Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

ClientEarth v HM Government; the fight back against our polluted air and damaged lungs

Good, in my opinion, to see the Government fail in the Courts on the issue of air pollution and public health.
Ministers have been told to provide details of a strategy to combat air pollution [strategy, ha!!] in the very near future.
bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39737981

Comments

  • This government don't have such a good time in the courts, what with losing the issue of obtaining Parliamentary approval before triggering article 50 and then losing the appeal.

    The Torys still have the electoral fraud prosecutions hanging over them with 14 forces still investigating
  • It's all the fault of those Eastern Europeans here.

    They exhale more frequently than an Anglo Saxon.
  • Addickted said:

    It's all the fault of those Eastern Europeans deisels here.

    They exhale more frequently than an Anglo Saxon a bicycle.

  • The government has prevaricated over this issue and the judge, recognising the importance of it all, gave the government's lawyer a hard time. The air pollution issue is not of the Tories’ making alone (although I consider them culpable and guilty of crimes against the environment). They are, however, in power and have had time aplenty to formulate a strategy to combat air pollution and benefit the public’s health.
    ClientEarth is a grouping of Environmental Lawyers who took the government to court due to the latter’s failure to act. Good on the Judge, say I, for telling Mrs May to get on with it, pronto.
    https://clientearth.org/
  • The government has prevaricated over this issue and the judge, recognising the importance of it all, gave the government's lawyer a hard time. The air pollution issue is not of the Tories’ making alone (although I consider them culpable and guilty of crimes against the environment). They are, however, in power and have had time aplenty to formulate a strategy to combat air pollution and benefit the public’s health.
    ClientEarth is a grouping of Environmental Lawyers who took the government to court due to the latter’s failure to act. Good on the Judge, say I, for telling Mrs May to get on with it, pronto.
    https://clientearth.org/

    We should revert to using horses instead of cars.
  • Sponsored links:


  • Stig said:

    don't think it should have been allowed. there are certain protocols when a general election has been called & the courts have gone against it..........they even said that the Government had to do it after the local elections but before the general one..........making the local elections more important. How weird is that - then again, when did a judge ever be living in the real world. Left wing apologists all of them.

    Yeah right, because having little kids breath fresh air is less important than May's politically motivated election isn't it? Let them get their house in order before sodding about with an election that we genuinely don't need.
    who was it that brought in lower car tax for diesel cars & promoted drivers to go diesel...........Gordon Brown's government. The choice for drivers now is either to buy a petrol car & sod the environment or buy a diesel car & sod the human race.
  • se9addick said:

    McBobbin said:

    Having met a few judges... Left wing?!? Goodness gracious.

    Surprised they gave you a chance to ask them about their political leanings from the dock !
    Oooooh you cheeky get!
  • Stig said:

    don't think it should have been allowed. there are certain protocols when a general election has been called & the courts have gone against it..........they even said that the Government had to do it after the local elections but before the general one..........making the local elections more important. How weird is that - then again, when did a judge ever be living in the real world. Left wing apologists all of them.

    Yeah right, because having little kids breath fresh air is less important than May's politically motivated election isn't it? Let them get their house in order before sodding about with an election that we genuinely don't need.
    who was it that brought in lower car tax for diesel cars & promoted drivers to go diesel...........Gordon Brown's government. The choice for drivers now is either to buy a petrol car & sod the environment or buy a diesel car & sod the human race.
    To be fair the scientific advice has changed. Any government would have done the same then.
  • It has to be pointed out that Euro5 and Euro6 standard diesels aren't a problem as they levels of NOx are comprable to petrol cars whilst producing half the CO2. It's Euro4 and older diesels that are the problem. Even if the government went down the hard line and banned Euro 5 and older diesels, that still cars older than 3 years that are being banned, not new diesels. There is no reason to not buy a new diesel.

    The problem is the government have been incredibly bad at communicating this, whilst headline writers think "Diesels to be banned" is a far catchier headline than "Some diesels over a certain age that don't meet the latest standards may get banned from certain places".
  • edited April 2017

    Stig said:

    don't think it should have been allowed. there are certain protocols when a general election has been called & the courts have gone against it..........they even said that the Government had to do it after the local elections but before the general one..........making the local elections more important. How weird is that - then again, when did a judge ever be living in the real world. Left wing apologists all of them.

    Yeah right, because having little kids breath fresh air is less important than May's politically motivated election isn't it? Let them get their house in order before sodding about with an election that we genuinely don't need.
    who was it that brought in lower car tax for diesel cars & promoted drivers to go diesel...........Gordon Brown's government. The choice for drivers now is either to buy a petrol car & sod the environment or buy a diesel car & sod the human race.
    I have no desire to defend Gordon Brown whatsoever. But that was then and this is now. As you've stated, drivers are not currently encouraged to make the best environmental choices. That is bad news for everyone and is something that desperately needs addressing. That is why it's important that the current government, the one that's in a position to do something about it, needs to act rather than fannying around with an election that will benefit no-one except May and her cohorts.
  • thing is, just how will the government persuade us all to abandon our cars and take the bus/tube/train/boat/walk or whatever to do our shopping, travel to and from work, take holidays and all the other things that we do in and with our vehicles.
    Can the government persuade the haulage industry to scrap hundreds of thousands of trucks, lorries and vans and use clean electric or cleaner petrol as fuel for new fleets ? .. little chance methinks without huge subsidies and the associated upheaval and economic impact.
    It seems that nowadays 'the government' is to be blamed for everything and never a thought for how the habits and behaviour of the 'general public' are to blame for problems like pollution and many other problems which 'the government should do something about'.
    As with rifles and guns in America, one of the slogans of the NRA is 'I'll give up mine when you give up yours' .. the same can be said for vehicle owners in the UK
  • edited April 2017
    I'm a commuting cyclist and have been very affected by the recent poor air quality, especially when the weather was cold in mid-February.
    I find it inconceivable that the New Lie-Bore Government didn't have knowledge of and access to data about the dangers of micro-particulates (e.g. PM10s) arising from diesel engines and it's a disgrace that the facts were not widely publicised. I was campaigning on transport and associated air quality issues with direct action group Reclaim The Streets twenty years ago and we were banging on about the hazard of micro-particulates. Who listened? Tory Blur and Jack-Boot Straw were busy sending in the Met's Kettle Cops.

    If our 'air' was bottled and sold in shops, what would the labels say? "Contains benzene, particulates, NOx, CO2, lead...." etc. Who would buy it? No-one would. Yet we're made to breathe it and the Tories seek to kick the problem down the road. What a wheeze.

    There is validity in the argument, made by others, above, that modern diesels are less polluting than older engines, but new technology alone will not suffice. Much more needs to be done to promote walking, cycling and provide cheaper public transport. Fares went up and up under Mayor Boris Johnson. Tories charging more? Who'd have thought it!

    The Tories have to be hauled through the courts before they will act. I have little faith in what they'll come up with. Hand-outs for a diesel scrappage / trade-in scheme, perhaps? How about some meaningful tax-breaks for commuting cyclists, Mrs May?

    As the election approaches, let's hope that more people will realise that they hold the key to realising a Left / Green coalition that could, if given the opportunity, bring about positive change. What a breath of fresh air that would be.
  • It has to be pointed out that Euro5 and Euro6 standard diesels aren't a problem as they levels of NOx are comprable to petrol cars whilst producing half the CO2. It's Euro4 and older diesels that are the problem. Even if the government went down the hard line and banned Euro 5 and older diesels, that still cars older than 3 years that are being banned, not new diesels. There is no reason to not buy a new diesel.

    The problem is the government have been incredibly bad at communicating this, whilst headline writers think "Diesels to be banned" is a far catchier headline than "Some diesels over a certain age that don't meet the latest standards may get banned from certain places".

    Are the NOx output levels from the official tests believable? It's not just VW who seem to have been fiddling the test data, and even where no actual fiddling has taken place, in the real world results are often different. This applies to many of the modern small engined turbo petrol cars as well, which are emitting higher level of NOx than older petrol engines.

    It's slightly unfair to blame Brown/Blair by themselves for the diesel fiasco, as this has been common policy across the EU. Nobody else has adopted diesel like the EU; the US, Japan and China have a fraction of the number of diesel cars.
  • don't think it should have been allowed. there are certain protocols when a general election has been called & the courts have gone against it..........they even said that the Government had to do it after the local elections but before the general one..........making the local elections more important. How weird is that - then again, when did a judge ever be living in the real world. Left wing apologists all of them.

    You are being very selective with your 'certain protocols' - they can (should?) be ignored when an issue relates to public health.

    And what's with judges being 'left-wing apologists'? They are one of the most middle-class (at least), right-wing groups around.
  • National road user charging is the (very unpopular) answer
  • Sponsored links:


  • edited April 2017
    The following text is from an invitation from the No to Silvertown Tunnel group, which I'm posting here for your information.

    No to Silvertown Tunnel - Spring 2017 update and notice of AGM

    What’s happening with the Silvertown Tunnel?
    We’re coming to the end of Transport for London’s application to build the Silvertown Tunnel.
    The public examination into the scheme - effectively a fast-tracked planning inquiry - closed on 11 April. The inspectors have three months to give their recommendations to the Secretary of State for Transport, then we should get a final decision in the early autumn.
    We’ve had volunteers present at most of the hearings since the process began back in October. The examination - which has been very thorough - has uncovered flaws and contradictions in TfL’s case for building the tunnel and charging for both it and the Blackwall Tunnel.
    The process is, in part, meant to resolve problems with the scheme and encourage parties to find common ground.
    But the boroughs - even those that support the tunnel - are still unhappy with TfL’s traffic modelling, upon which its predictions of congestion and pollution depend. TfL has also been making some late changes to the scheme, which raise new questions about the validity of its modelling.

    While we wait for the final decision, we’d like to thank all those who wrote to the Planning Inspectorate to offer their reasons why the Silvertown Tunnel should be rejected.
    You can see all the papers and submissions on the Planning Inspectorate website.

    Four local groups - based in and around Beckenham, Blackheath, Brockley and Eltham - carried out air quality studies a few weeks ago thanks to money donated at the funeral of one of our volunteers.
    Terry Grant, who died last July, helped us with our original air quality studies in 2013 and 2014.
    We wanted to honour his memory, so funded some groups that hadn’t done air quality studies before so they could measure the pollution in their own areas.

    The groups carried out their studies in March, and we’re looking forward to seeing the results. Thanks to Andrew Wood at Network for Clean Air for helping us and the groups with these studies.

    What happens next? Come to our annual general meeting
    We’d like to invite you to No to Silvertown Tunnel‘s annual general meeting. It’ll be at Mycenae House, Blackheath, on Tuesday 16 May at 8pm.
    With the end of the planning process near, we’ll need to make some decisions about the future of the campaign. Here’s the agenda for the meeting.
    Mycenae House is 10 minutes’ walk from Westcombe Park station (trains from Cannon Street, Greenwich and Woolwich Arsenal) and close to bus routes 53, 54, 108, 202, 380, 386 and 422. There’s a licensed bar, which will also be open after the meeting.
    So please come along – it’ll be great to see you. As always, if you have any questions, please drop us a line on [email protected]

    Best wishes,
    No to Silvertown Tunnel

    cleanairuk.org/
  • The following text is from an invitation from the No to Silvertown Tunnel group, which I'm posting here for your information.

    No to Silvertown Tunnel - Spring 2017 update and notice of AGM

    What’s happening with the Silvertown Tunnel?
    We’re coming to the end of Transport for London’s application to build the Silvertown Tunnel.
    The public examination into the scheme - effectively a fast-tracked planning inquiry - closed on 11 April. The inspectors have three months to give their recommendations to the Secretary of State for Transport, then we should get a final decision in the early autumn.
    We’ve had volunteers present at most of the hearings since the process began back in October. The examination - which has been very thorough - has uncovered flaws and contradictions in TfL’s case for building the tunnel and charging for both it and the Blackwall Tunnel.
    The process is, in part, meant to resolve problems with the scheme and encourage parties to find common ground.
    But the boroughs - even those that support the tunnel - are still unhappy with TfL’s traffic modelling, upon which its predictions of congestion and pollution depend. TfL has also been making some late changes to the scheme, which raise new questions about the validity of its modelling.

    While we wait for the final decision, we’d like to thank all those who wrote to the Planning Inspectorate to offer their reasons why the Silvertown Tunnel should be rejected.
    You can see all the papers and submissions on the Planning Inspectorate website.

    Four local groups - based in and around Beckenham, Blackheath, Brockley and Eltham - carried out air quality studies a few weeks ago thanks to money donated at the funeral of one of our volunteers.
    Terry Grant, who died last July, helped us with our original air quality studies in 2013 and 2014.
    We wanted to honour his memory, so funded some groups that hadn’t done air quality studies before so they could measure the pollution in their own areas.

    The groups carried out their studies in March, and we’re looking forward to seeing the results. Thanks to Andrew Wood at Network for Clean Air for helping us and the groups with these studies.

    What happens next? Come to our annual general meeting
    We’d like to invite you to No to Silvertown Tunnel‘s annual general meeting. It’ll be at Mycenae House, Blackheath, on Tuesday 16 May at 8pm.
    With the end of the planning process near, we’ll need to make some decisions about the future of the campaign. Here’s the agenda for the meeting.
    Mycenae House is 10 minutes’ walk from Westcombe Park station (trains from Cannon Street, Greenwich and Woolwich Arsenal) and close to bus routes 53, 54, 108, 202, 380, 386 and 422. There’s a licensed bar, which will also be open after the meeting.
    So please come along – it’ll be great to see you. As always, if you have any questions, please drop us a line on [email protected]

    Best wishes,
    No to Silvertown Tunnel

    cleanairuk.org/

    In your opinion what is the answer to the east london river crossing problem? The current congestion around the blackwall tunnel needs to be dealt with.
  • edited April 2017
    So what do you do if you're unable to ride a cycle @Anna_Kissed ?
  • I only know that my white Peugot van leaves an entertaining wake of smoke and choking twitching tourists in the streets down to Looe harbour, and I wouldn't want to miss that for the world.
  • Addickted said:

    So what do you do if you're unable to ride a cycle @Anna_Kissed ?

    Bloody walk.
  • Addickted said:

    So what do you do if you're unable to ride a cycle @Anna_Kissed ?

    Same as me I would think. Get a bus or walk.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out!