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Murder in Greenwich.

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  • Read about this yesterday. RIP to the victim. Disgusting.
  • What a waste of a life! I hope they catch those responsible asap.

    I hope the family get all the support they need to get through this.
  • A pregnant woman has had acid thrown over her baby bump in yet another horrific attack.

    The incident occurred in East London
    where the woman's partner also sustained injuries to his face.

    There needs to be some serious thoughts on how to tackle this shit
  • A pregnant woman has had acid thrown over her baby bump in yet another horrific attack.

    The incident occurred in East London
    where the woman's partner also sustained injuries to his face.

    There needs to be some serious thoughts on how to tackle this shit

    Pretty hard to tackle - seems destined to replace knife crime. How do you stop access to it?

    Heavy sentences might act as a deterrent and it's frightening how casually it's used.

  • Without sounding like a soft hearted liberal I used to think that sentencing was the answer

    But now I think it's part of it a big part but we need to deal with the root which is the breakdown in the home
  • Without sounding like a soft hearted liberal I used to think that sentencing was the answer

    But now I think it's part of it a big part but we need to deal with the root which is the breakdown in the home

    There are some terrifyingly f***ed up people on our streets - we have a very fractured society. Heavier sentencing may help but you need to work with people and rehabilitate them otherwise nothing will change.

    I've heard numerous ex gang members speak and there is a huge problem out there. The casual attitude towards violence from those who have nothing to lose is pretty terrifying.

    Cutting staffing levels in prisons and young offenders institutes will only make things worse and offenders won'the break the cycle.


  • Do heavy sentences act as a deterrent? One way to test this out is to ask people what they think the maximum sentence would be for injuring someone by spraying someone with an acid from a plastic spray bottle.

    The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?

    The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.

    But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?

    The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.

    What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.
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  • He was close friends to George Barker, who was fatality stabbed in Bexley a few months ago. Im pretty sure the incidents aren't related, its just a tragic coincidence.
  • edited July 2017
    Chizz said:

    Do heavy sentences act as a deterrent? One way to test this out is to ask people what they think the maximum sentence would be for injuring someone by spraying someone with an acid from a plastic spray bottle.

    The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?

    The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.

    But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?

    The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.

    What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.

    Chizz said:

    Do heavy sentences act as a deterrent? One way to test this out is to ask people what they think the maximum sentence would be for injuring someone by spraying someone with an acid from a plastic spray bottle.

    The newspapers and the Government are debating this issue. Should sentences be longer? Would that stop the spike in acid attacks?

    The point is, there is already a very heavy sentence for this sort of attack. Causing GBH with intent (which this clearly is) carries a maximum life sentence. The heaviest sentence possible in UK law.

    But is it a deterrent if no-one knows? And, if Parliament are debating it, doesn't that demonstrate that too few people know what the sentencing guidelines are?

    The point I'm making is that it's a waste of time calling on the Government to increase the sentence for this crime (as some people have been doing) for two reasons. First, because they are adequately punitive, even if they're not properly promulgated. And second, the Government doesn't actually set sentencing guidelines: they're set outside Parliament, by a non governmental administrative organisation.

    What needs to be done is for the consequences to be properly learned by anyone considering perpetrating this abhorrent crime; and by their associates.

    You argument assumes that we can communicate and break through to these people. That may well work for the 12 - 13 year olds on the edges of gangs and crime but is not going to be effective for those already neck deep in gang violence and culture.

    Sure. A multi pronged approach but for me I want these people off the streets for periods where they are effectively removed from street violence for good. Catch them and when caught lock them up for a very long time.

    If that works as a deterrent then all well and good but if not the streets are still a bit safer.

    Edit: I know the maximum sentence for GBH is life. Point being that it's not being applied. I want mandatory sentences where GBH carries a minimum 25 years. The law is there. It must be applied to its full force.

  • 1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.

    Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.

  • edited July 2017
    Longer sentencing is a real deterrent but only when the courts apply those sentences


    Baldy that's the whole issue In a nutshell , when I was coaching youth football I became the only male influence on several of the kids , I ended up having to be almost fatherly to them in the context of ensuring they followed the right path but it gets to a point as they grow older that it isn't enough and they follow the easier more interesting route ,

    When those who bring these kids into the world realise that they need more than just food and drink , clothes etc to become decent reflections of themselves then we can start to repair the damage

    It needs to start in the home it needs to reach out to those who are now grand parents reaching back out to their own kids and in return reaching those young enough to still be influenced correctly

    It's a long journey a thankless task at times but it is achievable if enough people within the communities impacted (which is all of us) look to support by whatever means possible and it's def not about putting your hand in your pockets
    But finding out who is doing what in your neighbourhood and making contact and just saying I am here I want to help what can I do to assist you in spreading this message

    A lot of people don't feel they are able to be good parents they are scared and they feel their actions can't be reversed which is incorrect and with help and support and education they can start the repairs
  • edited July 2017
    .
  • He was close friends to George Barker, who was fatality stabbed in Bexley a few months ago. Im pretty sure the incidents aren't related, its just a tragic coincidence.

    Did they ever catch who did that? Don't remember reading about it going to trial or anything
  • 1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.

    Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.

    You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.

    If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.


  • 1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.

    Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.

    You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.

    If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.


    did I mention young offenders Institues? no I said Prisons. A big difference!
  • Stig said:

    Really tragic and senseless.

    There seems to be no deterrent to stop this happening, or do the perpetrators think they can get away with it?

    Perpetrators always think they can get away with it; if they thought they were going to get caught, they wouldn't do it.

    That's why (sadly) harsh sentences don't act as much of a deterrent.
    The casual attitude towards using violence is truly shocking - as a society we seem too accepting of it.

    you only have to watch kids computer games to see where it comes from.
    I remember Jack the Ripper used to play GTA Online all the time.

    What an ill-informed comment.
    Perhaps I shouldn't have said kids computer games, as most kids watch over 15/18 games.
    Other than that I stand by what I said. Youngsters watching violent scenes for sometimes hours on end cannot be a good thing.
  • 1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.

    Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.

    You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.

    If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.


    did I mention young offenders Institues? no I said Prisons. A big difference!
    There are cuts across the prison service which limits rehabilitation and makes them more dangerous. If imprisoning people is the only strategy it won't work.

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  • I fully support the three strikes rule but fuck me we would need to build a lot of prisons
  • 1. stop making prisons holiday camps. 2. Mandatory prison sentences for violent crime 3, 3 strikes your out rule.

    Add this to giving police full stop and search powers and zero tolerance for anyone carrying weapons.

    You should read the recent report on young offenders institutes by Peter Clarke HM Chief Inspector of Prisons before trotting out the ill informed 'holiday camps' argument. You need to rehabilitate offenders who are coming out into society and this isn't happening due to cuts.

    If you don't look at the causes of crime then you won't get very far. Simply locking people up in what is frequently a brutal environment with no path to rehabilitate will simply make people worse.


    did I mention young offenders Institues? no I said Prisons. A big difference!
    There are cuts across the prison service which limits rehabilitation and makes them more dangerous. If imprisoning people is the only strategy it won't work.

    On the news last they said NO `childrens' prisons in England and Wales were safe for the `children' and the staff.
  • Heavy sentences aren't a deterrent if you don't think you're going to get caught.
  • How many times has the maximum sentence been prescribed for carrying a knife ?
  • aliwibble said:

    Heavy sentences aren't a deterrent if you don't think you're going to get caught.

    That's what's got to change. We need more police officers with the support to do what's necessary to catch these psychopaths.

    For god sake. Police can't chase a criminal on a motor cycle for fear of them falling off. No wonder the criminals feel invincible.

  • The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is 4 years in prison and an unlimited fine. You’ll get a prison sentence if you’re convicted of carrying a knife more than once.

    Why 'more than once'
  • until the sentences get upped nothing will change, as with most things in this once good country we have gone too pc it starts in the schools teachers and the police are the kids friends now, a lot put blame on single parents - got nothing to do with it, been brought up by my mum since i was 6, i haven't carried a knife or stabbed someone.

    all these experts on it bang on about education - that's also bollocks - its the culture that you don't want to work and you think your some sort of gangster.

    i saw a video yesterday of 4 shitbags on a moped robbing people, like ffs i would like to see them chased and then preferably crash into a wall, instead of see them go in prison and probably come out worse than they went in. people shouldn't be scared in there own homes or driving around, i think if you want to carry weapons/break into peoples homes then your fair game and if you get hurt your problem.


  • until the sentences get upped nothing will change, as with most things in this once good country we have gone too pc it starts in the schools teachers and the police are the kids friends now, a lot put blame on single parents - got nothing to do with it, been brought up by my mum since i was 6, i haven't carried a knife or stabbed someone.

    all these experts on it bang on about education - that's also bollocks - its the culture that you don't want to work and you think your some sort of gangster.

    i saw a video yesterday of 4 shitbags on a moped robbing people, like ffs i would like to see them chased and then preferably crash into a wall, instead of see them go in prison and probably come out worse than they went in. people shouldn't be scared in there own homes or driving around, i think if you want to carry weapons/break into peoples homes then your fair game and if you get hurt your problem.


    To be fair the sentences don't need to be upped. A knife wounding or acid attack are classed as GBH with intent. The maximum sentence for this crime is life in prison.

    I agree that carrying a knife or now acid needs to attract a mandatory sentence greater than what is currently given.

    The three strikes and you're out policy needs to be seriously looked out for a specified range of offences in my opinion.

  • edited July 2017
    As Chizz points out, I don't think tougher sentences would help. They are already very tough. These people don't think they will ever get caught, so jail time is irrelevant to them.

    I also don't think that fighting the root cause will help in the short term because there's already a lot of very messed up people out there.

    For me, the best deterrent that would reduce acid attacks significantly, but would never get adopted (and probably rightly so) would be to quite simply replicate any acid attacks wound on the perpetrator were they to be caught, and then put them in prison. An eye for an eye makes us all blind, but I guarantee it would make them think more than a prison sentence. I know I would prefer a long stint in prison to acid.

    I just feel there is something unique about a crime that effects your appearance and therefore unfortunately the way that everyone around you sees you.
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