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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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Comments

  • Powerful graphic except Jo Cox is misspelt.
  • Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
  • @PragueAddick reading your post reminds me of the pictures from the Welsh town that voted Remain. It was the day after the referendum and the news item showed various massive billboards showing that various things like roads, health centres, swimming pools, schools etc had been built with EU money. They even interviewed somebody right in front of one who said that the EU had done nothing for the town.

    My point is that decades of negativity from the Brexit press trumped facts.
  • edited February 2018
    And to prove the value of Eurobarometer, and especially for @Southbank, here is one of the more top line questions, overall image of the EU. Year 2000 up to now
  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/tory-mps-sign-letter-to-theresa-may-outlining-hard-brexit-goals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    And this one. The worst thing about this one is the fact that it depicts just how far apart the two sides of the Tory party still are.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t most of what will happen after we leave need to be concluded by October for a March 2019 exit? At this rate we may get an agreement from the Tory party about what colour ties delegates wear to the meetings in October, but not much else
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  • Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?

    I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
  • The Today programme on Radio 4 came live from Calais. I don't know whether militant Brexiteer @nth london addick business still runs trucks through Calais regularly. If so he can get used to them sitting in 15kms queues, sitting ducks for stowaways.

    The programme reported that nothing has been done to build the new customs sheds and modern scanning equipment needed to process the 2 million trucks which head through Calais every year. That is because nobody over there has the faintest idea what kind of Brexit is actually going to be agreed on. 13 months to go, tick tock, tick tock.

  • edited February 2018
    cabbles said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/20/tory-mps-sign-letter-to-theresa-may-outlining-hard-brexit-goals?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    And this one. The worst thing about this one is the fact that it depicts just how far apart the two sides of the Tory party still are.

    Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t most of what will happen after we leave need to be concluded by October for a March 2019 exit? At this rate we may get an agreement from the Tory party about what colour ties delegates wear to the meetings in October, but not much else

    Well that can't be right surely...after all we all knew exactly what we were voting on according to the Leave narrative being pushed now!

  • stonemuse said:

    Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?

    I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
    Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...

  • stonemuse said:

    Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?

    I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
    Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...

    Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
  • Southbank said:

    stonemuse said:

    Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?

    I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
    Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...

    Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
    However you make the mistake of assuming that these populists have

    - "exit" as their key proposition
    - collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue

    This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).








  • Southbank said:

    stonemuse said:

    Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?

    I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
    Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...

    Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
    However you make the mistake of assuming that these populists have

    - "exit" as their key proposition
    - collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue

    This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).








    No, I do not assume that. If they have anything in common it is opposition to the status quo or to the elites and generally speaking the most status quo and elitist parties across Europe happen to be pro EU (I know there are exceptions but it broadly holds).


  • Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.
  • Fiiish said:

    Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.

    'We disagreed with' does not mean 'untrue'. Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
  • Southbank said:

    Southbank said:

    stonemuse said:

    Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.

    It's all there.

    The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?

    I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
    Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...

    Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
    However you make the mistake of assuming that these populists have

    - "exit" as their key proposition
    - collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue

    This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).








    No, I do not assume that. If they have anything in common it is opposition to the status quo or to the elites and generally speaking the most status quo and elitist parties across Europe happen to be pro EU (I know there are exceptions but it broadly holds).


    Ah yes, the "elites" again. How dare they be educated and pursue moderate political policies, all across Europe. Not like those plain speaking honest toiling working class populists such as Farage, Rees-Mogg, Le Pen, Wilders...oh, hang on..

    Enough, I'm off to explore Eurobarometer, so brace yourself, @Southbank, death by a thousand graphs awaits you, my friend...

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  • edited February 2018
    There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK.
    Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?

    EDIT PS
    I think he may have been an Irish Ambassador previously, not a minister.
  • Southbank said:

    Fiiish said:

    Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.

    'We disagreed with' does not mean 'untrue'. Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
    Agreed. Aaron Banks net worth £250m - Rees-Mogg net worth £45m.

    Or were you attempting to be sarcastic? ;-)
  • bobmunro said:

    Southbank said:

    Fiiish said:

    Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.

    'We disagreed with' does not mean 'untrue'. Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
    Agreed. Aaron Banks net worth £250m - Rees-Mogg net worth £45m.

    Or were you attempting to be sarcastic? ;-)
    If I had the time I could add up the wealth of the pro EU versus the anti EU people across Europe. But lets start with just one, George Soros, in the news because he is co funding an anti Brexit ad campaign here over the next few weeks-net worth 25 billion.
    Now you add up the net worth of the pro Brexit people and if you can get them all to add up to 25b I will easily find many more pro EU billionaires.
  • Southbank said:

    Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.

    Finally something we agree on.
  • seth plum said:

    There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK.
    Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?

    A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : -
    ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
  • Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.

    Finally something we agree on.
    You changed your mind again. Welcome to our side.
  • seth plum said:

    There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK.
    Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?

    A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : -
    ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
    Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?

    I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
  • seth plum said:

    There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK.
    Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?

    A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : -
    ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
    Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?

    I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
    Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.

This discussion has been closed.

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