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SE trains to Cannon Street only??

Sorry if this has already been posted, but my brother just sent me a link to this petition. I think it may be slightly over the top, as it is only one idea in this consultation paper.

However since the Transport Minister is Chris Grayling, the opportunities for idiotic decisions here are limitless.

Comments

  • Read about this a few weeks back. I can only guess this is an attempt to push people through London Bridge Station.
    Cannon Street already feels like it's running at full capacity.
    Would be a shame for commuters.
  • got this email this morning;


    You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Immediately stop plans to cut Southeastern services to Charing Cross & Victoria”.

    To unsubscribe from getting emails about this petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/signatures/36843363/unsubscribe?token=6Fy6NJ6W2LBHTUG9ltM

    Dear Gary Saunders,

    The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Immediately stop plans to cut Southeastern services to Charing Cross & Victoria”.

    Government responded:

    We are seeking passengers’ views on the principle of reducing the choice of London termini to provide a more regular timetable and reliable service. We are not proposing to cut specific services.

    The Department for Transport has launched a public consultation to seek passengers’ views on their priorities for the train service on the South Eastern network. These will be used by the Department of Transport to specify the service required from the next train operator, which is planned to start in December 2018.

    The public consultation seeks views on all aspects of the train service, including the provision of more space for passengers, improvements to customer service, simplifying fares and ticketing, improving access and facilities at stations, priorities for speeding up journeys, and providing additional services.

    Question 17 seeks views about whether passengers would support the principle of reducing the choice of London termini served from individual stations to provide a more regular timetable and reliable service. We are not proposing to reduce or change specific services. An example is provided to explain how the concept could potentially operate in practice if passengers supported it.

    This question is being asked because passengers have indicated that reducing delays is a priority. Paragraph 4.6 of the consultation document explains that one of the causes of delays is the need for trains to cross complex junctions at key points such as London Bridge and Lewisham, which are operating at close to maximum capability. Reducing the need for trains to cross these junctions, by reducing the number of London termini served from individual stations, would help to reduce delays.

    Journeys could also be quicker. It is currently necessary to add in waiting times at stations to timetable moves across these junctions and these could be reduced or eliminated if services ran to a single London termini.

    In the peak periods, the majority of passengers change at London Bridge, although a significant number do continue through to Cannon Street, Waterloo East, and Charing Cross. We know that these passengers value a choice of London stations.

    We are therefore seeking passengers’ views on the principle of reducing the choice of London termini to provide a more regular timetable and reliable service.

    In answering this question, it is important to consider the many new journey choices for passengers that will result from the completion of the Thameslink programme and the opening of the Elizabeth line. For example, by 2019, passengers from many South Eastern stations will be able to travel via Abbey Wood or Woolwich for fast and regular onward connections to Canary Wharf and central London. Many more passengers will change at London Bridge to join Thameslink trains that run every five minutes between London Bridge-Blackfriars-City Thameslink-Farringdon-St. Pancras.

    On the Bexleyheath line the number of passengers from intermediate stations between Dartford and Lewisham and who travel beyond Lewisham towards Victoria is relatively small when compared with those travelling on much faster trains to London Bridge. In the future some passenger from the outer stations on this route will travel via Abbey Wood and the Elizabeth line, or change at London Bridge for Thameslink onward connections. Overall all passengers will benefit from more reliable journeys and many will benefit from faster journey times.

    The public consultation will end on 23 May 2017, after which the Department for Transport will carefully analyse each response. The conclusions will be published in the Autumn in a Stakeholder Response document.

    It is important to note that there would need to be a separate public consultation by the next train operator before any significant timetable changes were introduced, and this would include reducing the choice of London termini served from stations on the South Eastern network.

    Department for Transport

  • If it reduces delays and you can still change at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross or Cannon Street then I wouldn't be against it.

    However, I don't trust these people, and they've proven over and over again that they're completely incompetent. They should pledge to increase compensation for delays, so that passengers get something back if we give them the go ahead and they then fail to deliver on what they've promised.
  • The govt response to the petition makes it pretty clear that they've already made their minds up.
  • MrLargo said:

    If it reduces delays and you can still change at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross or Cannon Street then I wouldn't be against it.

    However, I don't trust these people, and they've proven over and over again that they're completely incompetent. They should pledge to increase compensation for delays, so that passengers get something back if we give them the go ahead and they then fail to deliver on what they've promised.

    I agree entirely with your second paragraph. Realistically it will not reduce delays. Punctuality will still rely on a network that falls down at the slightest shift in weather conditions or most times delays for no reason whatsoever. So I suspect that most of the time I will be running late and still have to change at London Bridge. And I am sure there will be a celebratory price hike to coincide with the change in service.

    The Victoria Trains are actually busy but bearable in terms of passenger numbers. But of course we aren't allowed to travel like that, so this service must be abolished to cram us all on a London Bridge train and head us off merrily towards the points failures.

    In any case, its crap how the Charing X trains are currently full leaving Bexleyheath - just how they want us to travel!!

    30 years of commuting has left me a broken man :-)
  • MrLargo said:

    If it reduces delays and you can still change at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross or Cannon Street then I wouldn't be against it.

    However, I don't trust these people, and they've proven over and over again that they're completely incompetent. They should pledge to increase compensation for delays, so that passengers get something back if we give them the go ahead and they then fail to deliver on what they've promised.

    Really don't wanna change at LB in the pissing rain and cold, in the morning and on the way home.
  • i go to victoria so would be extremely fucked off if they can that.
  • MrLargo said:

    If it reduces delays and you can still change at London Bridge to get to Charing Cross or Cannon Street then I wouldn't be against it.

    However, I don't trust these people, and they've proven over and over again that they're completely incompetent. They should pledge to increase compensation for delays, so that passengers get something back if we give them the go ahead and they then fail to deliver on what they've promised.

    Really don't wanna change at LB in the pissing rain and cold, in the morning and on the way home.
    How long would the average wait at London Bridge be if you were having to change I wonder, and how much busier would the platforms be if this was the case?

    Kinda makes me glad that I cycle mostly.
  • This thread is so CL it almost feels like a parody.
  • Sponsored links:


  • When I travel from Prague to Eltham, ithe jounrey from Heathrow to Eltham is as long as the first bit, and is the bit that completely exhausts me, even if I pay through the nose for the Heathrow Express. After the relative calm of that, it's in to the steaming mess of the Bakerloo, hiking a suitcase up steps, then getting on to an Eltham train at Charing Cross. Now they want me to change at London Bridge too.

    Well, after 46 years of waiting, Crossrail is coming, to make life better. Well sort of. Travel direct from Heathrow to SE London on my Oyster. But then what? Why oh why didn't Crossrail end at Dartford, or even Slade Green, so I could then jump on a BX train back to Eltham? I suppose in principal they could run frequent trains from Abbey Wood via Slade Green back down the Eltham line. In principal. In practice, as @MrLargo says you can't trust these people. Not the operators, not the Dept of Transport who created this mess of a railway, and certainly not Chris Grayling, who is a ****.

    can't for the life of me work out why Crossrail didn't end at Ebbsfleet.....would link everything up then
  • SDAddick said:

    This thread is so CL it almost feels like a parody.

    Couldn't make it up etc.
  • Doesn't cross rail stop at St Pancras? So does need to go to Ebbsfleet
  • Doesn't cross rail stop at St Pancras? So does need to go to Ebbsfleet

    No it doesn't.
  • edited April 11

    When I travel from Prague to Eltham, ithe jounrey from Heathrow to Eltham is as long as the first bit, and is the bit that completely exhausts me, even if I pay through the nose for the Heathrow Express. After the relative calm of that, it's in to the steaming mess of the Bakerloo, hiking a suitcase up steps, then getting on to an Eltham train at Charing Cross. Now they want me to change at London Bridge too.

    Well, after 46 years of waiting, Crossrail is coming, to make life better. Well sort of. Travel direct from Heathrow to SE London on my Oyster. But then what? Why oh why didn't Crossrail end at Dartford, or even Slade Green, so I could then jump on a BX train back to Eltham? I suppose in principal they could run frequent trains from Abbey Wood via Slade Green back down the Eltham line. In principal. In practice, as @MrLargo says you can't trust these people. Not the operators, not the Dept of Transport who created this mess of a railway, and certainly not Chris Grayling, who is a ****.

    A mini cab from Woolwich to Eltham should take about 15 mins depending on the time of day and cost no more than 6-7 quid with Amber.
  • I got a response from an online petition which I signed earlier:

    "The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Immediately stop plans to cut Southeastern services to Charing Cross & Victoria”.

    Government responded:

    We are seeking passengers’ views on the principle of reducing the choice of London termini to provide a more regular timetable and reliable service. We are not proposing to cut specific services.

    The Department for Transport has launched a public consultation to seek passengers’ views on their priorities for the train service on the South Eastern network. These will be used by the Department of Transport to specify the service required from the next train operator, which is planned to start in December 2018.

    The public consultation seeks views on all aspects of the train service, including the provision of more space for passengers, improvements to customer service, simplifying fares and ticketing, improving access and facilities at stations, priorities for speeding up journeys, and providing additional services.

    Question 17 seeks views about whether passengers would support the principle of reducing the choice of London termini served from individual stations to provide a more regular timetable and reliable service. We are not proposing to reduce or change specific services. An example is provided to explain how the concept could potentially operate in practice if passengers supported it.

    This question is being asked because passengers have indicated that reducing delays is a priority. Paragraph 4.6 of the consultation document explains that one of the causes of delays is the need for trains to cross complex junctions at key points such as London Bridge and Lewisham, which are operating at close to maximum capability. Reducing the need for trains to cross these junctions, by reducing the number of London termini served from individual stations, would help to reduce delays.

    Journeys could also be quicker. It is currently necessary to add in waiting times at stations to timetable moves across these junctions and these could be reduced or eliminated if services ran to a single London termini.

    In the peak periods, the majority of passengers change at London Bridge, although a significant number do continue through to Cannon Street, Waterloo East, and Charing Cross. We know that these passengers value a choice of London stations.

    We are therefore seeking passengers’ views on the principle of reducing the choice of London termini to provide a more regular timetable and reliable service.

    In answering this question, it is important to consider the many new journey choices for passengers that will result from the completion of the Thameslink programme and the opening of the Elizabeth line. For example, by 2019, passengers from many South Eastern stations will be able to travel via Abbey Wood or Woolwich for fast and regular onward connections to Canary Wharf and central London. Many more passengers will change at London Bridge to join Thameslink trains that run every five minutes between London Bridge-Blackfriars-City Thameslink-Farringdon-St. Pancras.

    On the Bexleyheath line the number of passengers from intermediate stations between Dartford and Lewisham and who travel beyond Lewisham towards Victoria is relatively small when compared with those travelling on much faster trains to London Bridge. In the future some passenger from the outer stations on this route will travel via Abbey Wood and the Elizabeth line, or change at London Bridge for Thameslink onward connections. Overall all passengers will benefit from more reliable journeys and many will benefit from faster journey times.

    The public consultation will end on 23 May 2017, after which the Department for Transport will carefully analyse each response. The conclusions will be published in the Autumn in a Stakeholder Response document.

    It is important to note that there would need to be a separate public consultation by the next train operator before any significant timetable changes were introduced, and this would include reducing the choice of London termini served from stations on the South Eastern network.

    Department for Transport

    The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

    The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

    Thanks,
    The Petitions team
    UK Government and Parliament"


    Make of this what you will
  • I suspect when the consultation is complete only the Greenwich line will permanently become Cannon Street only. Bringing the Sidcup and Bexleyheath lines into the debate now is just noise so that when the decision is made to divert Greenwich line trains it will appear like a compromise.
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