The great thing about Trump is he waits to get a detailed picture of events before passing comment. We're lucky to have such a shrewd and wise operator as President during these troubled times.
I think the USA should extend the travel ban to include European countries given recent terrorist events here.
The great thing about Trump is he waits to get a detailed picture of events before passing comment. We're lucky to have such a shrewd and wise operator as President during these troubled times.
I think the USA should extend the travel ban to include European countries given recent terrorist events here.
I would be happy with just extending the travel ban to Trump visiting the UK.
Mate we feel like a single parent with an incredibly difficult child. You have to understand we really relish the time when he's away. We finally get some bloody peace and quiet. Please do us this favor?
LAS said it had taken 18 people to a number of London hospitals. “None are thought to be in a serious or life-threatening condition,” a statement said. Four others went to hospitals independently.
So I really don't want to make this all about Trump. He's probably a bit part player in all this. But the second of his tweets about the attack is sort of concerning: shutting off internet access. In the States we're already having net neutrality compromised, and that's before you get into the massive domestic surveillance programs. I'm pretty sure this is just a 71 year old man saying the first thing that comes to his head about topics he doesn't understand, but the idea of trying to "cut people off from the internet" is terrifying.
The only thing that needs cutting off is the idiots twitter account.
He still tweets from his same old unsecured Android phone too (according to Maggie Haberman on the Longform podcast).
Look I digress, thoughts and love with the people effected by this. No one should have to fear getting on a train. Whatever side of the political aisle you're on, whatever your thoughts on how to do it, we all, unquestionably, want this to stop.
The great thing about Trump is he waits to get a detailed picture of events before passing comment. We're lucky to have such a shrewd and wise operator as President during these troubled times.
I think the USA should extend the travel ban to include European countries given recent terrorist events here.
The great thing about Trump is he waits to get a detailed picture of events before passing comment. We're lucky to have such a shrewd and wise operator as President during these troubled times.
I think the USA should extend the travel ban to include European countries given recent terrorist events here.
I would be happy with just extending the travel ban to Trump visiting the UK.
Mate we feel like a single parent with an incredibly difficult child. You have to understand we really relish the time when he's away. We finally get some bloody peace and quiet. Please do us this favor?
Its a bit late to expect Trump to tweet anything thoughtful or intelligent. To come out and disrespect the law of our land is a piss take when somehing like this happens.
because Donald trump is the issue here, sort of the problem in itself more people are more worried about scoring points about there dislike for him, compared to people going round blowing people up. the way we do deal with people that share these radical views is laughable fair play to him for questioning it, kids have gone to concerts and not come back because of these wastes of oxygen. thats me assuming it is a islamic radical terrorist, if its not ill be hugely suprised.
Generally, after any terror incident, we have the following two trains of thought:
1) Don't react/rise to it. Keep going as is, keep acting lawfully, and remember that these people are not at all representative of the ideology they claim to adhere to.
2) Tighten up laws and security (e.g. the lethal injection comment). Perhaps increase state powers so we are better prepared to prevent terrorist attacks/apprehend the perpetrators.
By and large, you will find the "lefty soppy liberal naive wankers" under point 1, and the "right-wing fascist racist bastards" under point 2.
I'd like to take both points 1 and 2 to (what I see as) their logical conclusions, hopefully fairly balancing their upsides and downsides.
1) We create an environment more welcoming to marginalised; minority; or persecuted groups. We attempt to bond/socialise/identify with said groups, thereby (presumably) leading to fewer incidences of terror after we create a welcoming society in which there is no incentive to create division.
However, this comes at the risk of terror groups taking advantage of opening up a social dialogue, who would then continue to attack our freedoms/ideas/values/infrastructure/population.
2) We tighten up laws re terrorism. We hand over more powers to the authorities. This has the (presumed) benefit of ensuring fewer incidences of terror, as the authorities are better-equipped to prevent them. We would also be able to persecute terrorists to a greater extent, thereby disincentivising perpetrators from carrying out attacks.
However, this would potentially lead society as a whole to compromise certain civil liberties - e.g. freedom of speech; increased surveillance; special/emergency powers restricting freedoms for *all* in the event of a threat. In turn, this could lead toward more of a police state, with an increased societal division/less cohesion and cosmopolitanism. This in turn could lead to more marginalised people getting radicalised.
[NB I forgot to consider immigration/asylum, but basically 1) more open borders = better societally for already-settled minority populations, but more risk; and 2) closed borders = less risk, but possibly more marginalising for minorities.]
--------------------
Ultimately, I would guess that people like Leuth/Chizz/myself would take point number 1 over point number 2. That's because of the values we hold dearest - freedom of expression; movement; thought; and all those classically liberal ideas. This comes at a risk of safety.
Those who'd rather point 2, by extension, hold safety and a strong state safety net in higher regard, even if that means compromising civil liberties. This comes at the risk of a more fractured and divided society.
The question is - what do you hold dearest? For me, it will always be ideas, freedoms, and an open society.
... I'm not quite sure what my initial point was going to be, so much as - when you're debating with someone on such a topic, perhaps it's worth considering their values - and examining your own. I've thought about this and am willing to trade off safety for inclusivity (to be *very* basic about it). Others might not be.
because Donald trump is the issue here, sort of the problem in itself more people are more worried about scoring points about there dislike for him, compared to people going round blowing people up. the way we do deal with people that share these radical views is laughable fair play to him for questioning it, kids have gone to concerts and not come back because of these wastes of oxygen. thats me assuming it is a islamic radical terrorist, if its not ill be hugely suprised.
I mean, he's the President of the United States, I'm old enough to remember when that was a big deal...
Here's the thing, he's not questioned how Britain reacts to things, he's just said random things about his travel ban which doesn't apply here and cutting off the internet which doesn't make sense.
Nobody is "Team Terrorism" here. Everybody is team "fuck those guys." But people have different opinions as to how we deal with terrorism, yours isn't the only one, and you and your opinion don't have a monopoly on who is most concerned. We're all concerned.
Generally, after any terror incident, we have the following two trains of thought:
1) Don't react/rise to it. Keep going as is, keep acting lawfully, and remember that these people are not at all representative of the ideology they claim to adhere to.
2) Tighten up laws and security (e.g. the lethal injection comment). Perhaps increase state powers so we are better prepared to prevent terrorist attacks/apprehend the perpetrators.
By and large, you will find the "lefty soppy liberal naive wankers" under point 1, and the "right-wing fascist racist bastards" under point 2.
I'd like to take both points 1 and 2 to (what I see as) their logical conclusions, hopefully fairly balancing their upsides and downsides.
1) We create an environment more welcoming to marginalised; minority; or persecuted groups. We attempt to bond/socialise/identify with said groups, thereby (presumably) leading to fewer incidences of terror after we create a welcoming society in which there is no incentive to create division.
However, this comes at the risk of terror groups taking advantage of opening up a social dialogue, who would then continue to attack our freedoms/ideas/values/infrastructure/population.
2) We tighten up laws re terrorism. We hand over more powers to the authorities. This has the (presumed) benefit of ensuring fewer incidences of terror, as the authorities are better-equipped to prevent them. We would also be able to persecute terrorists to a greater extent, thereby disincentivising perpetrators from carrying out attacks.
However, this would potentially lead society as a whole to compromise certain civil liberties - e.g. freedom of speech; increased surveillance; special/emergency powers restricting freedoms for *all* in the event of a threat. In turn, this could lead toward more of a police state, with an increased societal division/less cohesion and cosmopolitanism. This in turn could lead to more marginalised people getting radicalised.
[NB I forgot to consider immigration/asylum, but basically 1) more open borders = better societally for already-settled minority populations, but more risk; and 2) closed borders = less risk, but possibly more marginalising for minorities.]
--------------------
Ultimately, I would guess that people like Leuth/Chizz/myself would take point number 1 over point number 2. That's because of the values we hold dearest - freedom of expression; movement; thought; and all those classically liberal ideas. This comes at a risk of safety.
Those who'd rather point 2, by extension, hold safety and a strong state safety net in higher regard, even if that means compromising civil liberties. This comes at the risk of a more fractured and divided society.
The question is - what do you hold dearest? For me, it will always be ideas, freedoms, and an open society.
... I'm not quite sure what my initial point was going to be, so much as - when you're debating with someone on such a topic, perhaps it's worth considering their values - and examining your own. I've thought about this and am willing to trade off safety for inclusivity (to be *very* basic about it). Others might not be.
I think that this is very similar to the Apple vs Android debate.
I'm concerned that Trump is President because he's patently ill equipped to manage complex world affairs. His only strategy seems to be to send out inane tweets and to contradict himself constantly.
Whatever your politics I can't fathom why anyone thinks he's fit to be President? Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see how he can manage this?
We are all united in our hatred of terrorism and only a FOOL would say there is a simple answer.
The good thing is whoever put that there will surely now be visible on the tube CCTV so police will have a clear picture of who to hunt
yep and when they find them they will probably get 25 years if that.
lee rigby killers one got 45 years and hes only 20 something so will probably be out in the world again one day - unless someone hopefully does him in, the other got a whole life tarriff.
if your prepared to make bombs and detonate them on tubes, your prepared to kill/injure mulitple people.
Just a little clarification. Lee Rigby's two killers (I'm not going to name the pathetic individuals) both pleaded not guilty, were convicted at trial and sentenced to life, which is the only sentence available for murder in this country. One was given a minimum tariff of 45 years. The other was given a whole life tariff. Both appealed their sentences. Both appeals were rejected at the High Court.
One of these pathetic individuals will spend 45 years rotting in jail before he is allowed to apply for parole. The Home Secretary at that time (who may not even have been born yet) will get the final say on whether he's released.
The other one will rot and die in jail, without ever being given the chance to apply for parole.
This is how we do it in this country. We follow the law. And, by continuing to do so, we continue to demonstrate why we are better - much, much better - than the evil, pathetic scumbags who want to disrupt the way we live.
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
I agree, to a degree - and put my hands up to it.
But, if there is any solution to this, the President of the United States of America will have a full and crucial part to play.
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
A president who put himself into the discussion.
You almost make it sound as if anyone who doesn't write a generic "I detest terrorists" post on a football forum shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything else remotely connected to the subject.
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
I agree, to a degree - and put my hands up to it.
But, if there is any solution to this, the President of the United States of America will have a full and crucial part to play.
Tbf, if the North Korean lunatic unleashed an H Bomb on another country tomorrow, some on here would blame Trump directly. The day is coming, on here, when poor old Donald is blamed for high inflation, me backing a short head loser and Charlton getting hammered by Gillingham.
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
However people spell things out for you which must have been done a million times you still don't really get it. The concern of many is that we have a President whose main response to terrorist events is to send ludicrous half baked tweets and impose nonsensical travel bans.
I along with many others would like a solution to the terrorist threat rather than people just constantly telling us terrorists are bad dudes. Trump is one of the most powerful people in the world and the fact that he's such a Grade A dumbarse just makes the terrorist threat worse.
I'm sure everyone agrees terrorists are awful people but moving forward we need to find a solution. I don't really know how you expect people to communicate?
And still people would rather write about their hatred for a President based thousands of miles away, than the evil, twisted slags who plant bombs on a train. Unbelievable.
I agree, to a degree - and put my hands up to it.
But, if there is any solution to this, the President of the United States of America will have a full and crucial part to play.
Tbf, if the North Korean lunatic unleashed an H Bomb on another country tomorrow, some on here would blame Trump directly. The day is coming, on here, when poor old Donald is blamed for high inflation, me backing a short head loser and Charlton getting hammered by Gillingham.
Works both ways. Others knee jerk into blaming Khan etc while they are virtue signaling about how they would bring back capital punishment etc.
No one is supporting the terrorist (although some think its OK if they're "on our side") in this.
If Trump behaved like a normal politician and showed a bit of decorum then people might not comment on him. We need to find a solution to the problem which involves a bit of intelligence and not knee-jerk reactions.
There are plenty of lessons to be learnt from history.
Comments
Look I digress, thoughts and love with the people effected by this. No one should have to fear getting on a train. Whatever side of the political aisle you're on, whatever your thoughts on how to do it, we all, unquestionably, want this to stop.
I hope the injuries aren't too life changing and that whoever did this gets caught and held to account asap.
There , that should help.
the way we do deal with people that share these radical views is laughable fair play to him for questioning it, kids have gone to concerts and not come back because of these wastes of oxygen.
thats me assuming it is a islamic radical terrorist, if its not ill be hugely suprised.
1) Don't react/rise to it. Keep going as is, keep acting lawfully, and remember that these people are not at all representative of the ideology they claim to adhere to.
2) Tighten up laws and security (e.g. the lethal injection comment). Perhaps increase state powers so we are better prepared to prevent terrorist attacks/apprehend the perpetrators.
By and large, you will find the "lefty soppy liberal naive wankers" under point 1, and the "right-wing fascist racist bastards" under point 2.
I'd like to take both points 1 and 2 to (what I see as) their logical conclusions, hopefully fairly balancing their upsides and downsides.
1) We create an environment more welcoming to marginalised; minority; or persecuted groups. We attempt to bond/socialise/identify with said groups, thereby (presumably) leading to fewer incidences of terror after we create a welcoming society in which there is no incentive to create division.
However, this comes at the risk of terror groups taking advantage of opening up a social dialogue, who would then continue to attack our freedoms/ideas/values/infrastructure/population.
2) We tighten up laws re terrorism. We hand over more powers to the authorities. This has the (presumed) benefit of ensuring fewer incidences of terror, as the authorities are better-equipped to prevent them. We would also be able to persecute terrorists to a greater extent, thereby disincentivising perpetrators from carrying out attacks.
However, this would potentially lead society as a whole to compromise certain civil liberties - e.g. freedom of speech; increased surveillance; special/emergency powers restricting freedoms for *all* in the event of a threat. In turn, this could lead toward more of a police state, with an increased societal division/less cohesion and cosmopolitanism. This in turn could lead to more marginalised people getting radicalised.
[NB I forgot to consider immigration/asylum, but basically 1) more open borders = better societally for already-settled minority populations, but more risk; and 2) closed borders = less risk, but possibly more marginalising for minorities.]
--------------------
Ultimately, I would guess that people like Leuth/Chizz/myself would take point number 1 over point number 2. That's because of the values we hold dearest - freedom of expression; movement; thought; and all those classically liberal ideas. This comes at a risk of safety.
Those who'd rather point 2, by extension, hold safety and a strong state safety net in higher regard, even if that means compromising civil liberties. This comes at the risk of a more fractured and divided society.
The question is - what do you hold dearest? For me, it will always be ideas, freedoms, and an open society.
... I'm not quite sure what my initial point was going to be, so much as - when you're debating with someone on such a topic, perhaps it's worth considering their values - and examining your own. I've thought about this and am willing to trade off safety for inclusivity (to be *very* basic about it). Others might not be.
Here's the thing, he's not questioned how Britain reacts to things, he's just said random things about his travel ban which doesn't apply here and cutting off the internet which doesn't make sense.
Nobody is "Team Terrorism" here. Everybody is team "fuck those guys." But people have different opinions as to how we deal with terrorism, yours isn't the only one, and you and your opinion don't have a monopoly on who is most concerned. We're all concerned.
Whatever your politics I can't fathom why anyone thinks he's fit to be President? Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see how he can manage this?
We are all united in our hatred of terrorism and only a FOOL would say there is a simple answer.
But, if there is any solution to this, the President of the United States of America will have a full and crucial part to play.
You almost make it sound as if anyone who doesn't write a generic "I detest terrorists" post on a football forum shouldn't be allowed to talk about anything else remotely connected to the subject.
The day is coming, on here, when poor old Donald is blamed for high inflation, me backing a short head loser and Charlton getting hammered by Gillingham.
I along with many others would like a solution to the terrorist threat rather than people just constantly telling us terrorists are bad dudes. Trump is one of the most powerful people in the world and the fact that he's such a Grade A dumbarse just makes the terrorist threat worse.
I'm sure everyone agrees terrorists are awful people but moving forward we need to find a solution. I don't really know how you expect people to communicate?
No one is supporting the terrorist (although some think its OK if they're "on our side") in this.
There are plenty of lessons to be learnt from history.