@Chizz Please provide sources for each of your claims. And not just links to newspapers, I want proper proof of everything you've put forward please......
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Corbyn won the 2nd of his leadership elections by ~120,000 votes. If any non-extreme left nut jobs want someone else then just get 121,000 people to join up and vote for that candidate. That's what Corbyn did!
But it won't happen. The majority of traditional moderate centre left labour voters are not and never have been Labour Party members. They turn up and vote labour at the polls but have no wish to join a political party. Yes it's to a certain extent apathy but that's exactly why the system of electing the Labour Party leader was tailor made for a left wing coup.
The election was won by being bothered to a) join and b) vote. Get enough people to join and vote for something else using the exact same system and you get a different result. The system is not the problem. Apathy is.
And that's even if you consider that having a socialist in charge of the Labour Party is a coup in the first place. Personally I think Bliar and Brown's hijacking of the party in the 90's and turning them into Tories in red ties was far worse.
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Corbyn won the 2nd of his leadership elections by ~120,000 votes. If any non-extreme left nut jobs want someone else then just get 121,000 people to join up and vote for that candidate. That's what Corbyn did!
But it won't happen. The majority of traditional moderate centre left labour voters are not and never have been Labour Party members. They turn up and vote labour at the polls but have no wish to join a political party. Yes it's to a certain extent apathy but that's exactly why the system of electing the Labour Party leader was tailor made for a left wing coup.
The election was won by being bothered to a) join and b) vote. Get enough people to join and vote for something else using the exact same system and you get a different result. The system is not the problem. Apathy is.
And that's even if you consider that having a socialist in charge of the Labour Party is a coup in the first place. Personally I think Bliar and Brown's hijacking of the party in the 90's and turning them into Tories in red ties was far worse.
Well I think the ballot box will tell us what the average labour voter wants. Corbyn and Momentum or a return to more centrist policies.
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Corbyn won the 2nd of his leadership elections by ~120,000 votes. If any non-extreme left nut jobs want someone else then just get 121,000 people to join up and vote for that candidate. That's what Corbyn did!
But it won't happen. The majority of traditional moderate centre left labour voters are not and never have been Labour Party members. They turn up and vote labour at the polls but have no wish to join a political party. Yes it's to a certain extent apathy but that's exactly why the system of electing the Labour Party leader was tailor made for a left wing coup.
The election was won by being bothered to a) join and b) vote. Get enough people to join and vote for something else using the exact same system and you get a different result. The system is not the problem. Apathy is.
And that's even if you consider that having a socialist in charge of the Labour Party is a coup in the first place. Personally I think Bliar and Brown's hijacking of the party in the 90's and turning them into Tories in red ties was far worse.
Well I think the ballot box will tell us what the average labour voter wants. Corbyn and Momentum or a return to more centrist policies.
A shameless U turn Mrs May and those who tell her what to do, think & say, believe: 1) that Corbyn's mob is an unelectable mess from whom a good few marginal seats can be taken and 2) the current slim tory majority is slim enough to be worrisome as the Conservative corsair drifts rudderless into the dark, uncharted waters of Brexit to face the hitherto unseen fleet of the united states of Europe. On 1) there can be no argument. With 2) only time will tell whether there are sufficient tory remainer zealots with big enough balls to defy the whips and to outnumber the brexiteers in all parties who will refuse to disrupt the process regardless of their instructions. This morning's announcement is nothing more than self-interested election opportunism, I'm not buying the "we're only doing this so we can get brexit done without interference from all the silly people". I'd laugh my cock right off if tomorrow's vote didn't produce the 2/3's majority required to curtail this parliament. If the LibDems, Scots nationalists and tory remainers really want to stick one in Teresa's eye they need to be going all out to scupper the move at the first opportunity. Many who know lots more about Westminster politicking suggest this is unlikely. Come the election: Corbyn's rabble will lose a few marginals but probably not that many, they're already pretty much pared back to their traditional heartlands where tories never prosper and both leading English parties are out of the picture in Scotland. The LibDems are sadly invisible in every real sense and their chances of gaining more than a couple of seats are nil. Sturgeon's crowd are rock solid in Scotland and not bothered about England at all. Indeed the scots nationalists would probably take more seats off Labour in England than the Tories if they chose to stand, Sturgeon herself has more integrity than 90% of English MP's added together. Wales & Ulster always do their own thing in GE's and none of the other parties are worth airtime. Are the same witless turds advising May now as scuppered Cameron with their woefully misplaced fears that Dave might not win the last election? If tomorrow's parliamentary vote goes as expected and an early election is called, ladies and gentlemen we will be presented with a grand early opportunity to cut this vicious, dogmatic tory abomination off at the knees. Winning an early election isn't about smoothing the Brexit business. It's about speeding up the dismantling of the welfare state, the health service, employees rights, lower and lower taxes for the richest. I've never voted Labour in my life, I've voted tory more often than anything else, where I grew up nobody else was ever visible. But this 21st century incarnation of Conservatism is abhorrent, wicked even. Don't get sick or old people cos this cadre of superannuated gravy train guzzlers will just get their chauffeur to drive over your ailing carcass and send your kids a bill for the damage to the Bentley. Brexit is in Downing Street's shaky hands (and their paymasters) and will be what it will be, this election won't change a thing there, we'll just have to cope with the shitty hand we're dealt when it happens. Tories running GB with a more workable majority will be awful, painful and heartless. On June 8, in the interests of all those who might need any sort of looking after post 2018, we have to vote for the candidate most likely to beat the tory. Voting tory will swiftly and directly be to the detriment of those you hold dear who may require the state's help in any way in the months and years to come. For the hard of reading: if you vote conservative you're voting for your granny to die in the street when she and you can't afford the carehome bills anymore; you're voting for legions of homeless begging in doorways the length and breadth of our once proud land; you're voting for closing your local hospital, you're voting for state schools with ever larger class sizes and ever deteriorating classrooms and ever fewer teachers; you're voting away your own old age pension. Don't vote tory and obviously don't vote for any of the racist nutjob gangs either.
Your rhetorical deathray is an altogether far more invigorating prospect when trained on the dark forces dismantling society rather than Icelandic wingers
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Disagree on your first part but agree on the second. It was a fair way of electing a leader, it was just exploited better by Corbyn. Anyone could have signed up if they cared enough about who leads the party. And on your point about him being extreme left by modern standards is quite a sad indictment of how right wing politics has become in the modern day. I still wouldn't say he is extreme left but yes he is much further left than the general political landscape at the moment.
Corbyn is far left by Labour party standards. Even ignoring New Labour, they're previous 2 PMs Wilson and Callaghan were centrist politicians. For every Tony Benn, there were Roy Jenkins, Dennis Healey and Shirley Williams
Yes I understand. My point at the beginning still stands, he is not extreme left. It's a bit like calling UKIP extreme right. I'm sure SHG only brought it up to get in about the trade unions. Not sure why this debate has even been going on this long tbh.
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Disagree on your first part but agree on the second. It was a fair way of electing a leader, it was just exploited better by Corbyn. Anyone could have signed up if they cared enough about who leads the party. And on your point about him being extreme left by modern standards is quite a sad indictment of how right wing politics has become in the modern day. I still wouldn't say he is extreme left but yes he is much further left than the general political landscape at the moment.
Corbyn is far left by Labour party standards. Even ignoring New Labour, they're previous 2 PMs Wilson and Callaghan were centrist politicians. For every Tony Benn, there were Roy Jenkins, Dennis Healey and Shirley Williams
Yes I understand. My point at the beginning still stands, he is not extreme left. It's a bit like calling UKIP extreme right. I'm sure SHG only brought it up to get in about the trade unions. Not sure why this debate has even been going on this long tbh.
People will either not bother or just vote for who they voted for last time.
I'm guessing May knows this.
I do wonder if this will be a very low turnout
I actually think it will be a high turnout as I suspect people will use it as a 2nd referendum, with Brexiters voting Tory and Remainers voting Lib Dem or strategically to block the Tory candidate.
I welcome the news. It is the last chance for the country to stop the disaster that is Brexit. I am not concerned about the national opinion polls. Labour won't lose any seats in London or Scotland. Any sensible Labour voter in the South West is going to vote Liberal Democrat. Any sensible Lib Dem voter in the North will vote Labour. It will be interesting to see how the opinion polls move over the next few weeks in those seats with traditionally high Lib Dem votes.
Gonna be hard for Labour to lose many seats in Scotland. They only have one.
Nobody who is against Brexit will vote for a party supported by a man who is clearly in favour of Brexit.
Yes, I keep forgetting what a disasater Scotland has been for Labour over the last few years. But, I don't see the Tories gaining any seats in Scotland. They will need to win new seats in the South West and the North as well as retaining all their seats in the South east.
People will either not bother or just vote for who they voted for last time.
I'm guessing May knows this.
I do wonder if this will be a very low turnout
Add the fact the general public are 'electioned out' and I think you're probably right. Neither party are bringing much New to the table. In fact Labour have all but crawled under it.
@Chizz Please provide sources for each of your claims. And not just links to newspapers, I want proper proof of everything you've put forward please......
I think I heard James O Brien on LBC call a lot of the claims listed there previously lies as well to be fair, as well as some of the comments sections in the Guardian...
I welcome the news. It is the last chance for the country to stop the disaster that is Brexit. I am not concerned about the national opinion polls. Labour won't lose any seats in London or Scotland. Any sensible Labour voter in the South West is going to vote Liberal Democrat. Any sensible Lib Dem voter in the North will vote Labour. It will be interesting to see how the opinion polls move over the next few weeks in those seats with traditionally high Lib Dem votes.
You do realise that outside the urban trendy areas, the North of England was heavily pro Brexit?
Yes, but about a million of those Brexit voters have died since the referendum vote. Actually, I have no idea how many have died, but it will be a lot more than the number of Remain voters who have died.
You are forgetting that the UK demographics mean that the grey majority will have increased regardless of the death rate.
Doesn't work like that. Surveys show most people are still entrenched in their Brexit/Remain views. Remain voters are not going to change their view just because they are one year older. And the younger generation, including the section of the population that were too young to vote last June cannot be in any doubt now, after the post referendum debate, about how their futures are being screwed over by the older generation, and will be more motivated to actually get off their arses and vote.
I welcome the news. It is the last chance for the country to stop the disaster that is Brexit. I am not concerned about the national opinion polls. Labour won't lose any seats in London or Scotland. Any sensible Labour voter in the South West is going to vote Liberal Democrat. Any sensible Lib Dem voter in the North will vote Labour. It will be interesting to see how the opinion polls move over the next few weeks in those seats with traditionally high Lib Dem votes.
You do realise that outside the urban trendy areas, the North of England was heavily pro Brexit?
Yes, but about a million of those Brexit voters have died since the referendum vote. Actually, I have no idea how many have died, but it will be a lot more than the number of Remain voters who have died.
You are forgetting that the UK demographics mean that the grey majority will have increased regardless of the death rate.
Doesn't work like that. Surveys show most people are still entrenched in their Brexit/Remain views. Remain voters are not going to change their view just because they are one year older. And the younger generation, including the section of the population that were too young to vote last June cannot be in any doubt now, after the post referendum debate, about how their futures are being screwed over by the older generation, and will be more motivated to actually get off their arses and vote.
So, that is your opinion, and one you will get a lot of positive reinforcement for on here. Imagine now, a parallel universe, let's call it, say, the North, where someone is having the exact same topic and discussion, but instead of the vast majority being rabid one minded remainers, it is full of instead, rabid, one minded Brexiters, I can see them saying the exact same thing. All of the pro Brexit posts get likes and all all of the pro remain posts get ridicule (and a few lols).
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Disagree on your first part but agree on the second. It was a fair way of electing a leader, it was just exploited better by Corbyn. Anyone could have signed up if they cared enough about who leads the party. And on your point about him being extreme left by modern standards is quite a sad indictment of how right wing politics has become in the modern day. I still wouldn't say he is extreme left but yes he is much further left than the general political landscape at the moment.
Corbyn is far left by Labour party standards. Even ignoring New Labour, they're previous 2 PMs Wilson and Callaghan were centrist politicians. For every Tony Benn, there were Roy Jenkins, Dennis Healey and Shirley Williams
Yes I understand. My point at the beginning still stands, he is not extreme left. It's a bit like calling UKIP extreme right. I'm sure SHG only brought it up to get in about the trade unions. Not sure why this debate has even been going on this long tbh.
What I said originally was "labour has been hijacked by the extreme left" and I stand by that.
I didn't bring anything up to specifically talk about Trade Unions. I only did so to highlight the fact that it is a trade union leader who is now kingmaker with regards to the labour leader. I don't think anyone would argue that McClusky got Ed elected over David and subsequently Corbyn over his opponents. McClusky is very left wing. Add to his disproportionate say we have Momentum and other fringe left wing groups who now have a home in what's left of the Labour Party.
At least it gives Labour a chance to get rid of Corbyn in 2017 instead of waiting until after he would have lost in 2020.
Yeah. John McDonnell will have Labour voters flooding back and the Tories bricking it.
The Labour Party is done for. It's been hijacked by the extreme left and that isn't going to change now. They will elect loser after loser until they disappear into the Permanant talking shop Corbyn has presided over.
The only good news I see is that post this election we might see the emergence of a fledgling centre left party. Will take years to come together but by god the country needs an opposition.
Extreme left?
Yes Baldric, the extreme left.
Quite the hyperbole there, he's left wing but far from extreme left.
The party has been hijacked. The system for electing the leader means that all the extreme left nut jobs including Momentum have found a home and a way of having a left wing leader with extreme left wing policies or he's /She's out. Corbyn himself is extreme left by modern political standards. His policies not moved on since the seventies. Anyone that thinks the Labour Party will elect post Corbyn anyone other than another left winger who is seen by the public as unelectable is I'm afraid mistaken. That's why labour is moribund.
Disagree on your first part but agree on the second. It was a fair way of electing a leader, it was just exploited better by Corbyn. Anyone could have signed up if they cared enough about who leads the party. And on your point about him being extreme left by modern standards is quite a sad indictment of how right wing politics has become in the modern day. I still wouldn't say he is extreme left but yes he is much further left than the general political landscape at the moment.
Corbyn is far left by Labour party standards. Even ignoring New Labour, they're previous 2 PMs Wilson and Callaghan were centrist politicians. For every Tony Benn, there were Roy Jenkins, Dennis Healey and Shirley Williams
Yes I understand. My point at the beginning still stands, he is not extreme left. It's a bit like calling UKIP extreme right. I'm sure SHG only brought it up to get in about the trade unions. Not sure why this debate has even been going on this long tbh.
Whilst I know what this is trying to get at they could have done a lot better if they knew how to draw charts.
Fiiish is the one in Game Of Thrones (which I don't watch) who presumably owns a fancy chess set and presides over the whole kingdom from his lofty quarters, occasionally moving a knight back and forth, pontificating about whether the time is right or not. He's that one.
This is going to be a nightmare for me. For the first time in years I am back on the Eltham electoral roll. Clive Efford is the sitting MP, and he is well known for his excellent constituency work. He has materially helped my family (as recorded here) and is one of the most active pro football fan MPs in the house.I think he is pro Remain, and he is deffo not a Corbynista. Yet a vote for Labour in this election will be taken by Corbyn as a vote for him.
How much chance do the Tories have of grabbing the seat, anyone know?
I welcome the news. It is the last chance for the country to stop the disaster that is Brexit. I am not concerned about the national opinion polls. Labour won't lose any seats in London or Scotland. Any sensible Labour voter in the South West is going to vote Liberal Democrat. Any sensible Lib Dem voter in the North will vote Labour. It will be interesting to see how the opinion polls move over the next few weeks in those seats with traditionally high Lib Dem votes.
You do realise that outside the urban trendy areas, the North of England was heavily pro Brexit?
Yes, but about a million of those Brexit voters have died since the referendum vote. Actually, I have no idea how many have died, but it will be a lot more than the number of Remain voters who have died.
You are forgetting that the UK demographics mean that the grey majority will have increased regardless of the death rate.
Doesn't work like that. Surveys show most people are still entrenched in their Brexit/Remain views. Remain voters are not going to change their view just because they are one year older. And the younger generation, including the section of the population that were too young to vote last June cannot be in any doubt now, after the post referendum debate, about how their futures are being screwed over by the older generation, and will be more motivated to actually get off their arses and vote.
So, that is your opinion, and one you will get a lot of positive reinforcement for on here. Imagine now, a parallel universe, let's call it, say, the North, where someone is having the exact same topic and discussion, but instead of the vast majority being rabid one minded remainers, it is full of instead, rabid, one minded Brexiters, I can see them saying the exact same thing. All of the pro Brexit posts get likes and all all of the pro remain posts get ridicule (and a few lols).
You are absolutely right. But, they won't be able to claim that more Remain voters than Brexit voters have died since last June.
People will either not bother or just vote for who they voted for last time.
I'm guessing May knows this.
I do wonder if this will be a very low turnout
I actually think it will be a high turnout as I suspect people will use it as a 2nd referendum, with Brexiters voting Tory and Remainers voting Lib Dem or strategically to block the Tory candidate.
Comments
And not just links to newspapers, I want proper proof of everything you've put forward please......
And that's even if you consider that having a socialist in charge of the Labour Party is a coup in the first place. Personally I think Bliar and Brown's hijacking of the party in the 90's and turning them into Tories in red ties was far worse.
I think we already know the answer.
People will either not bother or just vote for who they voted for last time.
I'm guessing May knows this.
Add the fact the general public are 'electioned out' and I think you're probably right.
Neither party are bringing much New to the table. In fact Labour have all but crawled under it.
I didn't bring anything up to specifically talk about Trade Unions. I only did so to highlight the fact that it is a trade union leader who is now kingmaker with regards to the labour leader. I don't think anyone would argue that McClusky got Ed elected over David and subsequently Corbyn over his opponents. McClusky is very left wing. Add to his disproportionate say we have Momentum and other fringe left wing groups who now have a home in what's left of the Labour Party.
How much chance do the Tories have of grabbing the seat, anyone know?
'How Labour is too weak to win, and too strong to die'
http://www.fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Stuck-Fabian-Society-analysis-paper.pdf