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Catalan Independence vote

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  • edited September 2017

    Dazzler21 said:

    Good luck to them, whatever the majority wants should happen.

    The majority of Catalan, or Spain? If you're going to break up a country, everyone in it should have a say, IMO.
    Spain. I agree with you there.
  • The legacy of the Spanish civil war hangs over this issue, where the Catalans were essentially on the losing side against Franco's Fascists. I understand where regional yearning might spring from, but feel sad that Catalonia feel the need to respond by reviving their own faux fascist/spirit.
    The late Jo Cox said in her maiden speech in Parliament said that there is more that unites us than divides us, but she was murdered by a Fascist.
  • I think Kent should be independent. We were the only part of England not conquered by William of Falaise after all.
  • cfgs said:

    I think Kent should be independent. We were the only part of England not conquered by William of Falaise after all.

    Bollocks to that I don't want to share a country with those bastard Kentish men. Men of Kent demand their own country.
  • Dazzler21 said:

    Good luck to them, whatever the majority wants should happen.

    The majority of Catalan, or Spain? If you're going to break up a country, everyone in it should have a say, IMO.
    in this case i agree. if the Catalonians were being treated unfairly by their Madrid 'masters' then an overall vote across the whole of Spain might not be such a good idea as the minority who are most affected would not get there voice heard.
  • If areas of Catalonia/Catalunya want to be independent from Spain perhaps they could join Andorra, which is already has Catalan as its official language.
  • Saw a Catalan 'national' team play a (non FIFA recognised) game against Argentina at the Camp Nou a few years ago. Fantastic game and fantastic atmosphere. I look forward to them playing a Yorkshire XI same venue soon...
  • edited September 2017
    Presumably if Catalunya declared independence then they would have to re-apply to join the EU?
  • Unsurprising that the Spanish government don't want to recognise the democratically expressed will of the people to be governed how they seem fit given that they're still claiming Gibraltar.
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  • se9addick said:

    Unsurprising that the Spanish government don't want to recognise the democratically expressed will of the people to be governed how they seem fit given that they're still claiming Gibraltar.

    That's because they are hypocrites.

    They seem to conveniently forget Melilla and Ceuta in Morocco, or Llivia in France
  • I wonder if some of the people say yes to this, would be saying the same thing if it was Northern Ireland.
  • I wonder if some of the people say yes to this, would be saying the same thing if it was Northern Ireland.

    If the people of Northern Ireland (or Scotland, Wales or England) held a referendum and voted for independence or some other constitutional arrangement I don't think anyone would deny them. I also don't think if the people of one of those countries wanted a referendum that the UK government would behave in the way that the Spanish are, in fact we know for a fact that they wouldn't.
  • Addickted said:

    se9addick said:

    Unsurprising that the Spanish government don't want to recognise the democratically expressed will of the people to be governed how they seem fit given that they're still claiming Gibraltar.

    That's because they are hypocrites.

    They seem to conveniently forget Melilla and Ceuta in Morocco, or Llivia in France
    Didnt know about Llivia - fascinating story.
  • The main problem is that since this is not a real vote, most people won't vote as they don't recognise the legitimacy of it. It will virtually only be pro-Yes voters casting a vote so the 'result' is a foregone conclusion but pretty meaninglessness.
  • I don't understand this nationalism growing everywhere. I am all in favour of cultural differences and variety, and a glorious pride in one's culture, but when those differences are hi-jacked into a political cause I find it quite disturbing.
    As a Londoner I probably have more understanding and empathy for a Berliner, or residents of Shanghai or Glasgow than things I have in common with a farming community in Kent.
  • se9addick said:

    I wonder if some of the people say yes to this, would be saying the same thing if it was Northern Ireland.

    If the people of Northern Ireland (or Scotland, Wales or England) held a referendum and voted for independence or some other constitutional arrangement I don't think anyone would deny them. I also don't think if the people of one of those countries wanted a referendum that the UK government would behave in the way that the Spanish are, in fact we know for a fact that they wouldn't.
    If this did happen, I wonder how the people who lost the vote would react?
  • se9addick said:

    I wonder if some of the people say yes to this, would be saying the same thing if it was Northern Ireland.

    If the people of Northern Ireland (or Scotland, Wales or England) held a referendum and voted for independence or some other constitutional arrangement I don't think anyone would deny them. I also don't think if the people of one of those countries wanted a referendum that the UK government would behave in the way that the Spanish are, in fact we know for a fact that they wouldn't.
    Not sure if that's the case, with May into the DUP for £2bm.
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  • Barcelona v Las Palmas has been called off, 80k who would have been in the Nou camp can join the demos
  • My son drew comparisons between this and the Kurdish referendum - The Iraqi's let the Kurds go ahead and just ignored them, the Spanish have only intensified the situation with their over the top actions.
  • I don't see anyone coming out of this with much credit, but the independetistas have scored a visual win. Today was only about provocation. Only the yes vote are out (and in big numbers) but the reaction is heavy handed, apart from the Mossos, who are refusing to act. The fallout begins tomorrow, as I'm sure everone will declare they have won, and the Independence group are going to call for strikes and protest. At some point, these clowns will all have to sit down and talk, but it'll probably need a few dead protestors to make that happen, and the bad blood will drag on for years.
  • Initiating a proper debate instead of shutting it down would have brought most neutrals to the constitution side. Now many who saw the separatists as a motley crew of nationalist anarchists combined with Artur Mas' dodgy CiU will sympathise with them.
  • Rothko said:

    Barcelona v Las Palmas has been called off, 80k who would have been in the Nou camp can join the demos

    I see Las Palmas had been given permission to wear a spanish flag on their shirts for todays game.


  • The Police brutality scenes shown on the BBC News site I found shocking.

  • Thanks CM and Ken for bringing this back on track.
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