Getting into simplification of history again here: Madrid held out against the fascist coup even after Barcelona fell and was subjected to a long siege up until the end of the Civil War. The selective interpretation of Madrid = fascist Spain oppressing Catalonia is exactly what the CUP have sought to promote and it doesn't bear much scrutiny, at least until the Guarda Civil waded in today and put that idea back into people's minds.
Getting into simplification of history again here: Madrid held out against the fascist coup even after Barcelona fell and was subjected to a long siege. The selective interpretation of Madrid = fascist Spain oppressing Catalonia is exactly what the CUP have sought to promote and it doesn't bear much scrutiny, at least until the Guarda Civil waded in today and put that idea back into people's minds.
I would say the Guardia Civil have done far more than that today and have probably reinforced the idea!
out of interest does anyone know if Menorca (Minorca) is voting? they were the one of the last (if not the last) to fall under franco during the cival war. they still class themselves as Catalonians.
The Balearic Islands are their own autonomous community but like the Valencian and Aragon regions are closely linked to Catalonia, all sharing variations of the same yellow and red striped Serenya flag as one of the historical regions of Spain
Getting into simplification of history again here: Madrid held out against the fascist coup even after Barcelona fell and was subjected to a long siege up until the end of the Civil War. The selective interpretation of Madrid = fascist Spain oppressing Catalonia is exactly what the CUP have sought to promote and it doesn't bear much scrutiny, at least until the Guarda Civil waded in today and put that idea back into people's minds.
Fair enough. I don't think anyone is saying that Madrid did not resist the military coup. It did receive the patronage of Franco and his cronies and Barcelona / Catalonia was punished economically following the civil war until Franco's death and was always seen as a hotbed of insurrection.
Just got home to follow events on TV and shocked to see the lack of coverage on the mainstream channels. Media blackout here? Luckily can follow events online but I find this pretty sinister as well.
Lucky indeed. Government blocking internet to try and further hamper the voting.
Totally agree with Turkey being vilified for these sort of tactics, further distancing any hope they have of joining EU. Spain should now be similarly condemned for what they are doing.
out of interest does anyone know if Menorca (Minorca) is voting? they were the one of the last (if not the last) to fall under franco during the cival war. they still class themselves as CataloniansGermans.
But on the other hand Catalonia and Barcelona particularly has been the recipient of huge amounts of national investment (the 92 Olympics and the Renfe AVE connections for example) so this idea of it as being some kind of oppressed and marginalised area is very odd. If anyone is oppressed in Catalonia it is someone going into a hospital and not being able to be treated as they can't speak Catalan. The area enjoys massive autonomy but still seems to be able to play on this victim narrative which is behind the separatist movement.
In reality there is a lot more concern over what is really behind the independence movement: it is mainly motivated by wanting to save money and not send more to the poorer regions of Spain, which is fair enough but I wish they'd be honest about it and not keep going on about being oppressed.
Just got home to follow events on TV and shocked to see the lack of coverage on the mainstream channels. Media blackout here? Luckily can follow events online but I find this pretty sinister as well.
Lucky indeed. Government blocking internet to try and further hamper the voting.
Totally agree with Turkey being vilified for these sort of tactics, further distancing any hope they have of joining EU. Spain should now be similarly condemned for what they are doing.
Using military tactics against their own population could lead to suspension from the EU.
Doubt the EU will dare go that far but it is an option.
Most people, especially Catalonian officials, know what the Spanish police are like, so I question they asked the public to stage these sittings. I can't help but think that the people have been played a bit here...
... no I'm not that I'm defending what the police have done, or saying it's right.
La Liga apparently wouldn't let Barca postpone the game and threatened to deduct them 3 points for not fulfilling the fixture. Barca therefore asked to play it behind closed doors because of the threat of pitch invasions from protestors.
@CharltonMadrid . Have you got cable? I've got movistar and there is a rolling 24 hour coverage on the catalan news channel, TV3, and La Primera are still covering it with other nees last time I looked. Interesting seeing the view from outside here so thanks for all the twitter posts. I'll be interested to see how this plays out in Madrid on monday, and it will certainly propell a lot of middle ground voters into the Independence vote. I still agree with @i_b_b_o_r_g . This was always going to face a police shut down. Why take children to vote? The Independents have won a propaganda victory here, and knew there would be a reaction. A bit like watching someone dive for a penalty and get it, and the celebrate conning the ref.
The action of the police in these videos is absolutely shocking. There will be revenge actions of some sort in the future however they mask their faces. Today has changed a lot of things, and in terms of apportioning blame it will be wide ranging.
Some pretty shocking coverage there. Genuinely wouldn't expect that from a country like Spain, perhaps I'm being naive in that though. I clearly don't really know anything about Spain / Catalonia issues.
Nothing I hate more in life though than bullies and seeing those police act in such a way against weak targets is tough to watch.
Ps. Please don't derail this thread. Stick to the issue. Sick to be honest of grown adults that seem to find it impossible not to make themselves look an idiot arguing in an Internet forum
Some posters have tried linking this to the EU. They were wrong to do so.
However things have moved on. The EU now HAS to get involved. One of the EU27 is quite possibly heading for civil war. The EU prides itself in it's vision of one nation called Europe. They need to start earning their massive salaries.
Some posters have tried linking this to the EU. They were wrong to do so.
However things have moved on. The EU now HAS to get involved. One of the EU27 is quite possibly heading for civil war. The EU prides itself in it's vision of one nation called Europe. They need to start earning their massive salaries.
I'm not sure how it would be possible for the EU to do nothing about this, pretty clear violation of Article 11.
This was always going to face a police shut down. Why take children to vote? The Independents have won a propaganda victory here, and knew there would be a reaction.
If they knew the police would beat elderly voters, what does that say about Spain?
Comments
Totally agree with Turkey being vilified for these sort of tactics, further distancing any hope they have of joining EU. Spain should now be similarly condemned for what they are doing.
In reality there is a lot more concern over what is really behind the independence movement: it is mainly motivated by wanting to save money and not send more to the poorer regions of Spain, which is fair enough but I wish they'd be honest about it and not keep going on about being oppressed.
Doubt the EU will dare go that far but it is an option.
... no I'm not that I'm defending what the police have done, or saying it's right.
Interesting seeing the view from outside here so thanks for all the twitter posts. I'll be interested to see how this plays out in Madrid on monday, and it will certainly propell a lot of middle ground voters into the Independence vote.
I still agree with @i_b_b_o_r_g . This was always going to face a police shut down. Why take children to vote? The Independents have won a propaganda victory here, and knew there would be a reaction. A bit like watching someone dive for a penalty and get it, and the celebrate conning the ref.
There will be revenge actions of some sort in the future however they mask their faces.
Today has changed a lot of things, and in terms of apportioning blame it will be wide ranging.
Nothing I hate more in life though than bullies and seeing those police act in such a way against weak targets is tough to watch.
Ps. Please don't derail this thread. Stick to the issue. Sick to be honest of grown adults that seem to find it impossible not to make themselves look an idiot arguing in an Internet forum
However things have moved on. The EU now HAS to get involved. One of the EU27 is quite possibly heading for civil war. The EU prides itself in it's vision of one nation called Europe.
They need to start earning their massive salaries.