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The General Election - June 8th 2017

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    Realistically labour will need a fairly decent lead in the polls to even have a chance of winning the election as I'm sure shy Tory syndrome will strike again.
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    For anybody with children in education the IFS has looked at the parties planned spend per pupil from the manifestos.

    bbc.co.uk/news/education-40051476
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    I don't believe the polls at all from overhearing conversations. It's the hope that kills you! I wish we had unbiased media in this country.

    It's Corbyn's birthday today!
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    I don't believe the polls at all from overhearing conversations. It's the hope that kills you! I wish we had unbiased media in this country.

    It's Corbyn's birthday today!

    The Times reporting the latest YouGov poll with Labour closing the gap to 5 points at 38%. Corbyn's personal ratings are still low, but improving whilst May seems to drop points every time she opens her mouth.
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    TelMc32 said:

    I don't believe the polls at all from overhearing conversations. It's the hope that kills you! I wish we had unbiased media in this country.

    It's Corbyn's birthday today!

    The Times reporting the latest YouGov poll with Labour closing the gap to 5 points at 38%. Corbyn's personal ratings are still low, but improving whilst May seems to drop points every time she opens her mouth.
    Tonight's Andrew Neil interview is going to be very interesting. I imagine it is going to be the first time many people will have seen him in such a situation. I think he is generally a good one on one interviewee, he comes across as quite reasoned and thoughtful against a belligerent interviewer.
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    I welcome the news. It is the last chance for the country to stop the disaster that is Brexit. I am not concerned about the national opinion polls. Labour won't lose any seats in London or Scotland. Any sensible Labour voter in the South West is going to vote Liberal Democrat. Any sensible Lib Dem voter in the North will vote Labour. It will be interesting to see how the opinion polls move over the next few weeks in those seats with traditionally high Lib Dem votes.

    May is a dishonest individual who is only motivated by what is good for the Conservative Party. She has no parents, no children, no relatives and married her first boyfriend. The Conservative Party is her entire family.

    The election is a combination of that (IE cashing in for purely partisan reasons with everyone else in disarray) and wasting a bit more time before facing up to the realities of 'Brexit'.

    There are only, and have only ever been, 2 options:

    (1) Stay in the EU
    (2) Be fired out of the EU with no arrangements, like a shell out of a gun

    The former, by the way, includes the Norway + Swiss options which are basically signing up to everything, paying the money, but pretending you're independent and having no say over EU arrangements.

    My view is that May will go for the latter, because (a) the Conservative Party will force her to (and if she doesn't she'll be neutralised very quickly, like Cameron and Major) (b) she doesn't care about ordinary people, and (c) she doesn't actually understand anything about the EU and economics.

    This is a tragedy for ordinary people of historic proportions that will be spoken about for decades to come.

    As for the result..........My predictions are:

    - Conservative majority increased, but not a landslide
    - Labour down, but Corbyn remains
    - SNP remain predominant in Scotland (ok, they might lose a couple of seat, but so what)
    - Lib Dems win a few but not enough to be real challengers

    What a complete waste of time and a total irrelevance to the issues facing us.
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    I welcome the news. It is the last chance for the country to stop the disaster that is Brexit. I am not concerned about the national opinion polls. Labour won't lose any seats in London or Scotland. Any sensible Labour voter in the South West is going to vote Liberal Democrat. Any sensible Lib Dem voter in the North will vote Labour. It will be interesting to see how the opinion polls move over the next few weeks in those seats with traditionally high Lib Dem votes.

    May is a dishonest individual who is only motivated by what is good for the Conservative Party. She has no parents, no children, no relatives and married her first boyfriend. The Conservative Party is her entire family.

    The election is a combination of that (IE cashing in for purely partisan reasons with everyone else in disarray) and wasting a bit more time before facing up to the realities of 'Brexit'.

    There are only, and have only ever been, 2 options:

    (1) Stay in the EU
    (2) Be fired out of the EU with no arrangements, like a shell out of a gun

    The former, by the way, includes the Norway + Swiss options which are basically signing up to everything, paying the money, but pretending you're independent and having no say over EU arrangements.

    My view is that May will go for the latter, because (a) the Conservative Party will force her to (and if she doesn't she'll be neutralised very quickly, like Cameron and Major) (b) she doesn't care about ordinary people, and (c) she doesn't actually understand anything about the EU and economics.

    This is a tragedy for ordinary people of historic proportions that will be spoken about for decades to come.

    As for the result..........My predictions are:

    - Conservative majority increased, but not a landslide
    - Labour down, but Corbyn remains
    - SNP remain predominant in Scotland (ok, they might lose a couple of seat, but so what)
    - Lib Dems win a few but not enough to be real challengers

    What a complete waste of time and a total irrelevance to the issues facing us.
    Good post in my view and pretty accurate forecast I reckon.
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    just a quick question -

    I'm going on holiday next month and was wondering if I should get my Euros before the general election?
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    just a quick question -

    I'm going on holiday next month and was wondering if I should get my Euros before the general election?

    Same here.
    Personally I'm going to wait until after the election as a Tory victory should boost the pound.
    By the way I'm not a Tory but I do believe they will win comfortably
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    just a quick question -

    I'm going on holiday next month and was wondering if I should get my Euros before the general election?

    I would get them today, if I could. My understanding is that the exchange rates are a bit uncertain (the market seems to like a clear winner being identified in advance, and Sterling has alreay dropped with the closing polls).
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    Interesting speech, probably best to post it here and not the other thread!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/26/general-election-2017-terror-corbyn-may-g7-sicily-politics-live

    He talks a lot about tackling the causes and questions if the war on terror has achieved much. I think he's right but it's an easy spin for the press
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    shame he didn't pin the blame on Blair who was the one who took us into the Iraqi War uneccessarily
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    What about the 15 odd times Corbyn voted against the various anti terror laws? Has he now changed his mind?
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    shame he didn't pin the blame on Blair who was the one who took us into the Iraqi War uneccessarily

    I think he has done so plenty of times in the past. Hence major split in the party between him and Blairites.
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    Wasn't his reasoning that they were inefficient? I don't think he has changed his mind.
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    just a quick question -

    I'm going on holiday next month and was wondering if I should get my Euros before the general election?

    I have got this spectacularly wrong recently, so do the opposite of what I say. I would say wait until after the election...
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    Rob7Lee said:

    What about the 15 odd times Corbyn voted against the various anti terror laws? Has he now changed his mind?

    Are you referring to the 17 anti-terror laws that the Sun reported today?
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    I like people thinking about things - you can agree or disagree but Corbyn says what he believes. He is a bit different to any other party leader before him. I think he blames both his own party and the current government for their rush to war which destabilised the region. The question, I suppose is do you think the wars were a good thing or bad thing. People may not be ready for it, but Corbyn is offering another way!

    I see the growth forecast which was 0.3% was amended to 0.2% today. This is a pathetic figure and there is a clear economic explanation for it. With the cost of living rising, people are going to hold on to their money and it is going to be stagnent then get worse. This is always what happens in times of austerity. Labour's policies are all about making the pound work harder and growth. If borrowing goes up a little, GDP is going to rise disroportionally. It is a shame we all seem to want to head to the gloom when there is the chance of light. Some of the worlds top economists are saying that, but we seem stuck in the economics of the nursery school playground.

    All the wealth is going to a tiny percentage and their share is increasing. Here is our chance to stand up for something better. I'm off on holiday to Italy for a week - I may dip in to see how things are going, but I hope the continued emergence of what is right for the country does not abate.


    Compares with Spain on 0.8% growth quarter on quarter (the top EU performer, taking annual growth to 3%) and 0.5% across the Eurozone and puts the UK on a par with Italy (also 0.2%).

    You know you need to be wary when you're comparable with the Italian economy!! :neutral:

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    Rob7Lee said:

    What about the 15 odd times Corbyn voted against the various anti terror laws? Has he now changed his mind?

    Aliwibble beat me to it but you are going to need a bit more than that.

    What were the laws?

    What was the logical conclusion of those laws if they were enacted?

    Why did he vote against them?

    Did he support alternative laws that he thought would be more effective?
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    Predictable attacks from various Tories and the Lib Dems on what he said about our implementation of foreign policy and the later effects of this. Despite our security services also cautioning this might happen before we went into Iraq and I think as part of the enquiry into it afterwards.

    Attempts to suggest he condones terrorism or that what he said today was an attempt to justify the attack are utterly lamentable.

    Here's what Teresa May said in a speech a few months ago, "...This cannot mean a return to the failed policies of the past. The days of Britain and America intervening in sovereign countries in an attempt to remake the world in our own image are over."

    Is that so different to what Corbyn has said today?
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    Rob7Lee said:

    What about the 15 odd times Corbyn voted against the various anti terror laws? Has he now changed his mind?

    Aliwibble beat me to it but you are going to need a bit more than that.

    What were the laws?

    What was the logical conclusion of those laws if they were enacted?

    Why did he vote against them?

    Did he support alternative laws that he thought would be more effective?
    Did the laws go through, were the effective?

    Did any of his votes help to prevent laws go through?

    I think his vote against the Iraq War was probably the best anti terrorist vote in hindsight but that went against him
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    Predictable attacks from various Tories and the Lib Dems on what he said about our implementation of foreign policy and the later effects of this. Despite our security services also cautioning this might happen before we went into Iraq and I think as part of the enquiry into it afterwards.

    Attempts to suggest he condones terrorism or that what he said today was an attempt to justify the attack are utterly lamentable.

    Here's what Teresa May said in a speech a few months ago, "...This cannot mean a return to the failed policies of the past. The days of Britain and America intervening in sovereign countries in an attempt to remake the world in our own image are over."

    Is that so different to what Corbyn has said today?

    No - but she'll deny it of course and say something like:

    "What I really meant was the days are over when we just pussy foot around with cruise missiles. If we are going to do it, as we must, then we need to do it in a strong and stable way. This does not mean, and must not be construed as, a u-turn."
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    Not that it should surprise us but Boris is talking out of his arse again and forgetting what he believes when he thinks.

    This is from his Spectator column in 2005 written after 7/7.

    In groping to understand, the pundits and the politicians have clutched first at Iraq, and the idea that this is ‘blowback’, the inevitable punishment for Britain’s part in the Pentagon’s fiasco. George Galloway began it in Parliament; he was followed by Sir Max Hastings, with the Lib Dems limping in the rear. It is difficult to deny that they have a point, the Told-You-So brigade. As the Butler report revealed, the Joint Intelligence Committee assessment in 2003 was that a war in Iraq would increase the terror threat to Britain. Anyone who has been to Iraq since the war would agree that the position is very far from ideal; and if any anti-Western mullah wanted a text with which to berate Britain and America for their callousness, it is amply provided by Fallujah, or the mere fact that Tony Blair cannot even tell you how many Iraqis have been killed since their liberation — only that the number is somewhere between ten and twenty thousand.

    Supporters of the war have retorted that Iraq cannot be said to be a whole and sufficient explanation for the existence of suicidal Islamic cells in the West, and they, too, have a point. The threat from Islamicist nutters preceded 9/11; they bombed the Paris Métro in the 1990s; and it is evident that the threat to British lives pre-dates the Iraq war, when you think that roughly the same number of Britons died in the World Trade Center as died in last week’s bombings.

    In other words, the Iraq war did not create the problem of murderous Islamic fundamentalists, though the war has unquestionably sharpened the resentments felt by such people in this country, and given them a new pretext. The Iraq war did not introduce the poison into our bloodstream but, yes, the war did help to potentiate that poison.
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    Chizz said:

    It's interesting to note that Theresa May regularly and consistently failed to support anti-terrorism laws while Labour was in office.

    This included being missing from the House of Commons in November 2001 (a few weeks after 9/11) during the vote on the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Bill — Indefinite detention of suspected terrorists. And voting no on the Prevention of Terrorism Bill five times in 2005 in the weeks leading up to the 7/7 London bombings.

    So, I think those that are happy to sling mud at Corbyn ought also to be chucking the same at May.

    And also being a useless Home Secretary.

    Cuts in Police and Prison Officers?

    The UK is one of the most under-Policed countries in Europe. Compare us with France: Municipal Police + National Police + Gendarmerie + Transport Police + Customs and Coast Guard Police

    The hand wringing about fighting terrorism and everyone pulling together etc needs to be put in that context.
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    edited May 2017

    could well be that the tories don't get the landslide majority that many are predicting ..

    according to a poll in today's 'Times' (if anyone ever believes the polls anymore) the Tories will win with a REDUCED majority ((:>)
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