She can try again, and up the threats! That is when it will all really kick off I predict. There is no way she is going to win the vote and her plan to scare people into it is just not going to work.
She can try again, and up the threats! That is when it will all really kick off I predict. There is no way she is going to win the vote and her plan to scare people into it is just not going to work.
what concessions would she need?
A time limit on the backstop/unilateral get out perhaps? But would that be enough?
It could be worse than a distraction as it should strengthen her position - as there then can't be another Tory leadership challenge for one year.
She will have known all along from the Tory whips about the strength of her position. That they appear unable to secure 48 letters, let alone 158 MPs and a leadership candidate simply reveals their weakness to the electorate and the media - more new information!
Now that she is crossing that bridge, the next challenge is to win a vote in the House. Both Heseltine and McDonnell say the numbers simply do not stack up. As posted higher up, what witnessing is the potential fragmentation of the Government coalition consisting DUP, ERG, Tory remainers and the rest. It will take as long as it takes and all we might hope for is the minimum damage to our economy and international reputation.
If May stays put this simply changes the calculation for Labour and the Tory remainers. The EU27 are not going to change the deal on offer, nor the deadline. To the horror of people such as @Southbank Tusk has revealed that the EU is prepared for the deal, no deal and most of all no Brexit!
The EU will allow time for another vote, which ultimately will scupper May's plan.
I think this as well. I said some time ago that I wouldn't be overly surprised if this whole situation is being more managed than we may think, in order to eventually arrive at a Remain vote.
Theresa May couldn't do this too speedily as it would be obvious, but I can't help feeling that there's way and means and May is more shrewd than we are giving her credit for.
They will probably get enough - but what do they do when they get them? They don't have the numbers to topple her and she does remind me of Geoff Boycott but sadly not in the best way! But in this case, they will only make themselves and their party look even more stupid.
Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.
There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.
So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"
There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.
Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.
There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.
So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"
There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.
Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.
Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.
There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.
So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"
There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.
Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.
Ditto Boris Johnson. When the time comes for initiative, determination, influence, organisation and temperament, he goes missing. Which is ironic really, because the initials of those words would seem entirely suitable for him.
If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?
The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.
So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.
It could be worse than a distraction as it should strengthen her position - as there then can't be another Tory leadership challenge for one year.
She will have known all along from the Tory whips about the strength of her position. That they appear unable to secure 48 letters, let alone 158 MPs and a leadership candidate simply reveals their weakness to the electorate and the media - more new information!
Now that she is crossing that bridge, the next challenge is to win a vote in the House. Both Heseltine and McDonnell say the numbers simply do not stack up. As posted higher up, what witnessing is the potential fragmentation of the Government coalition consisting DUP, ERG, Tory remainers and the rest. It will take as long as it takes and all we might hope for is the minimum damage to our economy and international reputation.
If May stays put this simply changes the calculation for Labour and the Tory remainers. The EU27 are not going to change the deal on offer, nor the deadline. To the horror of people such as @Southbank Tusk has revealed that the EU is prepared for the deal, no deal and most of all no Brexit!
Yes, I am shocked the EU does not want us to Leave and wreck their European project.
If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?
The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.
So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.
If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.
I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.
You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.
The EU will allow time for another vote, which ultimately will scupper May's plan.
I think this as well. I said some time ago that I wouldn't be overly surprised if this whole situation is being more managed than we may think, in order to eventually arrive at a Remain vote.
Theresa May couldn't do this too speedily as it would be obvious, but I can't help feeling that there's way and means and May is more shrewd than we are giving her credit for.
I would love to think that there was a plan to save us from Brexit, but it all seems to far fetched to me. The possibilities of who might do what and how things might turn out are just too many for a plan like that to work. Sorry, but I'm filing that idea away with fake moon landings, cargo cults, and homeopathy.
Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.
There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.
So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"
There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.
Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.
Ditto Boris Johnson. When the time comes for initiative, determination, influence, organisation and temperament, he goes missing. Which is ironic really, because the initials of those words would seem entirely suitable for him.
Don’t forget Andrea Leadsom’s Pizza Club is still hiding in the shadows and waiting to pounce 🤪
The EU will allow time for another vote, which ultimately will scupper May's plan.
I think this as well. I said some time ago that I wouldn't be overly surprised if this whole situation is being more managed than we may think, in order to eventually arrive at a Remain vote.
Theresa May couldn't do this too speedily as it would be obvious, but I can't help feeling that there's way and means and May is more shrewd than we are giving her credit for.
I would love to think that there was a plan to save us from Brexit, but it all seems to far fetched to me. The possibilities of who might do what and how things might turn out are just too many for a plan like that to work. Sorry, but I'm filing that idea away with fake moon landings, cargo cults, and homeopathy.
I would agree, although not entirely for the reasons you have stated. Nobody currently in parliament has the ability to plan something that complicated. But they are scheming bastards so it is possible.
If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?
The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.
So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.
If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.
I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.
You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.
Remind us how many successful legal proceedings have there been over the last 2 1/2 years to give your post any validity?
If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?
The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.
So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.
If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.
I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.
You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.
Remind us how many successful legal proceedings have there been over the last 2 1/2 years to give your post any validity?
The UK Government are blocking the investigation into the several acts of criminality that the police and the Electoral Commission want to proceed with. There was widespread electoral fraud that has taken place, and the government is refusing to do anything about it for political reasons.
Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.
Don't speak too soon, he looks to me well placed to take over when the first vote on the deal fails. A measure of how far right the Tories have drifted that gove could now be the centre ground
If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?
The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.
So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.
If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.
I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.
You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.
Remind us how many successful legal proceedings have there been over the last 2 1/2 years to give your post any validity?
The UK Government are blocking the investigation into the several acts of criminality that the police and the Electoral Commission want to proceed with. There was widespread electoral fraud that has taken place, and the government is refusing to do anything about it for political reasons.
So none then. Largest act of criminality, you say? And the Leader of the Opposition has not bothered to raise a case in a country where legal precedence over rides what the Government wants? I wonder why?
If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?
The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.
So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.
If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.
I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.
You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.
Remind us how many successful legal proceedings have there been over the last 2 1/2 years to give your post any validity?
The UK Government are blocking the investigation into the several acts of criminality that the police and the Electoral Commission want to proceed with. There was widespread electoral fraud that has taken place, and the government is refusing to do anything about it for political reasons.
So none then. Largest act of criminality, you say? And the Leader of the Opposition has not bothered to raise a case in a country where legal precedence over rides what the Government wants? I wonder why?
Someone must be talking nonsense.
Corbyn being a useless apparatchik doesn't mean criminality didn't occur.
Why won't the Leave campaigns come clean over where their money came from?
Who paid for all the illegal Leave ads on Facebook?
What was the true extent of the illegal data-mining by Cambridge Analytica and why were they meeting up with Vote Leave, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove?
Carole Cadwalladr has been fantastic as exposing the corruption involved by various Brexiters, the crimes that have taken place and the steps taken by the government and high level officials to block their investigation. It is on the public record that the police have stated their attempts to investigate any wrongdoing have been blocked due to "political sensitivities."
The EU will allow time for another vote, which ultimately will scupper May's plan.
I think this as well. I said some time ago that I wouldn't be overly surprised if this whole situation is being more managed than we may think, in order to eventually arrive at a Remain vote.
Theresa May couldn't do this too speedily as it would be obvious, but I can't help feeling that there's way and means and May is more shrewd than we are giving her credit for.
I would love to think that there was a plan to save us from Brexit, but it all seems to far fetched to me. The possibilities of who might do what and how things might turn out are just too many for a plan like that to work. Sorry, but I'm filing that idea away with fake moon landings, cargo cults, and homeopathy.
I would agree, although not entirely for the reasons you have stated. Nobody currently in parliament has the ability to plan something that complicated. But they are scheming bastards so it is possible.
I obviously don't think the whole thing is planned, that would be ridiculous. But I don't think it's out of the question that May has some sort of agreement with Juncker. If she can engineer or happen upon a second vote, which chooses Remain. The EU would be happy to oblige and put the whole sorry saga to bed.
Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.
There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.
So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"
There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.
Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.
Because that is what he likes doing - I suspect distrust of Gove is probably one of the very few things that the Tories can agree upon at present.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Comments
A time limit on the backstop/unilateral get out perhaps? But would that be enough?
Now that she is crossing that bridge, the next challenge is to win a vote in the House. Both Heseltine and McDonnell say the numbers simply do not stack up. As posted higher up, what witnessing is the potential fragmentation of the Government coalition consisting DUP, ERG, Tory remainers and the rest. It will take as long as it takes and all we might hope for is the minimum damage to our economy and international reputation.
If May stays put this simply changes the calculation for Labour and the Tory remainers. The EU27 are not going to change the deal on offer, nor the deadline. To the horror of people such as @Southbank Tusk has revealed that the EU is prepared for the deal, no deal and most of all no Brexit!
Interesting times, if it was a soap opera I’d probably watch it, but sadly it isn’t and is actually quite important.
I think there’s a chance she may well get enough support with a few amendments.
She’s got staying power I’ll give her that, probably helped by the numskulls likely to be the challangers.
Theresa May couldn't do this too speedily as it would be obvious, but I can't help feeling that there's way and means and May is more shrewd than we are giving her credit for.
There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.
So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"
There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.
I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.
You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.
Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.
Don't speak too soon, he looks to me well placed to take over when the first vote on the deal fails. A measure of how far right the Tories have drifted that gove could now be the centre ground
Largest act of criminality, you say?
And the Leader of the Opposition has not bothered to raise a case in a country where legal precedence over rides what the Government wants? I wonder why?
Someone must be talking nonsense.
Why won't the Leave campaigns come clean over where their money came from?
Who paid for all the illegal Leave ads on Facebook?
What was the true extent of the illegal data-mining by Cambridge Analytica and why were they meeting up with Vote Leave, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove?
Carole Cadwalladr has been fantastic as exposing the corruption involved by various Brexiters, the crimes that have taken place and the steps taken by the government and high level officials to block their investigation. It is on the public record that the police have stated their attempts to investigate any wrongdoing have been blocked due to "political sensitivities."
But I don't think it's out of the question that May has some sort of agreement with Juncker.
If she can engineer or happen upon a second vote, which chooses Remain.
The EU would be happy to oblige and put the whole sorry saga to bed.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.