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The Ashes 2017-18

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  • We lack class batsmen - that being the case we can't afford to waste Bairstow at 7 - sheer madness.

    Get him into the middle order and get someone else to take the gloves and bat down at 8 - I would go for Buttler although I know he is short of FC cricket.

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Root
    Bairstow
    Malan/Westley
    Stokes
    Ali
    Buttler
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

  • I like the cut of Overton - got a bit of aggression about him.
    I wonder if the 'no surprises' means that Foakes wont go? if so, who is going to be understudy to Bairstow...Buttler?
  • I like the cut of Overton - got a bit of aggression about him.
    I wonder if the 'no surprises' means that Foakes wont go? if so, who is going to be understudy to Bairstow...Buttler?

    Overton is a top fielder too.
  • We lack class batsmen - that being the case we can't afford to waste Bairstow at 7 - sheer madness.

    Get him into the middle order and get someone else to take the gloves and bat down at 8 - I would go for Buttler although I know he is short of FC cricket.

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Root
    Bairstow
    Malan/Westley
    Stokes
    Ali
    Buttler
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

    No way should Buttler play in Oz, may aswell play Rashid/Overton at 9 as they can bowl too with Woakes at 8, who is certainly a good enough 8. With Broad and Woakes lacking form at the minute, still think 5 seamers could be the way to go, possibly Overton could surprise people and at 9 still gives us good depth.

    The above is how I see it but with Westley at 3, Root 4 and Bairstow 5. I do actually think Buttler will play but think it's a big mistake.
  • I like the cut of Overton - got a bit of aggression about him.
    I wonder if the 'no surprises' means that Foakes wont go? if so, who is going to be understudy to Bairstow...Buttler?

    I think Buttler will play at 8 personally:
    Cook
    Stoneman
    Westley
    Root
    Bairstow
    Stokes
    Ali
    Buttler
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

    Injury permitting that's how I think we will line up first test.
  • Whats the situation with Mark Wood?
  • Whats the situation with Mark Wood?

    He is still having to have injections for his long term heel injury and is a doubt for that reason.
  • Liam Plunkett anyone?

    he's been one of our top three fast bowlers for a few years .. but I do wonder if temperamentally and physically he might be much more suited to the one day game ..

    as with Wood, difficult to see either bowling fast and aggressively enough near the close of play on the fourth day of a test under the blazing Queensland/West Australia sun
  • I have thought long and hard about Hales and just don't think he's up to Test cricket - he doesn't know where his off stump is or the right balls to score off. It's a totally different game facing a decent Test attack and dropping down the order will make very little difference. His Test average is 27.28 but most interesting of all is his strike rate - just 43.84 - and that further reinforces that he is very much a "see ball hit ball" player but cannot do that when there are four slips and a gully waiting for that nick as opposed to four runs in ODIs.

    The other interesting stat is his performance in the CC this season. He averages 47.11 but, of his 424 runs, 218 came in one innings. Now, for those that argue that Northeast shouldn't be given an opportunity, let's not forget that Hales has been playing in that League too. The difference is that Northeast averages 56.16 and has a highest score of 173* from 20 innings. And this isn't the first season that Northeast has done it - last season he scored 1402 runs at an average of 82.47 with a top score of 192.

    So, if we do believe that the likes of Vince, Westley and Malan are walking wickets where's the harm in trying Northeast? Test cricket is littered with players coming in on the basis of "gut feeling". So let's see the selectors having some guts.

    I absolutely agree. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't want a player making their debut in an Ashes tour down under, but we're going to have to either pick players who didn't score runs in the summer or players making their debut. It wasn't the strongest Windies team, yes they played better than most of us thought but our team of Trott, Pietersen and Bell of a few years ago would still have scored big against them. For that reason, I don't see how Northeast is a worse pick than Westley or Malan. I would pick Hales above them two aswell.
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  • I like the cut of Overton - got a bit of aggression about him.
    I wonder if the 'no surprises' means that Foakes wont go? if so, who is going to be understudy to Bairstow...Buttler?

    The lions are touring oz at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if we picked a squad of 15 'expected names' and names foakes, northeast, vince, Overton etc in the lions tour. This will give them game time and prevent them being water carriers sand then get called up if needed
  • Northeast's century and 70 at Durham must surely count for something, their attack that match was definitely L1 standard
  • I like the cut of Overton - got a bit of aggression about him.
    I wonder if the 'no surprises' means that Foakes wont go? if so, who is going to be understudy to Bairstow...Buttler?

    The lions are touring oz at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if we picked a squad of 15 'expected names' and names foakes, northeast, vince, Overton etc in the lions tour. This will give them game time and prevent them being water carriers sand then get called up if needed
    With Wood and TRJ out, I would imagine Overton is going to be needed in the squad. We will name 6 seamers and Woakes, Stokes, Broad and Anderson are certainties. I would have thought Ball and Overton are the next 2 in line, seems Overton has been picked over Finn.
  • My 17....

    Stoneman,
    Cook,
    Root,
    Bairstow
    Malan
    Stokes
    Ali
    Woakes
    Overton/Wood/Plunkett/Finn (3 of these 4)
    Broad
    Jimmy

    Plus.....
    Crane - although think they will pick Rashid coz of his Oz experience.- although Vic Marks in the Guardian thinks that they have already chosen Crane.
    Foakes
    Northeast (AA has sold me)
    Westley






  • I bet root plays at 4
  • As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)
  • edited September 2017
    It was quite interesting to look at the squad that went out to Oz last time, which included the likes of Rankin,Carberry,Prior,Swann,Panesar
  • Michael Vaughan's team.

    image
  • Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
  • Michael Vaughan's team.

    image

    Can't take this seriously - he can't even spell "Ballance".
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  • Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
    the age means nothing, if anything the experience plays into Mitchell's favour.
  • edited September 2017
    Mitchell has never really been mentioned. Totally off the radar. Now, Joe Clarke is diff'rent mustard and would expect him to certainly get into Lions team.
    Has Northeast played for Lions? if so, how did he do?
  • edited September 2017

    Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
    the age means nothing, if anything the experience plays into Mitchell's favour.
    I appreciate that age means nothing but he has a worse average than Northeast - both career and this season playing in the same division. In fact, last season he averaged 35 and Northeast averaged 82! So why pick a 34 year old over a 28 year old if the stats are against the older man too?
  • Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
    the age means nothing, if anything the experience plays into Mitchell's favour.
    I appreciate that age means nothing but he has a worse average than Northeast - both career and this season playing in the same division. In fact, last season he averaged 35 and Northeast averaged 82! So why pick a 34 year old over a 28 year old if the stats are against the older man too?
    Agreed based on the stats. Don't get the relevance of mentioning the age though.
  • Mitchell has never really been mentioned. Totally off the radar. Now, Joe Clarke is diff'rent mustard and would expect him to certainly get into Lions team.
    Has Northeast played for Lions? if so, how did he do?

    I don't believe Northeast has played for the Lions which I find strange.
  • Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
    the age means nothing, if anything the experience plays into Mitchell's favour.
    I appreciate that age means nothing but he has a worse average than Northeast - both career and this season playing in the same division. In fact, last season he averaged 35 and Northeast averaged 82! So why pick a 34 year old over a 28 year old if the stats are against the older man too?
    Agreed based on the stats. Don't get the relevance of mentioning the age though.
    Because I was trying to compare Leuth's assertion that we should pick his "favourite" over my "favourite". And my Div 2 player trumps his Div 2 player because, assuming that they have identical stats (which they don't), one potentially has a season or two in the Test side whereas the other has six years plus.
  • Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
    the age means nothing, if anything the experience plays into Mitchell's favour.
    I appreciate that age means nothing but he has a worse average than Northeast - both career and this season playing in the same division. In fact, last season he averaged 35 and Northeast averaged 82! So why pick a 34 year old over a 28 year old if the stats are against the older man too?
    Agreed based on the stats. Don't get the relevance of mentioning the age though.
    Because I was trying to compare Leuth's assertion that we should pick his "favourite" over my "favourite". And my Div 2 player trumps his Div 2 player because, assuming that they have identical stats (which they don't), one potentially has a season or two in the Test side whereas the other has six years plus.
    Ashes series will be completely different though. I don't care if we pick a 65 year old. This series is not about building for the future, it's about getting the best result we can.
  • Leuth said:

    As I said before, we can all pick our favourites. Why Northeast but not Mitchell, who's had an even better season? Neither will be picked, of course, but only one of them might be in a position to score D1 runs next season. I mean, unless... ;)

    Mitchell averages 51 and Northeast 56. And Mitchell will be 34 by the time the Ashes come round i.e. six years older than Northeast.
    the age means nothing, if anything the experience plays into Mitchell's favour.
    I appreciate that age means nothing but he has a worse average than Northeast - both career and this season playing in the same division. In fact, last season he averaged 35 and Northeast averaged 82! So why pick a 34 year old over a 28 year old if the stats are against the older man too?
    Agreed based on the stats. Don't get the relevance of mentioning the age though.
    Because I was trying to compare Leuth's assertion that we should pick his "favourite" over my "favourite". And my Div 2 player trumps his Div 2 player because, assuming that they have identical stats (which they don't), one potentially has a season or two in the Test side whereas the other has six years plus.
    Ashes series will be completely different though. I don't care if we pick a 65 year old. This series is not about building for the future, it's about getting the best result we can.
    Agreed in that respect, indeed IF Ian Bell had been scoring runs, there would have been a case for recalling him for this series (but he isn't )
  • Is we're talking Kent, Joe Denly would also be a decent shout for no 3, currently 92no in a score of 189-6
  • We lack class batsmen - that being the case we can't afford to waste Bairstow at 7 - sheer madness.

    Get him into the middle order and get someone else to take the gloves and bat down at 8 - I would go for Buttler although I know he is short of FC cricket.

    Cook
    Stoneman
    Root
    Bairstow
    Malan/Westley
    Stokes
    Ali
    Buttler
    Woakes
    Broad
    Anderson

    No way should Buttler play in Oz, may aswell play Rashid/Overton at 9 as they can bowl too with Woakes at 8, who is certainly a good enough 8. With Broad and Woakes lacking form at the minute, still think 5 seamers could be the way to go, possibly Overton could surprise people and at 9 still gives us good depth.

    The above is how I see it but with Westley at 3, Root 4 and Bairstow 5. I do actually think Buttler will play but think it's a big mistake.
    I also have reservations about Buttler but the bottom line is England have a massive problem in their top-order.

    In the successful Ashes here in 10/11 England had five batsmen in the top five who scored big tons in the series - Cook, Strauss, Trott, KP and Bell.

    Right now we only have two - Cook and Root - who are likely to get big runs and we cannot rely on Stokes, Bairstow and Ali to bail us out.

    In Australia the MO is very, very simple, you put 500 on the board and then put pressure on the opposition, if you bat first and score 250 you will get crushed.

    On the true, flat decks they have over here then Butler's style of batting will work well, his main struggles have been against spinners not quick bowlers.
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