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how much realistically do we need to invest in the squad

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    Pointless spending anything on the squad without first appointing a top top quality manager/coach and coaching assistants.
  • Options
    edited April 2017
    It all depends.

    IF we get someone who knows what a football looks like without it having to hit him/her square in the face, then we will spend more wisely and the football world will eventually stop seeing us as patsies and milking cows.

    These Belgian fools have been profligate with "their" money, unfortunately I am sure the fabled Roland piling on the debt to himself system will mean he comes away with his fingers slightly singed and not burnt crispy to nubs...

    The smouldering remains of Charlton Athletic will have to build modestly from the bottom and will take a fair few years to recover.
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    I suppose another way of looking at it is to ask how many clubs in League 1 have actually paid a transfer fee to another club since the last close season. I might have missed A few deals but, so far as I'm aware, Bolton haven't spent anything in terms of transfer fees and the same applies to Scunny, Fleetwood and Millwall. Not sure about Bradford but I doubt that they spent very much. Whilst Sheffield United may have pushed the boat out a bit in the January window, I don't think they bought anyone last summer.

    I suspect there were only a handful of transfers involving fees across the whole of League 1, with at least half of them involving us.

    What the more successful clubs at any level have is stability, good management and an ability to identify, attract and retain decent players. As others have said, in the halcyon days of Lennie and the Curbs, they and their scouting teams set a great deal of store by the character and hunger of prospective signings and no stone was left unturned in terms of due diligence. At the risk of understatement, young Thomas is not quite cut from the same cloth. Notwithstanding KR's optimistic noises about an "outstanding" budget, I very much doubt that the necessary legwork will have been done in preparation for next season.

    At present, we don't have any of the above attributes and our reputation in the game is at an all-time low. Be that as it may, we all know how that can change quickly - as it surely will - once we are rid of Duchatelet.
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    I mention higher sums of money for squad rebuilding in the fanciful thought that ambition would be part of a new owners mind set.

    After 38 years of watching Charlton this has to be the most underwhelming group of "players" ive seen assembled.

    Others mention earlier squads - however i cannot see any - rob lees, bowyers, mintos, Rufus's...et'al lisbie would be a world beater in the current first eleven bar holmes....

    We used to moan at hudson at the back....at the moment we don't have a 50 pence head llera

    Konsa may have potential, however imho he will not be as good as cousins, who in reality will never be fit to lick bowyers or parkers boots...let alone mort's or Kinsella's...
  • Options
    we need to invest a lot of grey matter and knowledge (as well as cash) into who we need and/or want for next season and beyond .. a lot of money and effort has been wasted during the last two transfer windows ..
    I am certain that Robinson and his present staff along with the Duchatalet/Meire 'advisers' are not fit for purpose for the job of long term team development

    we need a goalkeeper (Phillips I am sure is a lovely lad but is not up to speed as yet), two midfielders and two strikers as a minimum .. clever scouting is more necessary than a lot of cash .. there are bargains to be had in the lower divisions ..
    no good looking for rejects from the higher divisions, we need players who are hungry for success, players like Ricky Holmes, late developers who have perhaps bypassed the academy and over coaching structures and are coming good in their middle to late twenties ..
    wait until the close season and see who is available .. THEN worry about the money .. don't think 'we have a million to spend, who can we buy ?' rather think 'He's good, how much will he cost over (Say) two seasons ?' .. think Vardy, think Austin think Forest Green think Lincoln
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    Absolutely appreciate that Linc's, and if we are looking at new owners with a limited budget I agree.

    However it seems more like unicorn hunting in the current climate...i doubt we will ever see the likes of kinsella at 120k if I remember correctly from Colchester.

    Maybe I should have worded the topic better - assume we have 5-6 million....how is it spend best given our current squad... The longer we are in this division the more precarious the future of the club becomes (again in my opinion)
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    edited April 2017
    They also have to work out those in the current squad we need for next season. Magennis has not been so good since getting injured against Millwall, but he jas shown he is an asset for instance!
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    They also have to work out those in the current squad we need for next season. Magennis has not been so good since getting injured against Millwall, but he jas shown he is an asset for instance!

    Agreed....however what im suggesting is Magennis better than bwp? No where near and he is our main goal threat (aside from Holmes who appears to be the most naturally gifted player we have...who do we have in midfield for example - who is better than hollands (who many moaned about) - I don't see it, we are on the worst shape we have been since I can remember tbh
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    edited April 2017
    2-3m would be more than enough if spent wisely and we wanted to make a serious automatics push.

    Powell spent about 1-1.5 ish from memory? He did get "lucky" in some respects, with BWP and Kermo costing pennies between them. Well, either luck or good scouting.....
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  • Options
    As I said before, it does not matter how much they spend, it depends who will select the players to bring in and which to ship out
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    It also depends on who is leaving. It's all well and good saying we've got a million to spend and if spent wisely we could do well.

    But what if say Holmes, Magennis, Solly and Konsa go, as well as all the others.

    A million won't get you far, if you have to recruit 20 good players, even if a number are out of contract signings.
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    1 million is available, assume this is from the Lookman money, maybe more if other players are moved on.
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    Red_James said:

    For me next year starting line up would be:

    GK: Phillips / Rudd (would be free as his contract with Norwich ends this season and has made some good save mixed with terrible performances
    going with Robinsons 4-1-3-1-1
    RB: Solly/Konsa
    CB: Pearce / Bauer (if he isn't sold, not a bad player makes mistakes and apparently wants to leave)
    CB: Konsa / Lennon (providing he overcomes his injuries and isn't sold)
    LB: Page / Chicksen (his contract ends this season but is good cover player)

    CDM: Jackson/ Crofts (if either don't retire but need a bit more pace here or around them) / Need a new signing here or Konsa will be moved into this position - I feel Ulvestad could do this but hasn't been given much of a chance this season by Robinson so transfer is unlikely

    RM: Holmes
    CM: Aribo / Forster-Caskey
    LM: Ben Reeves (would be a free transfer ex-Robinson player and we was linked with him in January

    CAM/Behind Striker: Aribo / Ajose (He is a proven goal scorer and has pace that he could move around the main striker) - Holmes / Reeves / Forster-Caskey can fill in this position if needed

    ST/Target Man: Maggenis/Novak (started to link up with Ajose before injuries etc happened)

    I would sell Watt, Teixiera, Bauer (only if rumours are too about phone in the changing rooms).

    We need another CB, CDM, CM and additional of maybe 2 pacey wingers that can make an impact when coming on from the bench

    WOW ! Impressive or what ! Automatic promotion guaranteed.

    With those 20 lads on the pitch, surely nothing could go wrong......

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    Not a bean. Then that hopefully means he's selling up during the close season.
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    Red_James said:

    For me next year starting line up would be:

    GK: Phillips / Rudd (would be free as his contract with Norwich ends this season and has made some good save mixed with terrible performances
    going with Robinsons 4-1-3-1-1
    RB: Solly/Konsa
    CB: Pearce / Bauer (if he isn't sold, not a bad player makes mistakes and apparently wants to leave)
    CB: Konsa / Lennon (providing he overcomes his injuries and isn't sold)
    LB: Page / Chicksen (his contract ends this season but is good cover player)

    CDM: Jackson/ Crofts (if either don't retire but need a bit more pace here or around them) / Need a new signing here or Konsa will be moved into this position - I feel Ulvestad could do this but hasn't been given much of a chance this season by Robinson so transfer is unlikely

    RM: Holmes
    CM: Aribo / Forster-Caskey
    LM: Ben Reeves (would be a free transfer ex-Robinson player and we was linked with him in January

    CAM/Behind Striker: Aribo / Ajose (He is a proven goal scorer and has pace that he could move around the main striker) - Holmes / Reeves / Forster-Caskey can fill in this position if needed

    ST/Target Man: Maggenis/Novak (started to link up with Ajose before injuries etc happened)

    I would sell Watt, Teixiera, Bauer (only if rumours are too about phone in the changing rooms).

    We need another CB, CDM, CM and additional of maybe 2 pacey wingers that can make an impact when coming on from the bench

    WOW ! Impressive or what ! Automatic promotion guaranteed.

    With those 20 lads on the pitch, surely nothing could go wrong......


    Yes as i meant for all these players to play in each position! Idiot!!
  • Options
    A lot depends on who departs (of the decent first team players), and whether we're still stuck with the deadwood (including the likes of Sarr, Ceballos Igor, Kashi who are all still under expensive contract)

    The signing of Holmes of is exactly the type of player we need more of, a proper lower division player with a bit of hunger.

  • Options
    I would hold fire until the regime change actually happens. Until then, we do not have people making decisions that know how agents work or even know the worth of a player and what length/value their contracts should be, let alone whether they kit into a club plan (assuming there is one).
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    Red_James said:

    For me next year starting line up would be:

    GK: Phillips / Rudd (would be free as his contract with Norwich ends this season and has made some good save mixed with terrible performances
    going with Robinsons 4-1-3-1-1
    RB: Solly/Konsa
    CB: Pearce / Bauer (if he isn't sold, not a bad player makes mistakes and apparently wants to leave)
    CB: Konsa / Lennon (providing he overcomes his injuries and isn't sold)
    LB: Page / Chicksen (his contract ends this season but is good cover player)

    CDM: Jackson/ Crofts (if either don't retire but need a bit more pace here or around them) / Need a new signing here or Konsa will be moved into this position - I feel Ulvestad could do this but hasn't been given much of a chance this season by Robinson so transfer is unlikely

    RM: Holmes
    CM: Aribo / Forster-Caskey
    LM: Ben Reeves (would be a free transfer ex-Robinson player and we was linked with him in January

    CAM/Behind Striker: Aribo / Ajose (He is a proven goal scorer and has pace that he could move around the main striker) - Holmes / Reeves / Forster-Caskey can fill in this position if needed

    ST/Target Man: Maggenis/Novak (started to link up with Ajose before injuries etc happened)

    I would sell Watt, Teixiera, Bauer (only if rumours are too about phone in the changing rooms).

    We need another CB, CDM, CM and additional of maybe 2 pacey wingers that can make an impact when coming on from the bench

    That's basically our team at the moment! The only difference is you've got a couple of impact subs. Do you honestly believe the difference between us currently flirting with relegation and potentially getting promoted is a few substitutes?
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  • Options
    I honesty think we could win the league for under £2m, but it's where the money is spent.

  • Options
    Yes i think between the shit and bad injuries and poor coaching this term we have a few decent players that can get us in the promotion picture next year, look where we was in Dec/January just a few points of the play-offs. then injuries & suspensions happened to Pearce/Solly/Bauer/Tex/Holmes/Page (after Jan) and then a run of 11 games in February with a very small squad ruined us. Plus Robinson has played players out of position ie Aribo & Forster-Caskey as left wingers, Jackson at left back either through force or some pitiful tactics.

    We had the lowest goals conceded until around Dec/Jan in the league so defence can be solid (yes players have made individual errors in defence sometimes but that happens) our midfield is the biggest problem as there is no pace thats why we need a defensive minded CM with Aribo or Forster-Caskey to attack and a quick left winger as Holmes isn't the quickest and play Ajose with Maggenis.

    We will then have players in and around the strikers making plays and runs which create chances.

    This is how i would play with the current crop of players and a shoe string budget, we arnt going to get a new team with just £1mill and expect to reach promotion (Yes Powell achieved this a few years ago before transfer fee's sky rocketed the last couple years, and i don't think we have the luck to do it again/right people in charge/scouts etc in place to make this possible)
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    Tutt-Tutt said:

    Do some proper scouting and identify players who have the potential to get promoted and play at Championship level. If money is available and it takes a few transfer fees, it will obviously help to sign the better players.

    To do that the Manager must have a clear vision of the system and style of play he wants to use, and it must be effective for the level of football.

    We know it can be done, because CP and Phil Chapple did it.

    It ain't Rocket Science. Football is a simple game. If your players are better than theirs, then you will win more than them.

    If you over-complicate tactics and systems, and guess or gamble on signings, you will get nowhere.

    Nail hit on head here. However, how much we need and how much we will actually get, may I fear, be 2 completely different things.

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    Red_James said:

    For me next year starting line up would be:

    GK: Phillips / Rudd (would be free as his contract with Norwich ends this season and has made some good save mixed with terrible performances
    going with Robinsons 4-1-3-1-1
    RB: Solly/Konsa
    CB: Pearce / Bauer (if he isn't sold, not a bad player makes mistakes and apparently wants to leave)
    CB: Konsa / Lennon (providing he overcomes his injuries and isn't sold)
    LB: Page / Chicksen (his contract ends this season but is good cover player)

    CDM: Jackson/ Crofts (if either don't retire but need a bit more pace here or around them) / Need a new signing here or Konsa will be moved into this position - I feel Ulvestad could do this but hasn't been given much of a chance this season by Robinson so transfer is unlikely

    RM: Holmes
    CM: Aribo / Forster-Caskey
    LM: Ben Reeves (would be a free transfer ex-Robinson player and we was linked with him in January

    CAM/Behind Striker: Aribo / Ajose (He is a proven goal scorer and has pace that he could move around the main striker) - Holmes / Reeves / Forster-Caskey can fill in this position if needed

    ST/Target Man: Maggenis/Novak (started to link up with Ajose before injuries etc happened)

    I would sell Watt, Teixiera, Bauer (only if rumours are too about phone in the changing rooms).

    We need another CB, CDM, CM and additional of maybe 2 pacey wingers that can make an impact when coming on from the bench

    That's basically our team at the moment! The only difference is you've got a couple of impact subs. Do you honestly believe the difference between us currently flirting with relegation and potentially getting promoted is a few substitutes?
    On paper that team isn't half bad for this level, so I get the point - but it's already tried and failed miserably.

    The midfield two of Jacskon/Crofts is where I'd look first to spend maybe £1m or so and get two properly decent, fit, at their peak, League 1 midfielders alongside Konsa (and Aribo). Maybe a Stephen Dawson-esque bruiser and 'the next' Dale Stephens (if I had a magic wand to find him).

    Think we also need a left midfielder and a decent left back, which might cost £500k - £1m as well as well as a couple of 'the right' squad players (i.e. more of a Wilson than a Watt in terms of mentality).

    Between Magennis, Novak and Ajose - we have the goals in the side if one hits form and the midfield starts creating chances. I also think the midfield, as well as lack of consistency in the back-4, is our main issue with conceding goals. Crofts for example sits so deep and invites pressure when we're off the ball, and I feel like our wingers expose us too much - Solly is way better than his performances this season.

    GK - Rudd/Phillips --> happy with either from what I've seen

    DF - Solly Lennon Pearce Page --> if settled/injury free I think that'd still be more than enough for L1. Needs 1 more decent player plus Konsa to cover for emergencies. I'd ship Bauer and Tex.

    I think MK's full-back Baldock really showed us what we're missing at full-back, particularly at LB, on Tues night.

    MF - Holmes Konsa *new* *new* --> Aribo backing up, with probably another newbie. "All change please".

    FW - Novak/Mag/Ajose --> Needs another in the mix, maybe time for KAG or Kennedy. But I don't think quality is the issue here.

  • Options

    Red_James said:

    For me next year starting line up would be:

    GK: Phillips / Rudd (would be free as his contract with Norwich ends this season and has made some good save mixed with terrible performances
    going with Robinsons 4-1-3-1-1
    RB: Solly/Konsa
    CB: Pearce / Bauer (if he isn't sold, not a bad player makes mistakes and apparently wants to leave)
    CB: Konsa / Lennon (providing he overcomes his injuries and isn't sold)
    LB: Page / Chicksen (his contract ends this season but is good cover player)

    CDM: Jackson/ Crofts (if either don't retire but need a bit more pace here or around them) / Need a new signing here or Konsa will be moved into this position - I feel Ulvestad could do this but hasn't been given much of a chance this season by Robinson so transfer is unlikely

    RM: Holmes
    CM: Aribo / Forster-Caskey
    LM: Ben Reeves (would be a free transfer ex-Robinson player and we was linked with him in January

    CAM/Behind Striker: Aribo / Ajose (He is a proven goal scorer and has pace that he could move around the main striker) - Holmes / Reeves / Forster-Caskey can fill in this position if needed

    ST/Target Man: Maggenis/Novak (started to link up with Ajose before injuries etc happened)

    I would sell Watt, Teixiera, Bauer (only if rumours are too about phone in the changing rooms).

    We need another CB, CDM, CM and additional of maybe 2 pacey wingers that can make an impact when coming on from the bench

    That's basically our team at the moment! The only difference is you've got a couple of impact subs. Do you honestly believe the difference between us currently flirting with relegation and potentially getting promoted is a few substitutes?
    On paper that team isn't half bad for this level, so I get the point - but it's already tried and failed miserably.

    The midfield two of Jacskon/Crofts is where I'd look first to spend maybe £1m or so and get two properly decent, fit, at their peak, League 1 midfielders alongside Konsa (and Aribo). Maybe a Stephen Dawson-esque bruiser and 'the next' Dale Stephens (if I had a magic wand to find him).

    Think we also need a left midfielder and a decent left back, which might cost £500k - £1m as well as well as a couple of 'the right' squad players (i.e. more of a Wilson than a Watt in terms of mentality).

    Between Magennis, Novak and Ajose - we have the goals in the side if one hits form and the midfield starts creating chances. I also think the midfield, as well as lack of consistency in the back-4, is our main issue with conceding goals. Crofts for example sits so deep and invites pressure when we're off the ball, and I feel like our wingers expose us too much - Solly is way better than his performances this season.

    GK - Rudd/Phillips --> happy with either from what I've seen

    DF - Solly Lennon Pearce Page --> if settled/injury free I think that'd still be more than enough for L1. Needs 1 more decent player plus Konsa to cover for emergencies. I'd ship Bauer and Tex.

    I think MK's full-back Baldock really showed us what we're missing at full-back, particularly at LB, on Tues night.

    MF - Holmes Konsa *new* *new* --> Aribo backing up, with probably another newbie. "All change please".

    FW - Novak/Mag/Ajose --> Needs another in the mix, maybe time for KAG or Kennedy. But I don't think quality is the issue here.

    I've lost count of the number of times in the last couple of years that I've looked at our teamsheet on matchday and thought "Yeah, that looks pretty good, that's quite a strong line-up."
    The crazy thing is that the number of times I've been disappointed afterwards is a higher number. It's mathematically impossible, but that's what it's been like.
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    edited April 2017
    folder said:

    They also have to work out those in the current squad we need for next season. Magennis has not been so good since getting injured against Millwall, but he jas shown he is an asset for instance!

    Agreed....however what im suggesting is Magennis better than bwp? No where near and he is our main goal threat (aside from Holmes who appears to be the most naturally gifted player we have...who do we have in midfield for example - who is better than hollands (who many moaned about) - I don't see it, we are on the worst shape we have been since I can remember tbh
    I agree with you. I think we need to inject goals into the squad too. Too many what I call missers. I don't want to go overboard on Novak, but I can recall quite a few (too many) dropped points where he had a good, sometimes great chances to put us in the driving seat. For much of that promotion season BWP was putting the ball away like a top championship striker at least - a potentially tight game and we'd get a half chance - 1-0. Sometimes another 2-0.

    When you go through our team - You have Tex who scores an above average amount for a centre half, then Holmes who gets more than his share for his position, then everybody else is below average, some pathetically below average. Some players have other attributes which you can carry, I would say Magennis falls into this category, but we can't have too many of them in the side.

    Hollands knew where the goal was - our current midfiled don't chip in enough in that respect. When you have a scorer like BWP in the side, it takes the pressure off the other players, but you need scorers through the team if you can't dig a BWP up!



  • Options
    The squad broadly needs one more player in every position to compete comfortably at this level, so probably 9 or 10 bodies.
    If Nicky Ajose cost upwards of £500k, a round £5M might cover acquisition fees, signing on, agents etc. Comfortably 3 times what it cost CP, PV, et al to acquire a title winning side 6 summers ago. By this stage in 2011 that planning and research was already well under way and conducted by experienced, dedicated personnel, who all sang from the same hymn sheet.
    Differences to now are legion: no planning yet undertaken, club management has descended to parody, team management descended further, no scouts.
    Even if roly provided £10M for transfer fees and the maximum permissible operating budget under FFP, Charlton will end up in League 2 no later than May 2018. All the while the septuagenarian shitforbrains presides over his toxic pantomime Charlton will continue with its humiliating script of pratfalls and blundering. The budget for transfers or wages is irrelevant until such time as there are any competent, dedicated staff in post to manage the football club. It is now so bad that the less roly's stooges, lickspittles and toadies are allowed to spend, the better for Charlton's medium and long term health. The less these fuckwits and spongers are allowed to fool around, the smaller the damage that will need repairing.
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    Tutt-Tutt said:

    Do some proper scouting and identify players who have the potential to get promoted and play at Championship level. If money is available and it takes a few transfer fees, it will obviously help to sign the better players.

    To do that the Manager must have a clear vision of the system and style of play he wants to use, and it must be effective for the level of football.

    We know it can be done, because CP and Phil Chapple did it.

    It ain't Rocket Science. Football is a simple game. If your players are better than theirs, then you will win more than them.

    If you over-complicate tactics and systems, and guess or gamble on signings, you will get nowhere.

    Nail hit on head here. However, how much we need and how much we will actually get, may I fear, be 2 completely different things.


    Trouble is, the club have set themselves up for another fail in the off-season. The minimal budget aside, the chief scout was sacked nearly 3 weeks ago and still hasn't been replaced. Neither Slade, nor Robinson rated him so can we assume that all of his prior scouting and assessment work is not to be trusted and is going in the bin? Do all his scouting contacts disappear along with him and the whole thing needs to rebuilt and re-organised yet again?

    Just when we should be finalising targets for next season, we have no head scout, a possibly suspect database of players, Driessen still lurking in the background and a manager who is by no means certain of being at Charlton next season.

    It was interesting to read VOTV to see how Powell, Chapple and Varney went about rebuilding Charlton for the promotion season. I don't believe there is anybody currently at the club even remotely capable of repeating that.
  • Options
    will be on of our new strikers next season;


    Billy Sharp
    Sheff Utd
    26 Goals scored
    6 Assists

    James Vaughan
    Bury
    22 Goals scored
    1 Assists

    Josh Morris
    Scunthorpe
    19 Goals scored
    13 Assists

    Matty Taylor
    Bristol Rovers
    16 Goals scored
    0 Assists


    Lee Gregory
    Millwall
    15 Goals scored
    4 Assists

    Erhun Oztumer
    Walsall
    14 Goals scored
    4 Assists


    thats going on tommys scouting
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    will be on of our new strikers next season;


    Billy Sharp
    Sheff Utd
    26 Goals scored
    6 Assists

    James Vaughan
    Bury
    22 Goals scored
    1 Assists

    Josh Morris
    Scunthorpe
    19 Goals scored
    13 Assists

    Matty Taylor
    Bristol Rovers
    16 Goals scored
    0 Assists


    Lee Gregory
    Millwall
    15 Goals scored
    4 Assists

    Erhun Oztumer
    Walsall
    14 Goals scored
    4 Assists


    thats going on tommys scouting

    Nah we'll go on the League Two scoring lists... Or even Conference as they'll be cheaper

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_EFL_League_Two#Top_goalscorers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_National_League#Top_scorers
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