I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
That already happens/is meant to happy, but when we were bumped off, we heard no announcements and were refused boarding & waited 5 hours for another flight.
We should have got the £200 pp compensation as it was an EU flight, but Thomas Cook refused to give the reason as to why the plane was switched to a smaller one, causing the over capacity.
We weren't offered food vouchers (were promised didn't get).
I claimed when we got home & was in dispute for about 9 months, but they wore me down & we accepted flight vouchers with them, so booked flight to Barcelona.
I would have sued them through a NWNF solicitor, but I'd already successfully sued them 10 years previously and couldn't be arsed again.
Airlines shouldn't be allowed to obfuscate when they're dicking people about. If anything, the burden ought to be on them to prove that they did everything they could to compensate you for the inconvenience. At the very least they ought to get your signature on a dated document confirming you have been satisfied by the compensation, if not then you ought to be able to claim not only any money lost due to inconvenience but tens of thousands of pounds. If overbooking is going to be allowed to happen then airlines ought to be held fully accountable.
If a flight is overbooked it should be first booked gets priority. I always book my flights months in advance so if someone books the same flight at the last minute surely I should have preference. Having said that anyone who is overbooked for no fault of his (or her) fault of their own they deserve massive compensation from the airline concerned
I agree. But that's not the way the airlines see it. If a frequent flyer or an important corporate client wants your seat and are paying a full whack fare they are going to get your seat.
I'm convinced that's why you can't pre-book your seat on BA (and others) now until a day before the flight (unless you pay extra). This even applies to their so-called Club World seats. BA service generally has gone so far down the tubes it's right in the sewer IMO. But it's probably still better than the yank airlines.
Edited to add: I guess United are going to have to change that "fly the friendly skies" slogan now.
I'm fairly sure easyJet let you check-in 30 days in advance, and as soon as you have a seat allocated to you, it is yours and it cannot be taken away.
I was helping an elderly relative check into a Ryanair flight last week and the experience has put me off the airline in the future. These airlines usually demand you bring a printed boarding pass (or a smartphone app equivalent) or else they threaten to charge you an admin fee if you approach the airline's check-in desk without your boarding pass ready. You are also compelled to check-in days in advance to ensure you are not bumped. My relative is going on a week long trip but you can only check in for each flight four days in advance for free, or else pay a surcharge per flight for the privilege of 'early check-in'. This means that my relative was forced to pay the fee for at least the return flight because there is no way they were going to have access to a printer wherever they were going. It's an absolute travesty to treat people this way.
Flying is already a stressful enough experience given how jittery the security situation is and that airports are crawling with armed personnel and heavies ready to intercept anyone who kicks off. Airlines exploit an already confusing and ever-changing environment by charging people for peace of mind. They are basically vampires.
Ryannair actually are the master purveyors of this type of shit, their tagline should be something like 'Ryannair, we don't give a fuck'
Them and Easyjet are shithouses, I can see someone typing out now "I've used them loads and never had a problem" well wait until you do and you will then, only then, truly know what it is to hate.
As an aside when I went to New York on a Wednesday morning flight the plane was pretty empty and the very kind lady on the desk offered us a free upgrade to premium. Which I ripped their hand off for. This was with Delta and on the way back it wasn't quite as empty and ended up along from a really fat hasidic Jew who spent the whole journey either faring or being amazingly obnoxious to the cabin staff.
do Ryannair still have the gladiator style eliminator run? they overbooked a flight I was on coming back from Greece I think about 10 years ago. announcement came that the last 4 people would have to wait 3hours for the next flight. man it was chaos. the runway was almost like a scene resembling the black Friday sales. my faith in humanity was lost that day. needless to say I wasn't left on the runway.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
That already happens/is meant to happy, but when we were bumped off, we heard no announcements and were refused boarding & waited 5 hours for another flight.
We should have got the £200 pp compensation as it was an EU flight, but Thomas Cook refused to give the reason as to why the plane was switched to a smaller one, causing the over capacity.
We weren't offered food vouchers (were promised didn't get).
I claimed when we got home & was in dispute for about 9 months, but they wore me down & we accepted flight vouchers with them, so booked flight to Barcelona.
I would have sued them through a NWNF solicitor, but I'd already successfully sued them 10 years previously and couldn't be arsed again.
Airlines shouldn't be allowed to obfuscate when they're dicking people about. If anything, the burden ought to be on them to prove that they did everything they could to compensate you for the inconvenience. At the very least they ought to get your signature on a dated document confirming you have been satisfied by the compensation, if not then you ought to be able to claim not only any money lost due to inconvenience but tens of thousands of pounds. If overbooking is going to be allowed to happen then airlines ought to be held fully accountable.
If a flight is overbooked it should be first booked gets priority. I always book my flights months in advance so if someone books the same flight at the last minute surely I should have preference. Having said that anyone who is overbooked for no fault of his (or her) fault of their own they deserve massive compensation from the airline concerned
I agree. But that's not the way the airlines see it. If a frequent flyer or an important corporate client wants your seat and are paying a full whack fare they are going to get your seat.
I'm convinced that's why you can't pre-book your seat on BA (and others) now until a day before the flight (unless you pay extra). This even applies to their so-called Club World seats. BA service generally has gone so far down the tubes it's right in the sewer IMO. But it's probably still better than the yank airlines.
Edited to add: I guess United are going to have to change that "fly the friendly skies" slogan now.
I'm fairly sure easyJet let you check-in 30 days in advance, and as soon as you have a seat allocated to you, it is yours and it cannot be taken away.
I was helping an elderly relative check into a Ryanair flight last week and the experience has put me off the airline in the future. These airlines usually demand you bring a printed boarding pass (or a smartphone app equivalent) or else they threaten to charge you an admin fee if you approach the airline's check-in desk without your boarding pass ready. You are also compelled to check-in days in advance to ensure you are not bumped. My relative is going on a week long trip but you can only check in for each flight four days in advance for free, or else pay a surcharge per flight for the privilege of 'early check-in'. This means that my relative was forced to pay the fee for at least the return flight because there is no way they were going to have access to a printer wherever they were going. It's an absolute travesty to treat people this way.
Flying is already a stressful enough experience given how jittery the security situation is and that airports are crawling with armed personnel and heavies ready to intercept anyone who kicks off. Airlines exploit an already confusing and ever-changing environment by charging people for peace of mind. They are basically vampires.
Ryannair actually are the master purveyors of this type of shit, their tagline should be something like 'Ryannair, we don't give a fuck'
Them and Easyjet are shithouses, I can see someone typing out now "I've used them loads and never had a problem" well wait until you do and you will then, only then, truly know what it is to hate.
As an aside when I went to New York on a Wednesday morning flight the plane was pretty empty and the very kind lady on the desk offered us a free upgrade to premium. Which I ripped their hand off for. This was with Delta and on the way back it wasn't quite as empty and ended up along from a really fat hasidic Jew who spent the whole journey either faring or being amazingly obnoxious to the cabin staff.
do Ryannair still have the gladiator style eliminator run? they overbooked a flight I was on coming back from Greece I think about 10 years ago. announcement came that the last 4 people would have to wait 3hours for the next flight. man it was chaos. the runway was almost like a scene resembling the black Friday sales. my faith in humanity was lost that day. needless to say I wasn't left on the runway.
I think they let you book seats now, easyjet used to let you pay extra to be at the front of the ruck. I won't get started on them as I'll still be typing away at 10pm
A complete disgrace from United, shambolic procedures beforehand as they boarded everyone then tried to get people to leave
if you offer enough money, eventually you'll get 4 volunteers. apparently they were offering United vouchers not money, and not enough either. Airlines profit from overbooking, having to occasionally cough up is part of the business model.
Not that United will face the problem of overbooking on future flights, which will resemble the Valley under RD and KM
airlines for me are the most greedy, money pinching cnuts behind south eastern railway.
@palarsehater , genuine question - why? It's quite an extreme view to take given that flying has never been cheaper, safer or more available to all. Is your view based on personal experience? I'd be genuinely interested and I may have answers to some of your points.
airlines for me are the most greedy, money pinching cnuts behind south eastern railway.
@palarsehater , genuine question - why? It's quite an extreme view to take given that flying has never been cheaper, safer or more available to all. Is your view based on personal experience? I'd be genuinely interested and I may have answers to some of your points.
use Ryanair quite frequently to fly back to ireland and there times suit better than aer lingus in the last 15 crossings ive never had one go on time, they dont stick to there baggage policy aswell as the airlines the passengers are at fault aswell, as meant to be 1 item of cabbage luggage per passenger and there is never going to be room, 90 cabin bags can fit on a plane and there are usually 192 passengers on a full flight, so if you want to check your cabin bag in before departure you are charged £15.00 if you want to pick a seat that's another £11.99/7.99 depending on where the seat is.
getting back to baggage recently flew back from edinburgh using easyjet and as per usual people taking more luggage on then they should which the airlines should control, and my bag got checked a 2.5 hr later wait at gatwick finally resulted in me getting my bag back damaged.
might just be my personal experience but airlines should be fined for the shit service they provide if you cant provide a decent enough service dont be in the service industry.
I was upgraded to BA First Class on my way back from New York on Friday night - I tried my best to argue that they should not be overbooking Premium Economy in this way but alas to no avail so I reluctantly took up my greatly enlarged seat, eventually calmed down only by the complimentary pre-flight glass of Brut.
Not that United will face the problem of overbooking on future flights, which will resemble the Valley under RD and KM
You'd hope wouldn't you? Trouble is the US "hub" system means there's not so much choice of airline as you might think. Particularly for some of the smaller less huge airports. United, for example, has only seven hubs: SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, IAH, IAD and EWR. So if a passenger wanted to travel from Omaha to Miami, they'd have the choice (all with a change of planes) of United via Chicago O'Hare: American via Charlotte or Chicago; or Delta via Atlanta, Dallas or Minneapolis (like that last one is sensible!). Depending on dates, times or connections actual choice is likely to be very limited. (I once had the pleasure of being bumped off a Continental (now subsumed within United) flight from EWR to OMA and was re-routed via Houston!) US domestic airline passengers literally zig-zag across the sky to get to where they want to go. By comparison, we here in London are spoilt for choice. If you wanted to go to Berlin, say, there are five airlines running direct flights from five different airports. And those are only the direct ones.
On Saturday I flew to Cracow on a Ryanair flight where every single seat was taken. I'm glad I this incident and thread hadn't happened before then as I would have been so stressed.
I was upgraded to BA First Class on my way back from New York on Friday night - I tried my best to argue that they should not be overbooking Premium Economy in this way but alas to no avail so I reluctantly took up my greatly enlarged seat, eventually calmed down only by the complimentary pre-flight glass of Brut.
I know BA has slumped badly, but are you saying they're giving you cheap aftershave to drink in First? Father Jack would love it!
Not that United will face the problem of overbooking on future flights, which will resemble the Valley under RD and KM
You'd hope wouldn't you? Trouble is the US "hub" system means there's not so much choice of airline as you might think. Particularly for some of the smaller less huge airports. United, for example, has only seven hubs: SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, IAH, IAD and EWR. So if a passenger wanted to travel from Omaha to Miami, they'd have the choice (all with a change of planes) of United via Chicago O'Hare: American via Charlotte or Chicago; or Delta via Atlanta, Dallas or Minneapolis (like that last one is sensible!). Depending on dates, times or connections actual choice is likely to be very limited. (I once had the pleasure of being bumped off a Continental (now subsumed within United) flight from EWR to OMA and was re-routed via Houston!) US domestic airline passengers literally zig-zag across the sky to get to where they want to go. By comparison, we here in London are spoilt for choice. If you wanted to go to Berlin, say, there are five airlines running direct flights from five different airports. And those are only the direct ones.
Yes, the US hub system means you often don't have a choice, but this has gone global. I imagine this will stick in the mind of a lot of international customers, especially in high growth Asian markets. UA has a massive Trans Pacific network for example
airlines for me are the most greedy, money pinching cnuts behind south eastern railway.
@palarsehater , genuine question - why? It's quite an extreme view to take given that flying has never been cheaper, safer or more available to all. Is your view based on personal experience? I'd be genuinely interested and I may have answers to some of your points.
use Ryanair quite frequently to fly back to ireland and there times suit better than aer lingus in the last 15 crossings ive never had one go on time, they dont stick to there baggage policy aswell as the airlines the passengers are at fault aswell, as meant to be 1 item of cabbage luggage per passenger and there is never going to be room, 90 cabin bags can fit on a plane and there are usually 192 passengers on a full flight, so if you want to check your cabin bag in before departure you are charged £15.00 if you want to pick a seat that's another £11.99/7.99 depending on where the seat is.
getting back to baggage recently flew back from edinburgh using easyjet and as per usual people taking more luggage on then they should which the airlines should control, and my bag got checked a 2.5 hr later wait at gatwick finally resulted in me getting my bag back damaged.
might just be my personal experience but airlines should be fined for the shit service they provide if you cant provide a decent enough service dont be in the service industry.
Cheers @palarsehater - I won't deny that air travel can sometimes be frustrating. That frustration can be worse when the service you have paid for is poorly delivered - although it is never in the interests of the airline to do that (even if O'leary / Ryanair have historically gained great PR from seeming to put low prices ahead of a good (or even great) customer experience).
- Most airlines have an average On Time Performance (OTP) measure of + 75%. OTP is achieved if a flight departs within 15 minutes of its scheduled departure time. This is a key measure for all airlines as poor OTPs create significant incremental cost (an aircraft is costing money any time its not in the air). Rest assured Ryan Air aren't delaying you because they can or they want to. In many cases, the reasons for the delay are wholly outside of their control (yet the costs associated with the delay are entirely theirs to bear). If your delay was more than 3 hours you are entitled to compensation under EU/261 unless the delay was outside the control of the airline (weather / strike action etc etc).
- Baggage is a real issue for the airline industry and it is, in this respect, a victim of it's own policy (albeit that policy has created low cost travel for all). To provide the best available prices, airlines decontructed their fares to remove cost that not everyone wanted to take on - hence why you now pay for a seat and pay more if you want a specific seat, hold baggage, food etc etc. The airlines that started this model stole market share (because the consumer liked the model) and everyone had to follow if they wanted to survive (even "full service" carriers such as BA are now removing in flight meals on short haul and considering it on long haul). So now everyone tries to avoid the cost of baggage by taking as much hold luggage as they can. On a full flight there will never be enough space in overhead lockers (particularly on city / business flights, less so on holiday flights where package holidays have baggage included in the cost), hence why you now have the issue of airlines often having to put cabin baggage in the hold. There is no clear solution to this issue IMO although, as you point out, better enforcement may make a difference. In my experience, most airlines do try and do this to avoid the problems you describe.
- Delays at the baggage area - at this point delivery moves away from the airlines and to the appointed ground handler. The ground handlers will have Service Level Agreements (SLA's) with their airlines, but again, for a whole host of reasons delays are possible at this stage. That doesn't make it less palatable when you are standing there for 2.5 hours (though that does seem like an extreme). The Ground Handlers will have commercial penalties for not delivering their SLA's to the airline.
The points above may not make your examples less of an issue, but hopefully gives some context. Airlines aren't, in general, massively profitable (with a few exceptions) and even then not in relation to their cost of business and turnover. They do not deliberately offer poor service - it isn't in their interests to do so. It is an incredibly challenging (and challenged) industry that IMO delivers a remarkable service given the costs of operation and the operational, logistical and legislative environment in which it operates.
The old saying remains true - How do you become a millionaire? Be a billionaire and start an airline.. (or football club)
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
How does overbooking keep the costs down ? Surely, if you buy your ticket, the seat is paid for ? In this case, the man was sitting in his seat. Surely check in would have controlled the number of people on the plane ?
Twitter has gone crazy over this. The recordings show an assault & America being a very litigious country, are likely to get sued heavily. It is looking like they will also lose a lot of business over this with the backlash.
Thanks @Fiiish That's a really clear explanation. It would be interesting to know the percentage United Airlines use for no shows. They are going to have look at situations where everybody shows up. Dragging a passenger randomly off the flight, is disastrous PR for their business & totally wrong.
What I don't understand is to why they gave boarding cards out to too many people, surely they are able to control how many people get on the plane. If they need to get their own staff somewhere then that needs to be done before they seat passengers.
Yes, I imagine their profit/loss algorithm doesnt take into account the cost of negative PR of your heavies beating the snot out of a defenceless paying customer.
The real issue is that this wasn't sorted out well before anyone boarded the plane. This basically means United were letting people on board who simply were not meant to be there. Massive security and safety issues there.
I understand why overbooking happens and why it keeps prices down. Not that it's right but airlines are on a race to the bottom. Even BA is not immune as service quality has plummetted in order to avoid price rises.
The approach needs to be more measured though. The rules ought to be changed so that people are incentivised to volunteer to be bumped to a later flight, such as vouchers for future flights, and vouchers for free food, drink and if necessary hotels at the airport.
How does overbooking keep the costs down ? Surely, if you buy your ticket, the seat is paid for ? In this case, the man was sitting in his seat. Surely check in would have controlled the number of people on the plane ?
Twitter has gone crazy over this. The recordings show an assault & America being a very litigious country, are likely to get sued heavily. It is looking like they will also lose a lot of business over this with the backlash.
Thanks @Fiiish That's a really clear explanation. It would be interesting to know the percentage United Airlines use for no shows. They are going to have look at situations where everybody shows up. Dragging a passenger randomly off the flight, is disastrous PR for their business & totally wrong.
What I don't understand is to why they gave boarding cards out to too many people, surely they are able to control how many people get on the plane. If they need to get their own staff somewhere then that needs to be done before they seat passengers.
Yes, I imagine their profit/loss algorithm doesnt take into account the cost of negative PR of your heavies beating the snot out of a defenceless paying customer.
The real issue is that this wasn't sorted out well before anyone boarded the plane. This basically means United were letting people on board who simply were not meant to be there. Massive security and safety issues there.
What United have done here is wrong (interestingly there is no mention of the actions of the Captain, who is ultimately wholly responsible for what happens on his / her aircraft - in theory none of what happened could have happened without his / her permission).
But....I don't think this would have been a security issue based on my understanding of what happened. No-one was onboard that didn't have a ticket - the issue is that they wanted to remove people that did..
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
Wait, that doesn't make the passenger "at fault." Perhaps that makes the airline's stance more understandable. But the passenger didn't want to be taken off of a flight which he had a ticket for.
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
I kind of agree but it was an absolute clusterfuck on the part of the airline to have ever gotten to this situation in the first place.
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
I kind of agree but it was an absolute clusterfuck on the part of the airline to have ever gotten to this situation in the first place.
Not really, it happens all of the time especially in the US - I wouldn't be surprised if weather was an issue which caused cabin staff/pilots to be in the wrong place and needing to hop on a flight at short notice to get to where they need to be to put schedules back on track.
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
Er no
The people leaving the flight will be those who accept the financial compensation offered, and if nobody is interested you keep going up until somebody is interested. That's how airlines normally deal with it. And the compensation should be cash, not vouchers
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
Sometimes it is difficult to tell if you are being serious. So let's assume it happened to you. You were chosen at random. And it's your silver wedding anniversary or something else really important to you, the next day.
What would you do? Just meekly get off? and if not, in what way are the consequences your fault??
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
Er no
The people leaving the flight will be those who accept the financial compensation offered, and if nobody is interested you keep going up until somebody is interested. That's how airlines normally deal with it. And the compensation should be cash, not vouchers
They would have got takers
Exactly, which is part of the reason I said it was a clusterfuck on the part of the airline. I don't have an issue with overbooking in general but when you get this sort of situation then you accept that it's your problem and if it costs you a few thousand dollars to bribe enough passengers off the plane then that's the cost of doing business.
Not to mention the fact that this should all have been sorted out prior to boarding, not once every bleedin' seat has been occupied!
The more I think about this, the more I think the passenger was at fault - it may have been poorly managed but the airline does have the right to force someone to leave the plane (and sort out appropriate compensation afterwards). If they have followed procedure and chosen him at random then it creates perverse incentives if the security people can't forcibly throw him off if he won't leave willingly - else they would just give up and the only people bumped off flights would be the meek and mild.
Er no
The people leaving the flight will be those who accept the financial compensation offered, and if nobody is interested you keep going up until somebody is interested. That's how airlines normally deal with it. And the compensation should be cash, not vouchers
They would have got takers
This.
I once got a free bottle of whiskey out of that and I think I was delayed like an hour (it was from the like in air catalogue). I don't drink whiskey, but I never win any raffles, so it was just nice to have won something.
I think they do vouchers (and they'll put you up in a hotel and all kinds of other things) because there are usually state laws regulating giving cash away, at least in some instances.
A complete disgrace from United, shambolic procedures beforehand as they boarded everyone then tried to get people to leave
if you offer enough money, eventually you'll get 4 volunteers. apparently they were offering United vouchers not money, and not enough either. Airlines profit from overbooking, having to occasionally cough up is part of the business model.
Not that United will face the problem of overbooking on future flights, which will resemble the Valley under RD and KM
It would have saved them a lot more money if they had offered money! Steward on the plane says we are doing an auction for somebody to spend another day here at a nice hotel and catch tomorrows flight - starting at hotel plus £50. At some point before £200, I would imagine they have all the volunteers they need! Surely if you have an overbooking policy, you need a policy to get people to voluntarily give up their seat!
You have to wonder how events like this happen when the first reaction to anything out of the ordinary is to whip out their camera phone. You'd think there'd be training for these events for the crew. Whoever was at fault, this was going to end badly for united.
As has been said, whatever the cost of getting 4 people off this flight, they've surely smashed that figure with the bad PR here. What's the max it would have cost the 2k?
The CEO is now saying that the passenger was dragged off because he became disruptive and belligerent. When asked to get off a flight for which he had a valid ticket and boarding pass.
Comments
if you offer enough money, eventually you'll get 4 volunteers. apparently they were offering United vouchers not money, and not enough either. Airlines profit from overbooking, having to occasionally cough up is part of the business model.
Not that United will face the problem of overbooking on future flights, which will resemble the Valley under RD and KM
getting back to baggage recently flew back from edinburgh using easyjet and as per usual people taking more luggage on then they should which the airlines should control, and my bag got checked a 2.5 hr later wait at gatwick finally resulted in me getting my bag back damaged.
might just be my personal experience but airlines should be fined for the shit service they provide if you cant provide a decent enough service dont be in the service industry.
smallerless huge airports. United, for example, has only seven hubs: SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, IAH, IAD and EWR. So if a passenger wanted to travel from Omaha to Miami, they'd have the choice (all with a change of planes) of United via Chicago O'Hare: American via Charlotte or Chicago; or Delta via Atlanta, Dallas or Minneapolis (like that last one is sensible!). Depending on dates, times or connections actual choice is likely to be very limited. (I once had the pleasure of being bumped off a Continental (now subsumed within United) flight from EWR to OMA and was re-routed via Houston!) US domestic airline passengers literally zig-zag across the sky to get to where they want to go.By comparison, we here in London are spoilt for choice. If you wanted to go to Berlin, say, there are five airlines running direct flights from five different airports. And those are only the direct ones.
Father Jack would love it!
- Most airlines have an average On Time Performance (OTP) measure of + 75%. OTP is achieved if a flight departs within 15 minutes of its scheduled departure time. This is a key measure for all airlines as poor OTPs create significant incremental cost (an aircraft is costing money any time its not in the air). Rest assured Ryan Air aren't delaying you because they can or they want to. In many cases, the reasons for the delay are wholly outside of their control (yet the costs associated with the delay are entirely theirs to bear). If your delay was more than 3 hours you are entitled to compensation under EU/261 unless the delay was outside the control of the airline (weather / strike action etc etc).
- Baggage is a real issue for the airline industry and it is, in this respect, a victim of it's own policy (albeit that policy has created low cost travel for all). To provide the best available prices, airlines decontructed their fares to remove cost that not everyone wanted to take on - hence why you now pay for a seat and pay more if you want a specific seat, hold baggage, food etc etc. The airlines that started this model stole market share (because the consumer liked the model) and everyone had to follow if they wanted to survive (even "full service" carriers such as BA are now removing in flight meals on short haul and considering it on long haul). So now everyone tries to avoid the cost of baggage by taking as much hold luggage as they can. On a full flight there will never be enough space in overhead lockers (particularly on city / business flights, less so on holiday flights where package holidays have baggage included in the cost), hence why you now have the issue of airlines often having to put cabin baggage in the hold. There is no clear solution to this issue IMO although, as you point out, better enforcement may make a difference. In my experience, most airlines do try and do this to avoid the problems you describe.
- Delays at the baggage area - at this point delivery moves away from the airlines and to the appointed ground handler. The ground handlers will have Service Level Agreements (SLA's) with their airlines, but again, for a whole host of reasons delays are possible at this stage. That doesn't make it less palatable when you are standing there for 2.5 hours (though that does seem like an extreme). The Ground Handlers will have commercial penalties for not delivering their SLA's to the airline.
The points above may not make your examples less of an issue, but hopefully gives some context. Airlines aren't, in general, massively profitable (with a few exceptions) and even then not in relation to their cost of business and turnover. They do not deliberately offer poor service - it isn't in their interests to do so. It is an incredibly challenging (and challenged) industry that IMO delivers a remarkable service given the costs of operation and the operational, logistical and legislative environment in which it operates.
The old saying remains true - How do you become a millionaire? Be a billionaire and start an airline.. (or football club)
The real issue is that this wasn't sorted out well before anyone boarded the plane. This basically means United were letting people on board who simply were not meant to be there. Massive security and safety issues there.
But....I don't think this would have been a security issue based on my understanding of what happened. No-one was onboard that didn't have a ticket - the issue is that they wanted to remove people that did..
The people leaving the flight will be those who accept the financial compensation offered, and if nobody is interested you keep going up until somebody is interested. That's how airlines normally deal with it. And the compensation should be cash, not vouchers
They would have got takers
What would you do? Just meekly get off? and if not, in what way are the consequences your fault??
Not to mention the fact that this should all have been sorted out prior to boarding, not once every bleedin' seat has been occupied!
I once got a free bottle of whiskey out of that and I think I was delayed like an hour (it was from the like in air catalogue). I don't drink whiskey, but I never win any raffles, so it was just nice to have won something.
I think they do vouchers (and they'll put you up in a hotel and all kinds of other things) because there are usually state laws regulating giving cash away, at least in some instances.
As has been said, whatever the cost of getting 4 people off this flight, they've surely smashed that figure with the bad PR here. What's the max it would have cost the 2k?
He will be an ex CEO by Easter.
Buy a legitimate ticket and boarding pass and yet YOU are the one in the wrong and deserving of a good kicking by the Stasi!
Unbelievable but no surprise to me sadly in the 21st Century.
The Arthur Daley 'pull a stroke' mentality of the likes of O'Leary is admired and revered and honest decent people will suffer as a result.
Acceptable collateral damage it seems.