The most important points are being made in the counter speeches now - that a situation where the minority can dictate the future of the majority can never be described as democratic.
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
The most important points are being made in the counter speeches now - that a situation where the minority can dictate the future of the majority can never be described as democratic.
The most important points are being made in the counter speeches now - that a situation where the minority can dictate the future of the majority can never be described as democratic.
Who is making the counter speeches CM?
Ciudadanos then the PSOE, PP, the Catalan wing of Podemos, CUP, the Esquerra Republica then the spokesperson of Junts per Si, Puigdemont's own party. Basically all parties having a turn in parliament to respond to the speech. The CUP were very strong about his speech, considering they are a supposed ally, where they accused him of betraying the independence cause. He looks very weakened from all sides now.
Well thet was interesting. Puigdemont basically had to have a meeting to warn that they couldn't press ahead with the UDI despite having promised not to. The party holding the Independence coolition together are the anarchistic CUP, who walked out furious and arrived late in Parliament. Puigdemont then launched a discourse which went back over all the reasons why Catalunya deserve Independence, a lot of which revolved around a dictator who died 40 years ago. As @CharltonMadrid said, there were some bizarre reference to the supresión of Catalan language and literature. I can oly asume he was preaching to the converted, as in the school my daughters go to Spanish is the third language taught behind English and Catalan. In fact there has been a groundswell of anger among many that a lot of the pro Independence movement stems from inculcating school children which describe Spain as a bad country who always steal from the hard working Catalans. Anyway, he announced that he will press ahead with Independence but wants time to lower the temperature and open dialogue. Basically that is just lies. My wife reckons he knows that a UDI today would have seen him in prison for 30 years and he couldn't face that, but I personally think he is playing a long game and faced with a cul de sac has tried to buy a bit of time. I imagine the flight of over 30 major companies out of Catalunya in the last week may have pushed him this way. When he finished speaking, a lot of the crowd outside started to drift away and the disection began, Like CharltonMadrid, I enjoyed the Ciutadans spokesman, and I usually loathe them. She discussed the posters put up everywhere here about 'Spain is robbing us', and more potently, about an ongoing problem that Catalunya is being divided into first class catalans whose parents and grandparents were born here and who loathe Spain, and second class ones who may have been born here but had parents from elsewhere and vote for unión. This has come up a lot lately, and it annoys me how many so callled socialists back politics with a shady underbelly like this - imagine if we started doing that in London. The guy from the PP came over as arrogant to be honest, but also happy- I think he knows Puigdemont is finished. Then along came soemone who loked like the sort of girl I hung around with in the Student Unión, from the CUP. She basically stated that Catalunya was an oppressed nation, with its culture under the thumb of an evil country. They had a referéndum, and the relutance to put the vote into action was 'inadmissible treason'. Podemos chipped in by saying Puigdemont had made a difficult decision but at least he offered dialogue which Rajoy had refused.
I guess that this may forcé new elections here. The CUP held the balance of power and I can't see them sticking in the coalition after tonight. However the PP may have something to say on the matter. This issue isn't going away. As Puigdemont DID declare Independence, they may feel they have to keep their own word and put him on trial. I guess I reckon that would be fair enough. A round of elections here would probably be welcomed by some of the Independence movement, but tonights 'betrayal' after so many lofty promises may cost them votes, and the benefactors of the more hard line types might be the CUP. God help us if they get more power, they are a nasty little group, and were running round threatening shop owners who opened here during the last strike. To be honest I have no idea where this goes next, but as I said the government might feel this has gone way beyond allowing the status quo to be maintained. They certainly won't do dialogue as they made it clear that the don't negotiate with delinquents and seccessionists. The PP are actually doing well out of this. I imagine their popularity has soared in the rest of Spain, and given their appalling record on embezzlement (they are the masters in a country where most politicians seem to indulge as a hobby) that will be a nice little result for them. If they sit back and let Puigdemont and his cronies look around for support and influence though they will lose popularity. A lot of the no voters and Spanish in general seem to feel it's time to clear things out a bit and put education here back on a more plural basis.
Ines Arrimades will win a lot of plaudits tonight for her speech. I particularly enjoyed her use of the reference to Oriol Jonqueras' sinister assertions of the genetic differences between the Catalans and other Spaniards to point out that a lot of the nationalistic rhetoric has had some pretty nasty ethnic undertones. It was an impressive speech and I would like to see more of her on the national scene. Ciudadanos could come out quite well after all this.
Ines Arrimades will win a lot of plaudits tonight for her speech. I particularly enjoyed her use of the reference to Oriol Junqueras' sinister assertions of the genetic differences between the Catalans and other Spaniards to point out that a lot of the nationalistic rhetoric has had some pretty nasty ethnic undertones. It was an impressive speech and I would like to see more of her on the national scene. Ciudadanos could come out quite well after all this.
Just googled her. I see where you are coming from......!
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
I won't copy paste some discourse on political philosophy nor attempt to transcribe it but this Wiki article on Rousseau is a starter for ten: Rousseau and the General_will The will of the people appears to be about political representatives and technocrats forming the law and constitution as a framework to benefit all the people. Referenda by definition circumvent the expertise and the nuances of certain positions. As such the expression has been completely bastardised by people who would never normally win through via the usual democratic process.
We can all see later this week how these speeches are reported and then analysed and how the process plays out. Thank goodness they didn't go for UDI for that path could well lead to military intervention and very real bloodshed. Like the Leave leadership, cracks will emerge as they discuss implementation.
@ken_shabby perhaps you can share what the process might be for a snap election? I saw somewhere that the next elections are scheduled for 2019. We can imagine that by that time many companies will have moved their head offices (and taxes) to Madrid or elsewhere. Business does not like uncertainty and this guy Puigdemont, has just eroded his tax base. I have seen a list of at least 20 names that have already moved.
Something similar happened in Quebec - they never went back!
There's a number of options possible here. The government in Madrid may impose article 155 which would suspend the state of autonomy in Catalunya (and possibly drive the Independence coalition back together). That would involve fresh elections. Alternatively if the CUP abandone parliament and return to 'disobedience' as they threatened last night, that would remove the overall majority of the coalition for independence (the margins are that tight) and that on it's own might provoke elections.
Certainly Puigdemont and Jonqueras ( he of the 'Catalans are genetically different from Spaniards'remark) have catastrophically damaged the Catalan economy. They have accused Rajoy of threatening businesses to force them out. The sad fact is they missed the point thst businesses and especially financial institutions loathe uncertainty, and have moved out because it's in their best interest to do so. Quebec is an excellent example.
Surely the only way out of this is for the Spanish government to announce an official referendum to happen in a few months time, say March, then make sure they they campaign in an effective manner so the NO vote wins. Then say, you won a vote that was unconstitutional and when both sides took their chance to vote you lost.
The Catalan leaders would probably ignore that result.
Tomorrow should be interesting as it's a national holiday for the dia de hispanidad (day of Spanish culture). Normally it's a big day of national pride and military parades, at least here in Madrid, but this year it will take on even more importance. Not sure how big the 12th October celebrations are usually in the Catalonia region but could be a flashpoint tomorrow.
There seems to have been some discussions between the government and the socialists today about reforming the constitution, and Sanchez looks like if he plays things right he could come out with some credit from this for attempting to break the stalemate. Rajoy and the PP seem too obstinate to engage in any dialogue or consider any constitutional changes.
It's really a fascinating time in modern Spanish history and I am glad there's a healthy discussion about it on a Charlton forum!
Surely the only way out of this is for the Spanish government to announce an official referendum to happen in a few months time, say March, then make sure they they campaign in an effective manner so the NO vote wins. Then say, you won a vote that was unconstitutional and when both sides took their chance to vote you lost.
The Catalan leaders would probably ignore that result.
But the Spanish constitution passed after Franco died makes no allowance for individual provinces leaving Spain. That would have to be changed in a vote across the whole country. And if the Spanish people voted 'si' then that would open up the whole country to be broken up.
That's not going to happen.
Hence Rajoy has today asked for clarification over the ambiguity in last night's speech.
Part of the Catalan campaign was that as a rich region they were fed up with paying taxes to support poorer regions. That's a fairly ugly sentiment - we could take the same view in London? But much of our wealth and culture arises from people all over the country, in fact all over the world coming to London.
All of this activity is so full of vanity and disruptive whilst at the same time there will be revolutionary changes over the next ten years which will change our thinking and our way of life!
As @CharltonMadrid states, the Government stand firm but other players need to come in with interventions and solutions for the greater good.
Those who throw their toys out of the pram can never be trusted again by investors and European partners! Populists win votes on the basis of anti-establishment rhetoric but they never deliver. For their solutions only touch the surface and simply lack depth and understanding.
Big day here tomorrow: Puigdemont has been told he needs to clarify his stance on independence by 10am and if he confirms the declaration the central government look likely to suspend the autonomy of the Catalan region. Will be watching closely to see what happens but despite all logic seeming to suggest he needs to back down, I can't really see him pulling them back from the brink. Huge amount at stake now and whatever happens tomorrow there will be massive repercussions for the region and the whole country. Watch this space.
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
If there is a vote and more people bother to vote one way than another, then that is the will of the people. If you can't be arsed to vote, the you have to accept the will of the people.
So if we are given 2 options where those supporting the options are clearly being less than honest, so a huge number of people, can't, in good conscience, vote for either of those options, then we take which ever liar manages to gain the most people either willing to accept the lies or taken in by them?
That's not the will of the people, that is chaos. Whichever way you slice it up, 34% of the adult population voted for change, 66% didn't. To try and spin that as the will of the people is disingenuous at best, dishonest at worst.
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
If there is a vote and more people bother to vote one way than another, then that is the will of the people. If you can't be arsed to vote, the you have to accept the will of the people.
Hardly devaluing.
Most Catalans boycotted the vote as it was organised by a group of people who do not represent the majority and who many Catalans feel have a pretty sinister agenda. The running of the referendum was completely chaotic with people voting multiple times, resulting in many municipalities having more Yes votes than inhabitants on the electoral role. Clearly such a shambles and discredited vote does not represent the Catalan people, let alone their will. The people I know there just want to get on with their lives and not be manipulated by the game playing career politicians.
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
If there is a vote and more people bother to vote one way than another, then that is the will of the people. If you can't be arsed to vote, the you have to accept the will of the people.
Hardly devaluing.
Come on - you're much more intelligent than that. I know you understand democractic process - you surely can't be comparing a properly implemented and monitored electoral process with the shambles that went on a couple of weeks ago? Even setting aside the legality of the vote, and the constitution of Spain requiring all other citizens to be given a vote - the election itself was ridiculously flawed - I mean, printing out your own ballot paper FFS?!?
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
If there is a vote and more people bother to vote one way than another, then that is the will of the people. If you can't be arsed to vote, the you have to accept the will of the people.
Hardly devaluing.
Come on - you're much more intelligent than that. I know you understand democractic process - you surely can't be comparing a properly implemented and monitored electoral process with the shambles that went on a couple of weeks ago? Even setting aside the legality of the vote, and the constitution of Spain requiring all other citizens to be given a vote - the election itself was ridiculously flawed - I mean, printing out your own ballot paper FFS?!?
Probably given the SNP a few ideas though !
I'm very confused about the situation in Catalonia now, it seems to me the Spanish government have played it very well by calling Puigdemont's bluff and almost daring him to explicitly declare independence and he's bottled it and come up with some silly fudge to try and save face.
With Brexit and this it seems the term "Will of the people" has been completely devalued....it has been hijacked by frothing nationalists when the maths clearly show the "Will of the people" has not been expressed!
If there is a vote and more people bother to vote one way than another, then that is the will of the people. If you can't be arsed to vote, the you have to accept the will of the people.
Hardly devaluing.
I imagine most loyalists stayed at home because no national government recognised the vote, the government declared it illegal and threatened to arrest anyone involved.
Spanish government are looking to impose article 155, which is not surprsing but could lead to civil unrest in Barcelona.
If your going there, then beware and stay safe.
There are indications that the Madrid Government are hoping to be a little more subtle than before, taking certain elements of Catalunya's administration into direct control, rather than the whole thing.
That said, I expect Puigdemont & co to attempt to push (or putsch) them into a confrontation.
Spanish government are looking to impose article 155, which is not surprsing but could lead to civil unrest in Barcelona.
If your going there, then beware and stay safe.
There are indications that the Madrid Government are hoping to be a little more subtle than before, taking certain elements of Catalunya's administration into direct control, rather than the whole thing.
That said, I expect Puigdemont & co to attempt to push (or putsch) them into a confrontation.
Looks like Madrid are playing the cessetionists at their own game! Threaten the imposition of direct rule via article 155 and then suspend or simply implement partially as you suggest. The difference is that they are operating within the constitution.
At least the pace of the process has slowed down - perhaps this will run and run until regional elections scheduled in 2019? So 18 months of development instead of 18 days?
Been off this for a while - I was away from Catalunya, and also fairly sick of the whole thing. Driving back from Andalusia on saturday listening to the radio made me remember how Little I missed all of this. A couple of fun quotes when the article 155 was invoked and ten, The mayores of Barcelona, Ada Colau said it was the worst day in 40 years for Barcelona, neatly forgettint the 17 people who died in a terrorist attack on the Ramblas two months ago, Another member of the Catalan Independence movement said they were in 'shock' after the attack on democracy here. To be honest, this sort of childish victimism is really beginning to grind my gears. They neatly forget that they were the ones who invoked an utterly undemocatic referéndum and then tried to apply the results over the heads of all the people who were born here and don't want to see the economy destroyed over such a foolish issue. At the momento, over 400 companies have relocated out of Catalunya, all of which is revenue lost (probably forever if the example of Quebec is to be believed) to the republic.
The pride of place however goes to the CUP anti capitalist party, who only have a limited number of seats but also control the balance of power as they allow the Indepes as they are called, to have a majority in parliament. They were on the radio this morning in all their glory. The curret plan is that Catalunya dosen't need Europe or the Euro, as Europe is equally fascist as Spain. Instead, they will make treaties with other similar countries and trade with....wait for it....Venezuela, Cuba, and some country I can't remember in the Caucasus. You can see the attraction to big businesses to invest here when members of the Govern view the future like that.
As @i_b_b_o_r_g says, it'll be an interesting week. One ting that has come to light here is how much money the Catalan government has been spending with public funds on promoting Independence for the last decade. One ex president handed over 1,000,000 euro to found a radical pro Independence newspapaer, Ara ('Now' in English) and they continue to subsidise it. Ither payments include inviting possibly friendly members of the international press here to explain how badly Independence is neede, and to offer presents for a good write up. Yet more has been spent on kiddies books explaining how Spain has systematically robbed Catalunya forever, and continues to do so until the Catalans shake off the chains of oppression.
I guess my take is still that this could have been avoided if the idiotic Mariano Rajoy had actually offered constructive dialogue six years ago, instead of pompously waving the Catalans away. But the more the covert Independence machinations come to light, the more angry I get that these people are sabotaging the entire country for their inflated egoistic ideas of Independence. Various groups (teachers and members of the Catalan government among others) have already stated that they will not under any circumstance obey orders from Madrid, so there will probably be a head on collision later in the week. For the rest of us, tourism is already calculating a billion euros in lost bookings and cancellations, the property and construction markets have stalled. That is two major players in the Catalan economy. As a friend of mine said yesterday, was it really so bad here that they had to do all of this? And for what gain? Idiots.
Been off this for a while - I was away from Catalunya, and also fairly sick of the whole thing. Driving back from Andalusia on saturday listening to the radio made me remember how Little I missed all of this. A couple of fun quotes when the article 155 was invoked and ten, The mayores of Barcelona, Ada Colau said it was the worst day in 40 years for Barcelona, neatly forgettint the 17 people who died in a terrorist attack on the Ramblas two months ago, Another member of the Catalan Independence movement said they were in 'shock' after the attack on democracy here. To be honest, this sort of childish victimism is really beginning to grind my gears. They neatly forget that they were the ones who invoked an utterly undemocatic referéndum and then tried to apply the results over the heads of all the people who were born here and don't want to see the economy destroyed over such a foolish issue. At the momento, over 400 companies have relocated out of Catalunya, all of which is revenue lost (probably forever if the example of Quebec is to be believed) to the republic.
The pride of place however goes to the CUP anti capitalist party, who only have a limited number of seats but also control the balance of power as they allow the Indepes as they are called, to have a majority in parliament. They were on the radio this morning in all their glory. The curret plan is that Catalunya dosen't need Europe or the Euro, as Europe is equally fascist as Spain. Instead, they will make treaties with other similar countries and trade with....wait for it....Venezuela, Cuba, and some country I can't remember in the Caucasus. You can see the attraction to big businesses to invest here when members of the Govern view the future like that.
As @i_b_b_o_r_g says, it'll be an interesting week. One ting that has come to light here is how much money the Catalan government has been spending with public funds on promoting Independence for the last decade. One ex president handed over 1,000,000 euro to found a radical pro Independence newspapaer, Ara ('Now' in English) and they continue to subsidise it. Ither payments include inviting possibly friendly members of the international press here to explain how badly Independence is neede, and to offer presents for a good write up. Yet more has been spent on kiddies books explaining how Spain has systematically robbed Catalunya forever, and continues to do so until the Catalans shake off the chains of oppression.
I guess my take is still that this could have been avoided if the idiotic Mariano Rajoy had actually offered constructive dialogue six years ago, instead of pompously waving the Catalans away. But the more the covert Independence machinations come to light, the more angry I get that these people are sabotaging the entire country for their inflated egoistic ideas of Independence. Various groups (teachers and members of the Catalan government among others) have already stated that they will not under any circumstance obey orders from Madrid, so there will probably be a head on collision later in the week. For the rest of us, tourism is already calculating a billion euros in lost bookings and cancellations, the property and construction markets have stalled. That is two major players in the Catalan economy. As a friend of mine said yesterday, was it really so bad here that they had to do all of this? And for what gain? Idiots.
All looks a bit sinister what with Dastis telling people to "ignore" the local authorities and police etc.. It's gonna be interesting to see how that one pans out as I'm reckon Mosos can be just as baton happy as the Guardia Civil
Comments
When he finished speaking, a lot of the crowd outside started to drift away and the disection began, Like CharltonMadrid, I enjoyed the Ciutadans spokesman, and I usually loathe them. She discussed the posters put up everywhere here about 'Spain is robbing us', and more potently, about an ongoing problem that Catalunya is being divided into first class catalans whose parents and grandparents were born here and who loathe Spain, and second class ones who may have been born here but had parents from elsewhere and vote for unión. This has come up a lot lately, and it annoys me how many so callled socialists back politics with a shady underbelly like this - imagine if we started doing that in London. The guy from the PP came over as arrogant to be honest, but also happy- I think he knows Puigdemont is finished. Then along came soemone who loked like the sort of girl I hung around with in the Student Unión, from the CUP. She basically stated that Catalunya was an oppressed nation, with its culture under the thumb of an evil country. They had a referéndum, and the relutance to put the vote into action was 'inadmissible treason'. Podemos chipped in by saying Puigdemont had made a difficult decision but at least he offered dialogue which Rajoy had refused.
I guess that this may forcé new elections here. The CUP held the balance of power and I can't see them sticking in the coalition after tonight. However the PP may have something to say on the matter. This issue isn't going away. As Puigdemont DID declare Independence, they may feel they have to keep their own word and put him on trial. I guess I reckon that would be fair enough. A round of elections here would probably be welcomed by some of the Independence movement, but tonights 'betrayal' after so many lofty promises may cost them votes, and the benefactors of the more hard line types might be the CUP. God help us if they get more power, they are a nasty little group, and were running round threatening shop owners who opened here during the last strike.
To be honest I have no idea where this goes next, but as I said the government might feel this has gone way beyond allowing the status quo to be maintained. They certainly won't do dialogue as they made it clear that the don't negotiate with delinquents and seccessionists. The PP are actually doing well out of this. I imagine their popularity has soared in the rest of Spain, and given their appalling record on embezzlement (they are the masters in a country where most politicians seem to indulge as a hobby) that will be a nice little result for them. If they sit back and let Puigdemont and his cronies look around for support and influence though they will lose popularity. A lot of the no voters and Spanish in general seem to feel it's time to clear things out a bit and put education here back on a more plural basis.
Rousseau and the General_will
The will of the people appears to be about political representatives and technocrats forming the law and constitution as a framework to benefit all the people. Referenda by definition circumvent the expertise and the nuances of certain positions. As such the expression has been completely bastardised by people who would never normally win through via the usual democratic process.
We can all see later this week how these speeches are reported and then analysed and how the process plays out. Thank goodness they didn't go for UDI for that path could well lead to military intervention and very real bloodshed. Like the Leave leadership, cracks will emerge as they discuss implementation.
@ken_shabby perhaps you can share what the process might be for a snap election? I saw somewhere that the next elections are scheduled for 2019. We can imagine that by that time many companies will have moved their head offices (and taxes) to Madrid or elsewhere. Business does not like uncertainty and this guy Puigdemont, has just eroded his tax base. I have seen a list of at least 20 names that have already moved.
Something similar happened in Quebec - they never went back!
Alternatively if the CUP abandone parliament and return to 'disobedience' as they threatened last night, that would remove the overall majority of the coalition for independence (the margins are that tight) and that on it's own might provoke elections.
Certainly Puigdemont and Jonqueras ( he of the 'Catalans are genetically different from Spaniards'remark) have catastrophically damaged the Catalan economy. They have accused Rajoy of threatening businesses to force them out. The sad fact is they missed the point thst businesses and especially financial institutions loathe uncertainty, and have moved out because it's in their best interest to do so. Quebec is an excellent example.
The Catalan leaders would probably ignore that result.
There seems to have been some discussions between the government and the socialists today about reforming the constitution, and Sanchez looks like if he plays things right he could come out with some credit from this for attempting to break the stalemate. Rajoy and the PP seem too obstinate to engage in any dialogue or consider any constitutional changes.
It's really a fascinating time in modern Spanish history and I am glad there's a healthy discussion about it on a Charlton forum!
That's not going to happen.
Hence Rajoy has today asked for clarification over the ambiguity in last night's speech.
Part of the Catalan campaign was that as a rich region they were fed up with paying taxes to support poorer regions. That's a fairly ugly sentiment - we could take the same view in London? But much of our wealth and culture arises from people all over the country, in fact all over the world coming to London.
All of this activity is so full of vanity and disruptive whilst at the same time there will be revolutionary changes over the next ten years which will change our thinking and our way of life!
As @CharltonMadrid states, the Government stand firm but other players need to come in with interventions and solutions for the greater good.
Those who throw their toys out of the pram can never be trusted again by investors and European partners! Populists win votes on the basis of anti-establishment rhetoric but they never deliver. For their solutions only touch the surface and simply lack depth and understanding.
It now seems he's asking for another two months of talks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41632084
Hardly devaluing.
That's not the will of the people, that is chaos. Whichever way you slice it up, 34% of the adult population voted for change, 66% didn't. To try and spin that as the will of the people is disingenuous at best, dishonest at worst.
I'm very confused about the situation in Catalonia now, it seems to me the Spanish government have played it very well by calling Puigdemont's bluff and almost daring him to explicitly declare independence and he's bottled it and come up with some silly fudge to try and save face.
If your going there, then beware and stay safe.
That said, I expect Puigdemont & co to attempt to push (or putsch) them into a confrontation.
At least the pace of the process has slowed down - perhaps this will run and run until regional elections scheduled in 2019? So 18 months of development instead of 18 days?
The pride of place however goes to the CUP anti capitalist party, who only have a limited number of seats but also control the balance of power as they allow the Indepes as they are called, to have a majority in parliament. They were on the radio this morning in all their glory. The curret plan is that Catalunya dosen't need Europe or the Euro, as Europe is equally fascist as Spain. Instead, they will make treaties with other similar countries and trade with....wait for it....Venezuela, Cuba, and some country I can't remember in the Caucasus. You can see the attraction to big businesses to invest here when members of the Govern view the future like that.
As @i_b_b_o_r_g says, it'll be an interesting week. One ting that has come to light here is how much money the Catalan government has been spending with public funds on promoting Independence for the last decade. One ex president handed over 1,000,000 euro to found a radical pro Independence newspapaer, Ara ('Now' in English) and they continue to subsidise it. Ither payments include inviting possibly friendly members of the international press here to explain how badly Independence is neede, and to offer presents for a good write up. Yet more has been spent on kiddies books explaining how Spain has systematically robbed Catalunya forever, and continues to do so until the Catalans shake off the chains of oppression.
I guess my take is still that this could have been avoided if the idiotic Mariano Rajoy had actually offered constructive dialogue six years ago, instead of pompously waving the Catalans away. But the more the covert Independence machinations come to light, the more angry I get that these people are sabotaging the entire country for their inflated egoistic ideas of Independence. Various groups (teachers and members of the Catalan government among others) have already stated that they will not under any circumstance obey orders from Madrid, so there will probably be a head on collision later in the week. For the rest of us, tourism is already calculating a billion euros in lost bookings and cancellations, the property and construction markets have stalled. That is two major players in the Catalan economy. As a friend of mine said yesterday, was it really so bad here that they had to do all of this? And for what gain? Idiots.