
  • I would think that Chelsea and arsenal will be looking to loan out Mavadidi and Da Silva to championship sides next season to continue their progress.
    So unless we win promotion this season we will not be seeing them again.
  • SDAddick said:

    Sage said:

    Arsenal rate him but they were disappointed in his spell at Preston which may have put him down a little. Doesn’t necessarily mean he will get a new contract there.

    Robinson said a couple of weeks before he left about being unable to make inroads to sign Mavididi due to the ongoing takeover. If we can get promoted this season, he is still very young and raw enough to continue to develop and become a very good player.

    Would try to make signing Stephy a priority this summer alongside keeping Fosu.

    Agree with both, I struggle to see Arsenal parting with him, especially given the form he's shown for us. England youth international who clearly has a lot of ability. They'll probably be more than happy to loan him out for a couple more years to see how he matures.
    PL clubs, particularly those at the top of the tree prefer to buy in players than push their own through unless they turn out to be exceptional (a la Harry Kane) or there’s a gap that suddenly needs filling. Squad sizes are limited and the cost of not getting it right in the PL means there’s little room for taking a chance on pushing through a youngster. If they are out on loan then it’s likely they’ve already got one foot out of the door but if we go up I can see the benefit for Arsenal in leaving him with us on loan to see how he develops.
    Sullay Kaikai is perfect example of this...

    22-years old now, has played nine times for Palace (only three times in the League) yet has five loan clubs

    He really needs to move on this summer to progress with his career!!
  • Crazy deal
  • Good for him, that’s some move
  • It’s a really weird one, but on form and fit I thought he was a hell of a player at our level so could probably do a decent job for Juve B
  • I don't think he's suited to English football. Wish him well, he did okay for us just a shame he picked up a few injuries
  • His agent has played a blinder.

    Good luck to him but I'm not sure he'll ever be tearing up Serie A even if he does avoid tearing up his hamstring
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