Whats going on?. Almost 60 postings and yet not one person has mentioned the train type or its number, how is a good trainspotting Addick supposed to manage.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid.
Perish the thought that I would try to do that I just think that you have settled for what in 2017 is a second rate railway. As you will discover when we draw Bayern in the Champions league...
On this "overcrowding". The Tory politicians invariably claim that this is a consequence of the "success" of the privatised railway. That is arrant bollocks, it is of course due to the fact that there are 10 million more people in the country than when the thing was privatised. And which Labour politician has the basic wherewithal to point that out? I never heard one.
I travel by train a lot and think that the serice generally is very good.
My one gripe is that even though advanced purchase train tickets can be very reasonable, prices for people needing to travel at short notice can be horrific.
We do not encourage people enough to use our trains.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
Well that of course works both ways. You havn't had my experiences either so your view is just as useless.
As for your half a dozen away rail journeys last season I think that would be mostly weekends ? You wouldn't necessarily experience the problems that people having to use the networks weekdays experience. I'll accept HS1 is perhaps different but it bloody well should be. It's our flagship service isn't it. Get yourself onto some of the commuter lines and ask a few people what they think.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
Well that of course works both ways. You havn't had my experiences either so your view is just as useless.
As for your half a dozen away rail journeys last season I think that would be mostly weekends ? You wouldn't necessarily experience the problems that people having to use the networks weekdays experience. I'll accept HS1 is perhaps different but it bloody well should be. It's our flagship service isn't it. Get yourself onto some of the commuter lines and ask a few people what they think.
Exactly. Or anyone in the North West, taken in by Osborne's Northern Powerhouse bullshit, only to find that Grayling has cancelled their upgrade, while proceeding with Crossrail 2. What a knob that bloke is. I was reading about the north west lines. They still use a train called a Pacer. It is literally a bus on tracks. It was substandard in 1990 when I worked with BR on their advertising.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
Well that of course works both ways. You havn't had my experiences either so your view is just as useless.
As for your half a dozen away rail journeys last season I think that would be mostly weekends ? You wouldn't necessarily experience the problems that people having to use the networks weekdays experience. I'll accept HS1 is perhaps different but it bloody well should be. It's our flagship service isn't it. Get yourself onto some of the commuter lines and ask a few people what they think.
I have travelled on the 05.53 from Shortlands to Victoria for the past six years. Delayed/cancelled no more than fives during this period.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
Well that of course works both ways. You havn't had my experiences either so your view is just as useless.
As for your half a dozen away rail journeys last season I think that would be mostly weekends ? You wouldn't necessarily experience the problems that people having to use the networks weekdays experience. I'll accept HS1 is perhaps different but it bloody well should be. It's our flagship service isn't it. Get yourself onto some of the commuter lines and ask a few people what they think.
I make lots of other journeys, including on the SE London commuter lines. I haven't commuted since 1989 and I get that carries its own frustrations - it always did - but actually the off-peak service on the commuter lines is very much better than it was in the 1980s when the railway was so starved of funds that we had two trains an hour on the Bexleyheath line. For a number of years the last train left London at 23.12, six days a week. The last Sidcup was six minutes later.
There are now six trains an hour off-peak, and you can get back from Victoria to Welling until midnight or later, as well as Charing Cross. Until the 80s there wasn't even a peak service to Victoria from the Dartford lines. The frequency and pattern of service is much, much better now than it was then, whatever the shortcomings in peak periods.
Many ducks are among the fastest-flying birds in level flight. You'll find plenty of them on this list - and bear in mind the falcon and albatross are gravity- and wind-assisted respectively https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_by_flight_speed
Many ducks are among the fastest-flying birds in level flight. You'll find plenty of them on this list - and bear in mind the falcon and albatross are gravity- and wind-assisted respectively https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_by_flight_speed
Is the "Grey-headed Albatross" grey-headed because it flies so fast it gets that nasty insect splatter on its bonce?
the 11-08am from Lee to London Bridge last Friday was two minutes late, but it has only four carriages and was jam packed. Only four carriages for no reason I could work out.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid.
Perish the thought that I would try to do that I just think that you have settled for what in 2017 is a second rate railway. As you will discover when we draw Bayern in the Champions league...
On this "overcrowding". The Tory politicians invariably claim that this is a consequence of the "success" of the privatised railway. That is arrant bollocks, it is of course due to the fact that there are 10 million more people in the country than when the thing was privatised. And which Labour politician has the basic wherewithal to point that out? I never heard one.
I'm not a supporter of privatised railways, you'll be surprised to hear, but claiming the increase in passenger numbers is wholly or mainly explained by population growth is just silly.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid.
Perish the thought that I would try to do that I just think that you have settled for what in 2017 is a second rate railway. As you will discover when we draw Bayern in the Champions league...
On this "overcrowding". The Tory politicians invariably claim that this is a consequence of the "success" of the privatised railway. That is arrant bollocks, it is of course due to the fact that there are 10 million more people in the country than when the thing was privatised. And which Labour politician has the basic wherewithal to point that out? I never heard one.
I'm not a supporter of privatised railways, you'll be surprised to hear, but claiming the increase in passenger numbers is wholly or mainly explained by population growth is just silly.
What's silly about it? If a population increases by 10 million (and BTW no other EU country has seen such an increase) then the market for journeys - by whatever mode - increases, right? Because people need to travel.
I have no idea why you linked to that article. You realise what the Rail Delivery Group are, right?
Now if that article had details about rail taking an increasing % share of all journeys, you might have been on to something. But it doesn't. And even if it has increased its share, to prove that this was down to a "better" railway it would be necessary to prove that most people made a positive choice about rail, as opposed to being forced onto rail by the state of the motorways, which are also way more crowded again due in large part to the fact there are a lot more people.
In fact the increases in passenger growth in France and Germany tend to prove my point because those countries have not seen anything like the population growth, and Germany's motorways certainly keep up with demand. People there have made positive choices about rail. Another growth factor would be increased wealth, encouraging leisure travel. But in Britain yet another unique factor in rail growth would be the cost of housing in London, forcing people to live further and further out to commute.
I take your point on off-peak SE services, but frankly they are only at the level that they should be for a rich global metropolis, especially as there is no Tube out our way. And as for the rush hour, well I read the SE Trains thread just to remind myself how lucky I am to have escaped all that shit.
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid.
Perish the thought that I would try to do that I just think that you have settled for what in 2017 is a second rate railway. As you will discover when we draw Bayern in the Champions league...
On this "overcrowding". The Tory politicians invariably claim that this is a consequence of the "success" of the privatised railway. That is arrant bollocks, it is of course due to the fact that there are 10 million more people in the country than when the thing was privatised. And which Labour politician has the basic wherewithal to point that out? I never heard one.
I'm not a supporter of privatised railways, you'll be surprised to hear, but claiming the increase in passenger numbers is wholly or mainly explained by population growth is just silly.
What's silly about it? If a population increases by 10 million (and BTW no other EU country has seen such an increase) then the market for journeys - by whatever mode - increases, right? Because people need to travel.
I have no idea why you linked to that article. You realise what the Rail Delivery Group are, right?
Now if that article had details about rail taking an increasing % share of all journeys, you might have been on to something. But it doesn't. And even if it has increased its share, to prove that this was down to a "better" railway it would be necessary to prove that most people made a positive choice about rail, as opposed to being forced onto rail by the state of the motorways, which are also way more crowded again due in large part to the fact there are a lot more people.
In fact the increases in passenger growth in France and Germany tend to prove my point because those countries have not seen anything like the population growth, and Germany's motorways certainly keep up with demand. People there have made positive choices about rail. Another growth factor would be increased wealth, encouraging leisure travel. But in Britain yet another unique factor in rail growth would be the cost of housing in London, forcing people to live further and further out to commute.
I take your point on off-peak SE services, but frankly they are only at the level that they should be for a rich global metropolis, especially as there is no Tube out our way. And as for the rush hour, well I read the SE Trains thread just to remind myself how lucky I am to have escaped all that shit.
Are you seriously saying that population growth of under 20 per cent is responsible for passenger growth of 100 per cent?
I travel by train a lot and think that the serice generally is very good.
My one gripe is that even though advanced purchase train tickets can be very reasonable, prices for people needing to travel at short notice can be horrific.
We do not encourage people enough to use our trains.
If we have record numbers of people using the railway and severe overcrowding, then encouraging people to use the trains isn't a problem!
When you compare most of the intercity lines out of London with BR days, frequency and capacity are much higher, nowhere else in a Europe has the frequencies we have between say London and Birmingham or Manchester
I travel by train a lot and think that the serice generally is very good.
My one gripe is that even though advanced purchase train tickets can be very reasonable, prices for people needing to travel at short notice can be horrific.
We do not encourage people enough to use our trains.
If we have record numbers of people using the railway and severe overcrowding, then encouraging people to use the trains isn't a problem!
When you compare most of the intercity lines out of London with BR days, frequency and capacity are much higher, nowhere else in a Europe has the frequencies we have between say London and Birmingham or Manchester
I don't see overcrowding on my travels around the country on a Saturday.
Love it. Only on here could a thread that started as an observation about a train seat double booking degenerate into a peeing contest about the state of the UK privatised rail operators!
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Well, I use HS1 much more than any other line and I find it efficient, convenient and reliable - so "the whole rail network is a national embarrassment" isn't true as far as I'm concerned.
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
Well that of course works both ways. You havn't had my experiences either so your view is just as useless.
As for your half a dozen away rail journeys last season I think that would be mostly weekends ? You wouldn't necessarily experience the problems that people having to use the networks weekdays experience. I'll accept HS1 is perhaps different but it bloody well should be. It's our flagship service isn't it. Get yourself onto some of the commuter lines and ask a few people what they think.
I have travelled on the 05.53 from Shortlands to Victoria for the past six years. Delayed/cancelled no more than fives during this period.
I'm not sure where Shortlands is, but that must be one hell of a slow train.
Love it. Only on here could a thread that started as an observation about a train seat double booking degenerate into a peeing contest about the state of the UK privatised rail operators!
Quality.
Not forgetting Elfsborg needing a dump on the way home from portsmouth. Threads been derailed
Let's face it the whole rail network is a national embarrassment. Trains full and rarely get above 60 mph.
Yesterday we were on train between Plymouth and Totnes and a duck was flying parallel to the train and slowly overtook us.
At least it's cheap and good value for money.
HS1 is excellent. I didn't travel to Plymouth by train as we drove to Exeter on Tuesday and stayed down there, but had numerous good train trips last season - Chesterfield, Fleetwood (Blackpool), Peterborough, Walsall, Rochdale. I think we all tend to base our views on bad experiences and forget they are not the norm.
On the contrary I think too many Brits do not have transport, and especially the railways, higher up their personal political agendas because they have not experienced enough of the railways in other advanced European countries. Remind me how long HS1 is again...70 miles? Wow. Lines like that are standard across the whole of Germany, covering virtually every major conurbation. And of course unlike on HS1, you don't have to pay a "premium" just because the train goes slightly faster than the ones to Plymouth built in Derek Hales' day. The French have just opened an upgrade of the TGV line to Bordeaux. 2hours and 3 minutes from Paris, if you please. That will pretty much eliminate Air France from that route as it has other domestic air routes. Name me one domestic air route in the UK that has been decimated because of rail competition. Not the routes Eurostar serves because Eurostar is so bloody expensive. I am a fan, but Eurostar justify their pricing on the basis that it is a "premium" service compared with having to go to an airport.
All this comes about because since I have been old enough to vote, public transport has been at or near the bottom of the political agenda. The Transport Ministry is regarded as one for high flyers, both the ministers and the civil servants, to avoid. Even after it became lethally dangerous to travel on the railways in the Railtrack era, I don't remember it being anywhere near the top of the agenda at the next general election. Now of course we have a vague muttering from Corbyn that he will "renationalise" it, without any detail, and particularly without any indication that Labour has studied best practice in countries where the railways are better. In Germany, DB is actually a private company, albeit the State is the main shareholder, and it has to compete on an increasing number of routes, but the whole system remains fully integrated. Apart from Eurostar, in the last 3-4 years I have experienced Virgin to Manchester twice. It was sort of OK, but not cheap. And Ipswich from Stratford for that evening game where I was with you - you had driven up. It was shite. People of course sitting in our reserved seats, but again like the OP here, a mother and child, so we stood. We could not have sought out another seat because you literally could not move down the train. On the way back the toilets were disgusting, the heating didn't work, and of course the idea of buying a beer to console us, either in the station or on the train, was out of the question. Still if even you, probably the most senior experienced politician in our ranks, think its all kinda OK, then well you get the trains you deserve. Choo-choo!
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
Record numbers of passengers equals record levels of revenue, which should in turn equal record levels of investment in the network. But it doesn't, it equals record profits for shareholders' pockets.
The long distance services are generally okay, albeit at a higher price than comparable services in other countries.
Commuter services are a disgrace (unless you pay the premium for HS1). Barely a week goes by without South Eastern having a full system meltdown.
Love it. Only on here could a thread that started as an observation about a train seat double booking degenerate into a peeing contest about the state of the UK privatised rail operators!
Quality.
Not forgetting Elfsborg needing a dump on the way home from portsmouth. Threads been derailed
Not sure about the thread being derailed, but the next train along the tracks could be.
Love it. Only on here could a thread that started as an observation about a train seat double booking degenerate into a peeing contest about the state of the UK privatised rail operators!
I joined the railway in 1984 and left in 2000. During that time, very little was done to take into consideration the expanding population other than the idea of pricing the people off of the rush hour trains and making the off peak prices cheaper so to entice them over to the later departures. It didn't work. The biggest problem was they forgot that the reason people use the rush hour trains was because they had to be at work at a reasonable time. But, they did see the unexpected bonus of increasing profits because people we (not willingly) paying the higher price simply because they had too get to work. It was a win bonus for the share holders
Comments
Fares are certainly too high in general and the network suffers from historic under-investment and crap operators, but a lot of the problems are caused by overcrowding (record numbers of passengers).
I went on half a dozen away rail journeys last season - the last problem I recall was Sheffield in 2011/12. So as much as you may have had problems, I'm happy with the experience I've had and you don't really get to tell me otherwise, I'm afraid - because you weren't there and cannot have a useful view.
On this "overcrowding". The Tory politicians invariably claim that this is a consequence of the "success" of the privatised railway. That is arrant bollocks, it is of course due to the fact that there are 10 million more people in the country than when the thing was privatised. And which Labour politician has the basic wherewithal to point that out? I never heard one.
My one gripe is that even though advanced purchase train tickets can be very reasonable, prices for people needing to travel at short notice can be horrific.
We do not encourage people enough to use our trains.
As for your half a dozen away rail journeys last season I think that would be mostly weekends ? You wouldn't necessarily experience the problems that people having to use the networks weekdays experience. I'll accept HS1 is perhaps different but it bloody well should be. It's our flagship service isn't it. Get yourself onto some of the commuter lines and ask a few people what they think.
There are now six trains an hour off-peak, and you can get back from Victoria to Welling until midnight or later, as well as Charing Cross. Until the 80s there wasn't even a peak service to Victoria from the Dartford lines. The frequency and pattern of service is much, much better now than it was then, whatever the shortcomings in peak periods.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/14/train-journey-numbers-double-since-privatisation-railways-uk-report
Only 4 bloody carriages so the train is rather crowded. Unfortunately both toilets are out of order and I'm dying for a poo!
I moved quicker than Usain Bolt into the front four carriages and found a toilet available. There is a God after all!!!!
I have no idea why you linked to that article. You realise what the Rail Delivery Group are, right?
Now if that article had details about rail taking an increasing % share of all journeys, you might have been on to something. But it doesn't. And even if it has increased its share, to prove that this was down to a "better" railway it would be necessary to prove that most people made a positive choice about rail, as opposed to being forced onto rail by the state of the motorways, which are also way more crowded again due in large part to the fact there are a lot more people.
In fact the increases in passenger growth in France and Germany tend to prove my point because those countries have not seen anything like the population growth, and Germany's motorways certainly keep up with demand. People there have made positive choices about rail. Another growth factor would be increased wealth, encouraging leisure travel. But in Britain yet another unique factor in rail growth would be the cost of housing in London, forcing people to live further and further out to commute.
I take your point on off-peak SE services, but frankly they are only at the level that they should be for a rich global metropolis, especially as there is no Tube out our way. And as for the rush hour, well I read the SE Trains thread just to remind myself how lucky I am to have escaped all that shit.
When you compare most of the intercity lines out of London with BR days, frequency and capacity are much higher, nowhere else in a Europe has the frequencies we have between say London and Birmingham or Manchester
Quality.
Threads been derailed
The long distance services are generally okay, albeit at a higher price than comparable services in other countries.
Commuter services are a disgrace (unless you pay the premium for HS1). Barely a week goes by without South Eastern having a full system meltdown.
The biggest problem was they forgot that the reason people use the rush hour trains was because they had to be at work at a reasonable time. But, they did see the unexpected bonus of increasing profits because people we (not willingly) paying the higher price simply because they had too get to work. It was a win bonus for the share holders