I have said on here recently that I don't mind another Referendum......but I won't ever vote again in any election (GE or local). Don't bother to ask for my vote because you can't deliver what you asked me.
I now truely beleive that Brexit can not be acheived. We can not leave the EU. It is simply not possible unless either ;
1) There is a United Ireland so the border problem is not an issue.
or
2) Some hard nosed Politician does the unthinkable & agrees to (and builds) a hard border between NI & ROI
Probably everything else can be sorted out.....eventually. But the above problem cant. Not now.Maybe in 20 -30 years time perhaps.
I agree Golfie. We have totally been let down by the establishment. When Cameron decided to fuck off, he should have been replaced by someone who truly believed in brexit. We were handed someone who didn’t & is now being laughed at and pushed around by Europe. God knows where this will end up.
T May complains of the EU27 offering "only" two options for a post Brexit agreement, but seems quite pleased her Government could manage just the one. Sounds like a no deal announcement in effect.
Looking very much like a no deal to me. No foreseeable comprises look like closing the gulf that obviously exists. May trying to look like “the Iron Lady” and only achieves blancmange.
I have said on here recently that I don't mind another Referendum......but I won't ever vote again in any election (GE or local). Don't bother to ask for my vote because you can't deliver what you asked me.
I now truely beleive that Brexit can not be acheived. We can not leave the EU. It is simply not possible unless either ;
1) There is a United Ireland so the border problem is not an issue.
or
2) Some hard nosed Politician does the unthinkable & agrees to (and builds) a hard border between NI & ROI
Probably everything else can be sorted out.....eventually. But the above problem cant. Not now.Maybe in 20 -30 years time perhaps.
I agree Golfie. We have totally been let down by the establishment. When Cameron decided to fuck off, he should have been replaced by someone who truly believed in brexit. We were handed someone who didn’t & is now being laughed at and pushed around by Europe. God knows where this will end up.
Don't remember too many complaints from anyone when she got the gig.
Still I guess people need someone to blame.
You'd also think that appointing a brexiter as brexiter secretary at the department for leaving the EU might have done a job...
I have said on here recently that I don't mind another Referendum......but I won't ever vote again in any election (GE or local). Don't bother to ask for my vote because you can't deliver what you asked me.
I now truely beleive that Brexit can not be acheived. We can not leave the EU. It is simply not possible unless either ;
1) There is a United Ireland so the border problem is not an issue.
or
2) Some hard nosed Politician does the unthinkable & agrees to (and builds) a hard border between NI & ROI
Probably everything else can be sorted out.....eventually. But the above problem cant. Not now.Maybe in 20 -30 years time perhaps.
I agree Golfie. We have totally been let down by the establishment. When Cameron decided to fuck off, he should have been replaced by someone who truly believed in brexit. We were handed someone who didn’t & is now being laughed at and pushed around by Europe. God knows where this will end up.
Don't remember too many complaints from anyone when she got the gig.
Still I guess people need someone to blame.
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing but it did seem strange having a remainer lead the negotiations.
As an aside, how does seeking to (very publicly) open back channels, avoiding the EU's nominated negotiating team, demonstrate how Mrs May has always treated the EU with respect?
Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab said there was no "credible alternative" on the table from the EU at the talks.
So it's up to the 27 to provide solutions regarding our decision to leave?
What is hard to understand in 'we will not accept anything that goes against the core principles of the single market and customs union'?
And the crying over the way the EU are handling this. Saw a tweet from Piers Morgan earlier about needing a strong leader to wipe the smile off Tusk's face.
What does he expect? Yes, we need a strong leader, but our approach has been a shit show. Is it any wonder the EU are taking the piss and laughing at us.
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
It feel like that thing when you're spittingly angry with your bigger brother, and he hold you at arms length with his palm on your forehead, as you furiously swing blows at him.
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
I have said on here recently that I don't mind another Referendum......but I won't ever vote again in any election (GE or local). Don't bother to ask for my vote because you can't deliver what you asked me.
I now truely beleive that Brexit can not be acheived. We can not leave the EU. It is simply not possible unless either ;
1) There is a United Ireland so the border problem is not an issue.
or
2) Some hard nosed Politician does the unthinkable & agrees to (and builds) a hard border between NI & ROI
Probably everything else can be sorted out.....eventually. But the above problem cant. Not now.Maybe in 20 -30 years time perhaps.
I agree Golfie. We have totally been let down by the establishment. When Cameron decided to fuck off, he should have been replaced by someone who truly believed in brexit. We were handed someone who didn’t & is now being laughed at and pushed around by Europe. God knows where this will end up.
The two candidates were Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom.
Leadsom was a strong campaigner for Leave and continues to be strongly pro-Brexit.
What do you think she would have been able to achieve by this point, had she been made Prime Minster?
I have said on here recently that I don't mind another Referendum......but I won't ever vote again in any election (GE or local). Don't bother to ask for my vote because you can't deliver what you asked me.
I now truely beleive that Brexit can not be acheived. We can not leave the EU. It is simply not possible unless either ;
1) There is a United Ireland so the border problem is not an issue.
or
2) Some hard nosed Politician does the unthinkable & agrees to (and builds) a hard border between NI & ROI
Probably everything else can be sorted out.....eventually. But the above problem cant. Not now.Maybe in 20 -30 years time perhaps.
I agree Golfie. We have totally been let down by the establishment. When Cameron decided to fuck off, he should have been replaced by someone who truly believed in brexit. We were handed someone who didn’t & is now being laughed at and pushed around by Europe. God knows where this will end up.
Don't remember too many complaints from anyone when she got the gig.
Still I guess people need someone to blame.
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing but it did seem strange having a remainer lead the negotiations.
May "Brexit means Brexit" - she also ruled out membership of the single market and customs union and pushed through Article 50 triggering without a clue on what Brexit would or could look like.
Her two appointed ministers to lead (cough) the negotiations - Davies and Raab - both rabid Brexiteers.
Her Foreign Secretary until he made his move for leadership by resigning - a frothing at the mouth Brexiteer (although we all know he wrote two versions of his Telegraph column to be printed immediately after the referendum).
What more could the tories have done to support Brexit?
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
Cant agree with that analogy @stop shouting , I've given 2 choices to leave out of the 3 questions, Number 1 is stay in, Number 2 leave (with no-deal), Number 3 here is the deal do you want it or not. If the answer to Number 3 is don't want the deal (whatever that looks like), then we leave, and if they do want the deal (whatever it looks like) we leave but with a deal.
I have said on here recently that I don't mind another Referendum......but I won't ever vote again in any election (GE or local). Don't bother to ask for my vote because you can't deliver what you asked me.
I now truely beleive that Brexit can not be acheived. We can not leave the EU. It is simply not possible unless either ;
1) There is a United Ireland so the border problem is not an issue.
or
2) Some hard nosed Politician does the unthinkable & agrees to (and builds) a hard border between NI & ROI
Probably everything else can be sorted out.....eventually. But the above problem cant. Not now.Maybe in 20 -30 years time perhaps.
I agree Golfie. We have totally been let down by the establishment. When Cameron decided to fuck off, he should have been replaced by someone who truly believed in brexit. We were handed someone who didn’t & is now being laughed at and pushed around by Europe. God knows where this will end up.
The two candidates were Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom.
Leadsom was a strong campaigner for Leave and continues to be strongly pro-Brexit.
What do you think she would have been able to achieve by this point, had she been made Prime Minster?
Probably the most hypothetical I’ve ever been asked. I’ll answer that Chizz if you answer how long a piece of string is 😃
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
Cant agree with that analogy @stop shouting , I've given 2 choices to leave out of the 3 questions, Number 1 is stay in, Number 2 leave (with no-deal), Number 3 here is the deal do you want it or not. If the answer to Number 3 is don't want the deal (whatever that looks like), then we leave, and if they do want the deal (whatever it looks like) we leave but with a deal.
Splitting the leave vote between two options seems very fair....
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
That's the key - a deal cannot be delivered and May & Co thinking it can be are just deluded.
The only alternatives are to just leave or to cancel the whole shitfest and stay. If (and it won't happen) there was another referendum then those are the two choices.
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
Cant agree with that analogy @stop shouting , I've given 2 choices to leave out of the 3 questions, Number 1 is stay in, Number 2 leave (with no-deal), Number 3 here is the deal do you want it or not. If the answer to Number 3 is don't want the deal (whatever that looks like), then we leave, and if they do want the deal (whatever it looks like) we leave but with a deal.
Splitting the leave vote between two options seems very fair....
Ok, then drop the no-deal question and wrap it up in Question 3 (somehow). The point I'm trying to make is, when the original referendum took place, neither side of the argument told the full truth, however now we've got a better idea of what leaving seems to be meaning, do people still feel the same. But to give a direct leave/remain option again would be pointless, lets put facts on the ballot paper. It's no different to when we vote for a new government, every 5 years, we choose based on what we are told by each party who we want to vote for, however if we then find out what we are told is wrong, we have a choice to change in 5 years and go to another colour of government. Sadly with the referendum its a finite answer, with little opportunity, if any, to change it later should it go 'tits up'. Its like the Scottish question, those who wanted independence (not my vote should I have been eligible) were told that people are voting as of now and unless there was a fundamental change there would not be another vote. Scottish people see leaving the EU as a fundamental change, and are now asking for another vote as they want to be part of the EU, Westminster (all parties except the SNP) are saying no! So what, if anything is a fundamental change then? All I'm saying now we have actual facts on the future lets see if the vote is the same. If it is, so be it, but if not then we can try and stay in, however I'm not sure if that would be possible. When I first commented on this thread a few days ago I said I don't comment on political threads in the main, and i think that would be best If I just read from now on, as I do not want to force my views on anyone.
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
Cant agree with that analogy @stop shouting , I've given 2 choices to leave out of the 3 questions, Number 1 is stay in, Number 2 leave (with no-deal), Number 3 here is the deal do you want it or not. If the answer to Number 3 is don't want the deal (whatever that looks like), then we leave, and if they do want the deal (whatever it looks like) we leave but with a deal.
Splitting the leave vote between two options seems very fair....
When I first commented on this thread a few days ago I said I don't comment on political threads in the main, and i think that would be best If I just read from now on, as I do not want to force my views on anyone.
That would be a real shame - apart from the obvious trolls - everyone should be able to comment and give their opinion, people disagree, that's life, we're all adults here and should be able to debate what is probably the most important decision the UK has ever faced.
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
Cant agree with that analogy @stop shouting , I've given 2 choices to leave out of the 3 questions, Number 1 is stay in, Number 2 leave (with no-deal), Number 3 here is the deal do you want it or not. If the answer to Number 3 is don't want the deal (whatever that looks like), then we leave, and if they do want the deal (whatever it looks like) we leave but with a deal.
Splitting the leave vote between two options seems very fair....
When I first commented on this thread a few days ago I said I don't comment on political threads in the main, and i think that would be best If I just read from now on, as I do not want to force my views on anyone.
That would be a real shame - apart from the obvious trolls - everyone should be able to comment and give their opinion, people disagree, that's life, we're all adults here and should be able to debate what is probably the most important decision the UK has ever faced.
Thanks for saying that @Stu_of_Kunming, but whilst we will have to agree to disagree, sometimes it is sensible, for me, to sit back and read. I used to be heavily involved in politics, through family, but of late with all the 'lies' and half-truths that fly around from every quarter, I find today's politicians as being, in the main, in it for themselves (take BoJo as an example), and very inward looking (Trump). The world is moving into a protectionist idyll, one that I cant agree with. However I do agree that Brexit is the most important decision to be made, thats why I want the people asked again once we know what, if any, the deal is and what it means to the man in the street.
Just heard a Tory MP saying she (May) gave a British Bulldog speech!!! Really, only if it was Bulldog chewing a wasp, it was hardly Churchillian!! Once again she is saying look we don't like what you are offering us, so you must change. Again I ask why they should change, WE voted to leave, we are not being thrown out, so why do they need to come up with a compromise, as I said above you reap what you sow, we said we wanted to leave, so although I don't agree with it, (leaving), she should go back to the people and say look this is where we are and offer 3 questions on the ballot paper. Keep the status quo and remain, leave with no-deal or here is the deal do you want it or not?
That’s just a back handed way of trying to remain! All three options are shit with remain probably the best. We voted to leave, we can’t say now “oh we can’t really deliver so let’s forget all this leave nonsense and vote again”. This is why we should a brexiteer leading the negotiation, not a remainer who’s heart isn’t in it.
Cant agree with that analogy @stop shouting , I've given 2 choices to leave out of the 3 questions, Number 1 is stay in, Number 2 leave (with no-deal), Number 3 here is the deal do you want it or not. If the answer to Number 3 is don't want the deal (whatever that looks like), then we leave, and if they do want the deal (whatever it looks like) we leave but with a deal.
Splitting the leave vote between two options seems very fair....
When I first commented on this thread a few days ago I said I don't comment on political threads in the main, and i think that would be best If I just read from now on, as I do not want to force my views on anyone.
That would be a real shame - apart from the obvious trolls - everyone should be able to comment and give their opinion, people disagree, that's life, we're all adults here and should be able to debate what is probably the most important decision the UK has ever faced.
Thanks for saying that @Stu_of_Kunming, but whilst we will have to agree to disagree, sometimes it is sensible, for me, to sit back and read. I used to be heavily involved in politics, through family, but of late with all the 'lies' and half-truths that fly around from every quarter, I find today's politicians as being, in the main, in it for themselves (take BoJo as an example), and very inward looking (Trump). The world is moving into a protectionist idyll, one that I cant agree with. However I do agree that Brexit is the most important decision to be made, thats why I want the people asked again once we know what, if any, the deal is and means to the man in the street.
I actually agree with a people's vote, but one that is fair, I don't recall who, but someone outined something (last week maybe) that I really agreed with, I'll try to go back and find it.
Looking very much like a no deal to me. No foreseeable comprises look like closing the gulf that obviously exists. May trying to look like “the Iron Lady” and only achieves blancmange.
T May complains of the EU27 offering "only" two options for a post Brexit agreement, but seems quite pleased her Government could manage just the one. Sounds like a no deal announcement in effect.
But Parliament gets the final say remember - therefore surely the only options that can really be put in front of them are leave without a deal or stay?
Well the financial markets aren’t sharing the charlton life concerns. Ftse absolutely flying 👍
The £ has fallen against the Euro and Dollar since May's statement which could mean dearer imports. However FTSE and £ will move on a hourly and daily basis. A good measure would be to see how both indices fair over the next few weeks, (maybe End Sept), which is before any more EU summits (October is the next one) and people have time to digest the current situation.
Comments
So it's up to the 27 to provide solutions regarding our decision to leave?
What is hard to understand in 'we will not accept anything that goes against the core principles of the single market and customs union'?
May trying to look like “the Iron Lady” and only achieves blancmange.
Still I guess people need someone to blame.
You'd also think that appointing a brexiter as brexiter secretary at the department for leaving the EU might have done a job...
What does he expect? Yes, we need a strong leader, but our approach has been a shit show. Is it any wonder the EU are taking the piss and laughing at us.
Leadsom was a strong campaigner for Leave and continues to be strongly pro-Brexit.
What do you think she would have been able to achieve by this point, had she been made Prime Minster?
Her two appointed ministers to lead (cough) the negotiations - Davies and Raab - both rabid Brexiteers.
Her Foreign Secretary until he made his move for leadership by resigning - a frothing at the mouth Brexiteer (although we all know he wrote two versions of his Telegraph column to be printed immediately after the referendum).
What more could the tories have done to support Brexit?
The only alternatives are to just leave or to cancel the whole shitfest and stay. If (and it won't happen) there was another referendum then those are the two choices.
However I do agree that Brexit is the most important decision to be made, thats why I want the people asked again once we know what, if any, the deal is and what it means to the man in the street.
Apart from CEO bonuses, an increase in the paper value of the top 100 UK public companies does jack shit for the man on the Clapham omnibus.