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Shares Thread for the next Gordon Gekko's

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  • You can't go too far wrong with Hargreaves Lansdowne for cost/service

    You can, because Halifax is the cheapest.
    They're not....
    Apologies. HL at £11.95 beat Halifax at £12.50 for small deals. (I'm presuming canters won't be a market mover).
    Certainly not... just wanna have a little play around maybe throw a little something at something more long term and leave it for a while.
    If you want to have a play with buying and selling then crack on but if you are looking to put some money into stocks and shares long term you won't go far wrong with a stocks and shares ISA.

    I have one with AEGON and it has been flying for the last five years, it has out performed many funds and with the little knowledge I have I could not have matched it playing around.

    All I do is log on and see how much it has increased every quarter so not very exciting but watching the pound signs going up works for me and of course all tax free.

    Disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor, the value of your investments can go down as well as up.
  • edited July 2017
    The thing is we've been in a bull market for 8 years, so it's likely most funds will have done well over that time. Personally, I feel the UK stock market and property market may fall in the short term, but who knows ?

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ftse+all+share&oq=FTSE&aqs=chrome.3.0j69i57j0l4.3132j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  • You can't go too far wrong with Hargreaves Lansdowne for cost/service

    You can, because Halifax is the cheapest.
    They're not....
    Apologies. HL at £11.95 beat Halifax at £12.50 for small deals. (I'm presuming canters won't be a market mover).
    Certainly not... just wanna have a little play around maybe throw a little something at something more long term and leave it for a while.
    If you want to have a play with buying and selling then crack on but if you are looking to put some money into stocks and shares long term you won't go far wrong with a stocks and shares ISA.

    I have one with AEGON and it has been flying for the last five years, it has out performed many funds and with the little knowledge I have I could not have matched it playing around.

    All I do is log on and see how much it has increased every quarter so not very exciting but watching the pound signs going up works for me and of course all tax free.

    Disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor, the value of your investments can go down as well as up.
    Thanks. To be honest I'm very much atill in the wanna have a play around and a bit of fun with it phase. I've always had a bit if an interest and I wanna see if any theoretical economics is in the slightest bit relevant (doubt it). It'll be a long time before I have any serious money worth putting away for the long term.
  • The thing is we've been in a bull market for 8 years, so it's likely most funds will have done well over that time. Personally, I feel the UK stock market and property market may fall in the short term, but who knows ?

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ftse+all+share&oq=FTSE&aqs=chrome.3.0j69i57j0l4.3132j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Bang on CE, hence my disclaimer, everything is cyclical.
  • Still stick with SXX long term. Trying to add (whenever I have any spare money) on falls.
    BZM still volatile but due a big bounce IMO soon.
    Also have an interest in OTC which I think is very undervalued.
  • edited July 2017

    Still stick with SXX long term. Trying to add (whenever I have any spare money) on falls.
    BZM still volatile but due a big bounce IMO soon.
    Also have an interest in OTC which I think is very undervalued.

    I've been invested in OTC for years now, got exactly 500k shares. Providing all of their projects start to come good (it's been a very long time coming) they could be worth 10x and more of what they are now within a couple of years.

    They better be anyway, that's my fund so I can retire at 40!
  • You can't go too far wrong with Hargreaves Lansdowne for cost/service

    You can, because Halifax is the cheapest.
    They're not....
    Apologies. HL at £11.95 beat Halifax at £12.50 for small deals. (I'm presuming canters won't be a market mover).
    Certainly not... just wanna have a little play around maybe throw a little something at something more long term and leave it for a while.
    If you want to have a play with buying and selling then crack on but if you are looking to put some money into stocks and shares long term you won't go far wrong with a stocks and shares ISA.

    I have one with AEGON and it has been flying for the last five years, it has out performed many funds and with the little knowledge I have I could not have matched it playing around.

    All I do is log on and see how much it has increased every quarter so not very exciting but watching the pound signs going up works for me and of course all tax free.

    Disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor, the value of your investments can go down as well as up.
    As I am a Financial advisor al I would say is THIS.

    Fine, if you have a couple of hundred (or thousand if you can really afford it) spare the why not "play the markets", but remember , its just the same as betting n the 2.30 at kempton or black/red on the roulette table.

    Remember, for every M&S, Glaxo & Glencoe there are Woolworths, Coloroll & BHS.
  • You can't go too far wrong with Hargreaves Lansdowne for cost/service

    You can, because Halifax is the cheapest.
    They're not....
    Apologies. HL at £11.95 beat Halifax at £12.50 for small deals. (I'm presuming canters won't be a market mover).
    Certainly not... just wanna have a little play around maybe throw a little something at something more long term and leave it for a while.
    If you want to have a play with buying and selling then crack on but if you are looking to put some money into stocks and shares long term you won't go far wrong with a stocks and shares ISA.

    I have one with AEGON and it has been flying for the last five years, it has out performed many funds and with the little knowledge I have I could not have matched it playing around.

    All I do is log on and see how much it has increased every quarter so not very exciting but watching the pound signs going up works for me and of course all tax free.

    Disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor, the value of your investments can go down as well as up.
    As I am a Financial advisor al I would say is THIS.

    Fine, if you have a couple of hundred (or thousand if you can really afford it) spare the why not "play the markets", but remember , its just the same as betting n the 2.30 at kempton or black/red on the roulette table.

    Remember, for every M&S, Glaxo & Glencoe there are Woolworths, Coloroll & BHS.
    The key difference is that so long as you have reasonable diversification and invest in 'real' businesses (with earnings, growth, cash flow etc) then unlike the horses or roulette, you have a positive expected return in the long term due to the equity risk premium you earn (plus dividends).

    This doesn't mean of course that every investor will make money (depends on timing etc) but the average investor will.

    This is the opposite of the horses/roulette where every punter will lose money in the end if they play for long enough.
  • You can't go too far wrong with Hargreaves Lansdowne for cost/service

    You can, because Halifax is the cheapest.
    They're not....
    Apologies. HL at £11.95 beat Halifax at £12.50 for small deals. (I'm presuming canters won't be a market mover).
    Certainly not... just wanna have a little play around maybe throw a little something at something more long term and leave it for a while.
    If you want to have a play with buying and selling then crack on but if you are looking to put some money into stocks and shares long term you won't go far wrong with a stocks and shares ISA.

    I have one with AEGON and it has been flying for the last five years, it has out performed many funds and with the little knowledge I have I could not have matched it playing around.

    All I do is log on and see how much it has increased every quarter so not very exciting but watching the pound signs going up works for me and of course all tax free.

    Disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor, the value of your investments can go down as well as up.
    As I am a Financial advisor al I would say is THIS.

    Fine, if you have a couple of hundred (or thousand if you can really afford it) spare the why not "play the markets", but remember , its just the same as betting n the 2.30 at kempton or black/red on the roulette table.

    Remember, for every M&S, Glaxo & Glencoe there are Woolworths, Coloroll & BHS.
    It's not REALLY just the same though. Unless you are really, really unlucky and a company goes bust you will always get out with the majority of your capital back and will (often) have benefited from the dividends in the meantime. With the gee gees or roulette, if your horse or number loses you lose - everything. (I'm guessing casinos/bookmakers don't pay you an annual 3% plus per year?) As with everything it's an eggs and baskets situation. I've had two total failures in recent years, William Sinclair (which I didn't think was speculative) and some oil company, Sefton Resources (which was). Those two cost me £3k but other stuff has more than made up for it.
  • cafcfan said:

    You can't go too far wrong with Hargreaves Lansdowne for cost/service

    You can, because Halifax is the cheapest.
    They're not....
    Apologies. HL at £11.95 beat Halifax at £12.50 for small deals. (I'm presuming canters won't be a market mover).
    Certainly not... just wanna have a little play around maybe throw a little something at something more long term and leave it for a while.
    If you want to have a play with buying and selling then crack on but if you are looking to put some money into stocks and shares long term you won't go far wrong with a stocks and shares ISA.

    I have one with AEGON and it has been flying for the last five years, it has out performed many funds and with the little knowledge I have I could not have matched it playing around.

    All I do is log on and see how much it has increased every quarter so not very exciting but watching the pound signs going up works for me and of course all tax free.

    Disclaimer, I am not a financial advisor, the value of your investments can go down as well as up.
    As I am a Financial advisor al I would say is THIS.

    Fine, if you have a couple of hundred (or thousand if you can really afford it) spare the why not "play the markets", but remember , its just the same as betting n the 2.30 at kempton or black/red on the roulette table.

    Remember, for every M&S, Glaxo & Glencoe there are Woolworths, Coloroll & BHS.
    It's not REALLY just the same though. Unless you are really, really unlucky and a company goes bust you will always get out with the majority of your capital back and will (often) have benefited from the dividends in the meantime. With the gee gees or roulette, if your horse or number loses you lose - everything. (I'm guessing casinos/bookmakers don't pay you an annual 3% plus per year?) As with everything it's an eggs and baskets situation. I've had two total failures in recent years, William Sinclair (which I didn't think was speculative) and some oil company, Sefton Resources (which was). Those two cost me £3k but other stuff has more than made up for it.
    I put a grand into CAFC's shares in the 90's, never received a dividend or anything and then lost all my money. However that was my heart ruling my head.
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  • Although my portfolio (not that large but I like the word) is mainly in USD, I have mainly moved away from individual stocks to buy ETFs. Plenty of info available online for those that don't know anything about them. Traded on the stock exchange but you lose the volatility of individual failures.

    Golfie, as an FA, what do you think of this strategy? It's worked for me; I'm over 10% up on the year to date and I'm very happy with this as the main aim was to beat the bank rate.
  • Although my portfolio (not that large but I like the word) is mainly in USD, I have mainly moved away from individual stocks to buy ETFs. Plenty of info available online for those that don't know anything about them. Traded on the stock exchange but you lose the volatility of individual failures.

    Golfie, as an FA, what do you think of this strategy? It's worked for me; I'm over 10% up on the year to date and I'm very happy with this as the main aim was to beat the bank rate.

    As an IFA I am not allowed to advise on individual share dealing & so my main advice is to have a well rounded portfolio (a mix of share, bonds & commercial property) with the share element again a selection of UK, US, European, Far East & Emerging Countries. In the main this would start off in an ISA but if your lucky enough to have more then £20k to invest then there are collectives & Investment Bonds, Pensions (but the rules are getting more stringent every year) and even Structures Products, VCT's & EIS.'s Most ISA's now will allows OEIC's, Investment Trusts & EFT's so that's really the best place to start.
  • Although my portfolio (not that large but I like the word) is mainly in USD, I have mainly moved away from individual stocks to buy ETFs. Plenty of info available online for those that don't know anything about them. Traded on the stock exchange but you lose the volatility of individual failures.

    Golfie, as an FA, what do you think of this strategy? It's worked for me; I'm over 10% up on the year to date and I'm very happy with this as the main aim was to beat the bank rate.

    As an IFA I am not allowed to advise on individual share dealing & so my main advice is to have a well rounded portfolio (a mix of share, bonds & commercial property) with the share element again a selection of UK, US, European, Far East & Emerging Countries. In the main this would start off in an ISA but if your lucky enough to have more then £20k to invest then there are collectives & Investment Bonds, Pensions (but the rules are getting more stringent every year) and even Structures Products, VCT's & EIS.'s Most ISA's now will allows OEIC's, Investment Trusts & EFT's so that's really the best place to start.
    Thanks. Mine is offshore so no worries about ISA limits etc. It's mainly US right now but I'm looking at putting some GBP in very soon. Totally agree re diversity though.
  • smiffyboy said:

    Not that knowledgeable when it comes to shares but do have the odd play. Stumbled across UKOG and bought a fair few @ 2.7p. If you look into the company and do some homework a few RNS's have come out recently and it would seem they may have hit the black jackpot in the Gatwick area, shares are upto 5p and if tests prove conclusive could rise massively.

    As I say I'm an amateur but this looks like it could be a real hot one.

    Climbing daily just hit 6.9p
  • Certainly looks like one you need to keep your eye on.
    Have you a sell/get out price in mind?
    Personally on shares like this, I like to try and get my money back and play with what is in essence "free shares".
  • Certainly looks like one you need to keep your eye on.
    Have you a sell/get out price in mind?
    Personally on shares like this, I like to try and get my money back and play with what is in essence "free shares".

    On the up again this morning, I have currently just over £700 invested courtesy of bet365 which cost me £10 so I will ride it out for a while and see what happens.
  • The US market. Spy, QQQ (Nasdaq etf) IWM (Russell 2000 etf)
    Mitigate risk by avoiding individual stocks. Where possible hold the option rather than the stock itself. Sell short term (weekly if possible) puts on the down days, sell calls on any acquired stock on the up days. Never hold stock without placing a stop sell order at an acceptable loss level, and try not to hold anything for too long and certainly avoid holding during earnings season when you can get badly burnt, it's not worth the risk. Buy and hold may have worked well for Warren Buffett, but the markets have become too volatile, and too sensitive to geopolitical events to be as effective in the modern era. Options love volatility, but squeaky bum time for the buy and holders.
    The Trump factor is starting to kick in. Earnings season has been great thus far. Confidence is returning to corporate America, mergers and acquisitions are gaining pace. His tax cuts, if and when he can finally move away from healthcare, will be a game changer and the market is moving in anticipation.
    All bets are off if he fails to get tax reform through, but I have every confidence that he will succeed.
  • Just saw this linked on another thread and forgot all about it.

    I'm selling my Astazeneca stock in the next few weeks. Think it'll still move up but a big three months coming up and for the price per share too risky for me. Rumour on the street is that the Chinese government is going after them for a very large tax bill.

    My largest exposure is to Worldpay currently. On the day of their IPO I bought at 246p per share and they're currently at 299p. The great thing about them for me is they have a mature and stable brand in the UK and practically no US presence, but are investing heavily to grow that market.

    I think they'll be 5-10% up on current levels and around 310-320p by the year end.

    Well... takeover speculation has buoyed WorldPay share prices and they were trading at 411p at lunch time. I sold all my shares with them at £1.64 profit each when I saw that price as although I expect them to rise over the next few weeks, I also expect them to crash hard as they're trading at an inflated takeover price.

    The challenge with a WorldPay buyout will always be agreeing a suitable value of the potential of their US Business. It's where two other takeovers have failed and where I would expect this one to fall down too.
  • "Buy and hold may have worked well for Warren Buffett, but the markets have become too volatile, and too sensitive to geopolitical events to be as effective in the modern era."

    Your strategy is trading rather than investing and that requires an entirely different level of knowledge and application. You make most money trading in a volatile market because you are basically spread betting with ever more bets. No different to a bookmaker who makes more money if there are ten races a day than if there were only five.

    But Warren Buffet is not a trader he is investing his capital for a reward over a set time horizon at a level of risk that fits his appetite for protecting his capital.

    I was around when Black Money happened in 1987. The Japanese market had grown 100 fold over a few decades and we were told we were in a different era and traditional market valuations were no longer valid.

    I would suggest there is no such thing as a "modern era" in investing, every cycle has been repeated and by definition it will fall when it has reached the top. it's only new if you've never seen it before.

    We have volatile markets, but have always had volatile markets, all that has changed as far as i can see is that technology allows more volatility, over shorter cycles. All you are seeing is a more erratic path tracing the economic cycle which should not be confused with a change of fundamental investment drivers.

    Traders may not lose as much in a market crash as long term investors who are newly invested, and many might even profit. So not saying anything wrong with a trading strategy, just saying don't confuse it with investing savings for a long term return on capital.

    Risk can be measured mathematically and professional investors first set the level of return they target, or the level of risk they want to take, and then compare and contrast all the alternative strategies to arrive at the one that statistically gives the prospect of the target return at the lowest risk or the highest return from the given risk. Unless you have measured risk which sits on the other side of the scales to returns, you are riding blindfold.
  • The US market. Spy, QQQ (Nasdaq etf) IWM (Russell 2000 etf)
    Mitigate risk by avoiding individual stocks. Where possible hold the option rather than the stock itself. Sell short term (weekly if possible) puts on the down days, sell calls on any acquired stock on the up days. Never hold stock without placing a stop sell order at an acceptable loss level, and try not to hold anything for too long and certainly avoid holding during earnings season when you can get badly burnt, it's not worth the risk. Buy and hold may have worked well for Warren Buffett, but the markets have become too volatile, and too sensitive to geopolitical events to be as effective in the modern era. Options love volatility, but squeaky bum time for the buy and holders.
    The Trump factor is starting to kick in. Earnings season has been great thus far. Confidence is returning to corporate America, mergers and acquisitions are gaining pace. His tax cuts, if and when he can finally move away from healthcare, will be a game changer and the market is moving in anticipation.
    All bets are off if he fails to get tax reform through, but I have every confidence that he will succeed.

    That's just gambling though, not investing. How it works is that for every winner, there will be a corresponding loser. It's punter vs bookmaker all over again. My guess is going to be that the loser is going to be the day trader sitting at home having a best guess and the winner will be the professional with some algorithmic trading programme. In the meantime you won't get the dividends. Have a look at what reinvesting dividends does for investment growth.
    Or if you believe options are really the way to go, by shares in firms that specialise in this behaviour (like Man Group) and benefit from them taking hefty fees from wealthy but greedy investors.
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  • edited August 2017
    cafcfan said:

    The US market. Spy, QQQ (Nasdaq etf) IWM (Russell 2000 etf)
    Mitigate risk by avoiding individual stocks. Where possible hold the option rather than the stock itself. Sell short term (weekly if possible) puts on the down days, sell calls on any acquired stock on the up days. Never hold stock without placing a stop sell order at an acceptable loss level, and try not to hold anything for too long and certainly avoid holding during earnings season when you can get badly burnt, it's not worth the risk. Buy and hold may have worked well for Warren Buffett, but the markets have become too volatile, and too sensitive to geopolitical events to be as effective in the modern era. Options love volatility, but squeaky bum time for the buy and holders.
    The Trump factor is starting to kick in. Earnings season has been great thus far. Confidence is returning to corporate America, mergers and acquisitions are gaining pace. His tax cuts, if and when he can finally move away from healthcare, will be a game changer and the market is moving in anticipation.
    All bets are off if he fails to get tax reform through, but I have every confidence that he will succeed.

    That's just gambling though, not investing. How it works is that for every winner, there will be a corresponding loser. It's punter vs bookmaker all over again. My guess is going to be that the loser is going to be the day trader sitting at home having a best guess and the winner will be the professional with some algorithmic trading programme. In the meantime you won't get the dividends. Have a look at what reinvesting dividends does for investment growth.
    Or if you believe options are really the way to go, by shares in firms that specialise in this behaviour (like Man Group) and benefit from them taking hefty fees from wealthy but greedy investors.
    Believe me, over the past 20 years or so, I've tried buy and hold, managed funds, investment trusts etc etc. They are all gambling, taking a bet that the market will rise. Trading options is the only strategy to give me consistent returns in all market conditions, including a 20% drop the Xmas/Jan before last.
    Hanging on to a stock, just because it pays a decent dividend can be very counterproductive if it suddenly crashes 5% one day, that can be two years worth of dividends down the drain, and the reason why I largely ignore dividends, they can suck you into holding stocks long term, very often with poor capital growth.
    Compounding growth is a very powerful tool, which is why I set very modest goals of 2-3% per month, 24-36% per year and I've achieved that every year. I never managed that consistently with a buy/hold strategy. By generating weekly income into your brokerage account, which can then be instantly reinvested to generate even more income, you are utilising the wonders of compounding growth each and every week.
    On a stock such as QQQ, by selling a weekly call and a put, a 1% income can be instantly obtained per week. You are effectively using the stock as an income producing vehicle. If your call gets exercised, you earn even more than the 1% as you collect additional upside profit (the strike price of your call). If the stock falls, well then your put gets assigned and you buy even more of your income producing vehicle, but at a cheaper price. That enables you to sell more calls the following week, and produce even more income! The beauty is, you have instantly built in a 1% buffer against any losses, ie only if the stock drops by more than 1% in the week, do you start to lose any money. I don't get emotionally attached to any stocks anymore, they are just my income producing machines, in fact I try hard to avoid holding stock for more than a week. With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock.
    With buy/hold you're stuck with declining assets that are generating nothing (except perhaps a dividend), so simple buy/hold is a more risky strategy as far as I'm concerned, and why the average investor does poorly, as do most fund managers.
    Using an online broker like Interactive Brokers, trading is dirt cheap, cents to sell an option, which allows you to trade to your hearts content.
    The secret is to have a strategy with a set of rules in place, including exit strategies (very important), and to only use stocks that you are comfortable holding for the long term, if you were to get stuck with them.
    I'm not saying it's for everyone, but to me, it's far less risky than buy and hold which I now see as a mugs game (having been a mug many times over the years). It sure beats going to work, in fact you can make money wherever you can get an internet connection anywhere in the world.
  • cafcfan said:

    The US market. Spy, QQQ (Nasdaq etf) IWM (Russell 2000 etf)
    Mitigate risk by avoiding individual stocks. Where possible hold the option rather than the stock itself. Sell short term (weekly if possible) puts on the down days, sell calls on any acquired stock on the up days. Never hold stock without placing a stop sell order at an acceptable loss level, and try not to hold anything for too long and certainly avoid holding during earnings season when you can get badly burnt, it's not worth the risk. Buy and hold may have worked well for Warren Buffett, but the markets have become too volatile, and too sensitive to geopolitical events to be as effective in the modern era. Options love volatility, but squeaky bum time for the buy and holders.
    The Trump factor is starting to kick in. Earnings season has been great thus far. Confidence is returning to corporate America, mergers and acquisitions are gaining pace. His tax cuts, if and when he can finally move away from healthcare, will be a game changer and the market is moving in anticipation.
    All bets are off if he fails to get tax reform through, but I have every confidence that he will succeed.

    That's just gambling though, not investing. How it works is that for every winner, there will be a corresponding loser. It's punter vs bookmaker all over again. My guess is going to be that the loser is going to be the day trader sitting at home having a best guess and the winner will be the professional with some algorithmic trading programme. In the meantime you won't get the dividends. Have a look at what reinvesting dividends does for investment growth.
    Or if you believe options are really the way to go, by shares in firms that specialise in this behaviour (like Man Group) and benefit from them taking hefty fees from wealthy but greedy investors.
    Believe me, over the past 20 years or so, I've tried buy and hold, managed funds, investment trusts etc etc. They are all gambling, taking a bet that the market will rise. Trading options is the only strategy to give me consistent returns in all market conditions, including a 20% drop the Xmas/Jan before last.
    Hanging on to a stock, just because it pays a decent dividend can be very counterproductive if it suddenly crashes 5% one day, that can be two years worth of dividends down the drain, and the reason why I largely ignore dividends, they can suck you into holding stocks long term, very often with poor capital growth.
    Compounding growth is a very powerful tool, which is why I set very modest goals of 2-3% per month, 24-36% per year and I've achieved that every year. I never managed that consistently with a buy/hold strategy. By generating weekly income into your brokerage account, which can then be instantly reinvested to generate even more income, you are utilising the wonders of compounding growth each and every week.
    On a stock such as QQQ, by selling a weekly call and a put, a 1% income can be instantly obtained per week. You are effectively using the stock as an income producing vehicle. If your call gets exercised, you earn even more than the 1% as you collect additional upside profit (the strike price of your call). If the stock falls, well then your put gets assigned and you buy even more of your income producing vehicle, but at a cheaper price. That enables you to sell more calls the following week, and produce even more income! The beauty is, you have instantly built in a 1% buffer against any losses, ie only if the stock drops by more than 1% in the week, do you start to lose any money. I don't get emotionally attached to any stocks anymore, they are just my income producing machines, in fact I try hard to avoid holding stock for more than a week. With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock.
    With buy/hold you're stuck with declining assets that are generating nothing (except perhaps a dividend), so simple buy/hold is a more risky strategy as far as I'm concerned, and why the average investor does poorly, as do most fund managers.
    Using an online broker like Interactive Brokers, trading is dirt cheap, cents to sell an option, which allows you to trade to your hearts content.
    The secret is to have a strategy with a set of rules in place, including exit strategies (very important), and to only use stocks that you are comfortable holding for the long term, if you were to get stuck with them.
    I'm not saying it's for everyone, but to me, it's far less risky than buy and hold which I now see as a mugs game (having been a mug many times over the years). It sure beats going to work, in fact you can make money wherever you can get an internet connection anywhere in the world.
    I am not sufficiently competent to understand how to do this successfully. You must be very good at it.
  • "With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock. "

    The risk that you give no weight to is market downturn - "this income that offsets any potential market downturn". You will profit if this risk does not materialised and you have clearly profited, but at some time markets will shift and an adjusted strategy is needed.

    We were given access to the Man trading platform in a competition and could play any of the markets starting with a pretend £1m but trading on their actual real time screens. I made £550k in a day with put and call options as you describe and know it's deceptively easy to bet so that you lose less than you win. It's also as clear as day that without volatility you are treading water. The traders play a percentage game, they profit from thousands of mathematically calculated trades between correlated assets where one is mis-priced for a nano second. They are not calling the market and they don't try, they let the punters do that. If markets are only moving one way rather than up and down, your strategy doesn't work.

    The reality is unless you are not human you will let your instincts, rather than the odds, dictate your moves and consistently calling the market in the wrong direction will wipe you out. You have yet to buy low and find it was actually the high.
  • "With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock. "

    The risk that you give no weight to is market downturn - "this income that offsets any potential market downturn". You will profit if this risk does not materialised and you have clearly profited, but at some time markets will shift and an adjusted strategy is needed.

    We were given access to the Man trading platform in a competition and could play any of the markets starting with a pretend £1m but trading on their actual real time screens. I made £550k in a day with put and call options as you describe and know it's deceptively easy to bet so that you lose less than you win. It's also as clear as day that without volatility you are treading water. The traders play a percentage game, they profit from thousands of mathematically calculated trades between correlated assets where one is mis-priced for a nano second. They are not calling the market and they don't try, they let the punters do that. If markets are only moving one way rather than up and down, your strategy doesn't work.

    The reality is unless you are not human you will let your instincts, rather than the odds, dictate your moves and consistently calling the market in the wrong direction will wipe you out. You have yet to buy low and find it was actually the high.

    The market doing nothing is fine by me. My calls don't get called and my puts don't get put, but I can still easily generate that 1% per week, and have been, (despite the VIX being at the 10-12 low level ) on a low risk ETF stock.
    I managed to ride the 20% drop in the NASDAQ by only ever investing a maximum 50% of available funds, leaving plenty to sell more cash secured puts on the decline. That 20% decline was more like 10% to me, taking into account the Premiums I had generated during the sell off. I was then in a strong position to sell out of the money calls on the way back up.
    Along the way, I have suffered some major losses on individual stocks of 50% or more (back in the days when I didn't set limits), hence the reason I have now moved almost exclusively to ETF stocks and I have lowered my target from 3-4% per month to 2-3%. The result has been more consistent, less volatile returns. I always ensured that no one stock constituted more than 10% of my portfolio, but using ETFs has greatly increased that diversification and further reduced risk.
    I try to prevent my human instincts by setting limits as I soon as I place trades, even to buy back my option at 10 or 20% of the price received depending on the time elapsed, giving me the option to roll down to a lower strike, or sell the stock.
    So I guess we'll see how I cope with a 50% sell off, but I figure I can make at least 25% by selling options over the year, so should be able to manage the other 25% ok provided I keep some cash in reserve to sell puts on the way down.

  • "With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock. "

    The risk that you give no weight to is market downturn - "this income that offsets any potential market downturn". You will profit if this risk does not materialised and you have clearly profited, but at some time markets will shift and an adjusted strategy is needed.

    We were given access to the Man trading platform in a competition and could play any of the markets starting with a pretend £1m but trading on their actual real time screens. I made £550k in a day with put and call options as you describe and know it's deceptively easy to bet so that you lose less than you win. It's also as clear as day that without volatility you are treading water. The traders play a percentage game, they profit from thousands of mathematically calculated trades between correlated assets where one is mis-priced for a nano second. They are not calling the market and they don't try, they let the punters do that. If markets are only moving one way rather than up and down, your strategy doesn't work.

    The reality is unless you are not human you will let your instincts, rather than the odds, dictate your moves and consistently calling the market in the wrong direction will wipe you out. You have yet to buy low and find it was actually the high.

    The market doing nothing is fine by me. My calls don't get called and my puts don't get put, but I can still easily generate that 1% per week, and have been, (despite the VIX being at the 10-12 low level ) on a low risk ETF stock.
    I managed to ride the 20% drop in the NASDAQ by only ever investing a maximum 50% of available funds, leaving plenty to sell more cash secured puts on the decline. That 20% decline was more like 10% to me, taking into account the Premiums I had generated during the sell off. I was then in a strong position to sell out of the money calls on the way back up.
    Along the way, I have suffered some major losses on individual stocks of 50% or more (back in the days when I didn't set limits), hence the reason I have now moved almost exclusively to ETF stocks and I have lowered my target from 3-4% per month to 2-3%. The result has been more consistent, less volatile returns. I always ensured that no one stock constituted more than 10% of my portfolio, but using ETFs has greatly increased that diversification and further reduced risk.
    I try to prevent my human instincts by setting limits as I soon as I place trades, even to buy back my option at 10 or 20% of the price received depending on the time elapsed, giving me the option to roll down to a lower strike, or sell the stock.
    So I guess we'll see how I cope with a 50% sell off, but I figure I can make at least 25% by selling options over the year, so should be able to manage the other 25% ok provided I keep some cash in reserve to sell puts on the way down.

    I know nothing about options but like you have been trading ETFs. That spread is much safer than trading individual stocks. I would need full training before entering the option market. I'm still learning about trading in general and this week several of my stop losses kicked in. That's fine; cash can be better in a volatile market.
  • "With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock. "

    The risk that you give no weight to is market downturn - "this income that offsets any potential market downturn". You will profit if this risk does not materialised and you have clearly profited, but at some time markets will shift and an adjusted strategy is needed.

    We were given access to the Man trading platform in a competition and could play any of the markets starting with a pretend £1m but trading on their actual real time screens. I made £550k in a day with put and call options as you describe and know it's deceptively easy to bet so that you lose less than you win. It's also as clear as day that without volatility you are treading water. The traders play a percentage game, they profit from thousands of mathematically calculated trades between correlated assets where one is mis-priced for a nano second. They are not calling the market and they don't try, they let the punters do that. If markets are only moving one way rather than up and down, your strategy doesn't work.

    The reality is unless you are not human you will let your instincts, rather than the odds, dictate your moves and consistently calling the market in the wrong direction will wipe you out. You have yet to buy low and find it was actually the high.

    The market doing nothing is fine by me. My calls don't get called and my puts don't get put, but I can still easily generate that 1% per week, and have been, (despite the VIX being at the 10-12 low level ) on a low risk ETF stock.
    I managed to ride the 20% drop in the NASDAQ by only ever investing a maximum 50% of available funds, leaving plenty to sell more cash secured puts on the decline. That 20% decline was more like 10% to me, taking into account the Premiums I had generated during the sell off. I was then in a strong position to sell out of the money calls on the way back up.
    Along the way, I have suffered some major losses on individual stocks of 50% or more (back in the days when I didn't set limits), hence the reason I have now moved almost exclusively to ETF stocks and I have lowered my target from 3-4% per month to 2-3%. The result has been more consistent, less volatile returns. I always ensured that no one stock constituted more than 10% of my portfolio, but using ETFs has greatly increased that diversification and further reduced risk.
    I try to prevent my human instincts by setting limits as I soon as I place trades, even to buy back my option at 10 or 20% of the price received depending on the time elapsed, giving me the option to roll down to a lower strike, or sell the stock.
    So I guess we'll see how I cope with a 50% sell off, but I figure I can make at least 25% by selling options over the year, so should be able to manage the other 25% ok provided I keep some cash in reserve to sell puts on the way down.

    I know nothing about options but like you have been trading ETFs. That spread is much safer than trading individual stocks. I would need full training before entering the option market. I'm still learning about trading in general and this week several of my stop losses kicked in. That's fine; cash can be better in a volatile market.
    Neither did I. Took me about 6 months, a few books, lots of online videos and a period of paper trading. It all seems to fall into place once you've been doing it for a while. But you never stop learning, adapting and refining until you reach a system that suits you. Stop losses are a pain as so often you find you sold out at the bottom, but with options, you can use that cash straight away to generate more income and recoup some of your loss. Try to keep your shares working for you. Happy to help with some pointers when your'e ready to start.
  • "With this strategy, you are buying more stock as it drops, but selling as it moves higher (buy low, sell high) whilst generating a decent income from selling the options. It's the consistent generation of this income that offsets any potential market downturn, when you inevitably end up holding more stock. "

    The risk that you give no weight to is market downturn - "this income that offsets any potential market downturn". You will profit if this risk does not materialised and you have clearly profited, but at some time markets will shift and an adjusted strategy is needed.

    We were given access to the Man trading platform in a competition and could play any of the markets starting with a pretend £1m but trading on their actual real time screens. I made £550k in a day with put and call options as you describe and know it's deceptively easy to bet so that you lose less than you win. It's also as clear as day that without volatility you are treading water. The traders play a percentage game, they profit from thousands of mathematically calculated trades between correlated assets where one is mis-priced for a nano second. They are not calling the market and they don't try, they let the punters do that. If markets are only moving one way rather than up and down, your strategy doesn't work.

    The reality is unless you are not human you will let your instincts, rather than the odds, dictate your moves and consistently calling the market in the wrong direction will wipe you out. You have yet to buy low and find it was actually the high.

    The market doing nothing is fine by me. My calls don't get called and my puts don't get put, but I can still easily generate that 1% per week, and have been, (despite the VIX being at the 10-12 low level ) on a low risk ETF stock.
    I managed to ride the 20% drop in the NASDAQ by only ever investing a maximum 50% of available funds, leaving plenty to sell more cash secured puts on the decline. That 20% decline was more like 10% to me, taking into account the Premiums I had generated during the sell off. I was then in a strong position to sell out of the money calls on the way back up.
    Along the way, I have suffered some major losses on individual stocks of 50% or more (back in the days when I didn't set limits), hence the reason I have now moved almost exclusively to ETF stocks and I have lowered my target from 3-4% per month to 2-3%. The result has been more consistent, less volatile returns. I always ensured that no one stock constituted more than 10% of my portfolio, but using ETFs has greatly increased that diversification and further reduced risk.
    I try to prevent my human instincts by setting limits as I soon as I place trades, even to buy back my option at 10 or 20% of the price received depending on the time elapsed, giving me the option to roll down to a lower strike, or sell the stock.
    So I guess we'll see how I cope with a 50% sell off, but I figure I can make at least 25% by selling options over the year, so should be able to manage the other 25% ok provided I keep some cash in reserve to sell puts on the way down.

    I know nothing about options but like you have been trading ETFs. That spread is much safer than trading individual stocks. I would need full training before entering the option market. I'm still learning about trading in general and this week several of my stop losses kicked in. That's fine; cash can be better in a volatile market.
    Neither did I. Took me about 6 months, a few books, lots of online videos and a period of paper trading. It all seems to fall into place once you've been doing it for a while. But you never stop learning, adapting and refining until you reach a system that suits you. Stop losses are a pain as so often you find you sold out at the bottom, but with options, you can use that cash straight away to generate more income and recoup some of your loss. Try to keep your shares working for you. Happy to help with some pointers when your'e ready to start.
    Thanks. I generally only put in a stop loss after I've made a few percentage points in order to protect myself against a market fall, so I don't sell at the bottom. This system proved a bit of a disaster on Trump election day when the market fell, I sold half my holdings, and by the end of the day the market was sky high again. But generally this has worked for me.

    I will look into options but, as you suggested, won't consider playing the markets until I am totally au fait with the workings. My trading company (Interactive's rivals, Saxobank) does have a facility.
  • I know very little about markets and all that jazz, but my cheques from BT seem to be growing while the company appears to be struggling, I just don't get it. Confused addick I am.
  • It would appear that the topic of Bitcoins seems to have hit the headlines recently due to increased value.
    Anyone into these?
    If so, any advice appreciated.
  • I know very little about markets and all that jazz, but my cheques from BT seem to be growing while the company appears to be struggling, I just don't get it. Confused addick I am.

    Companies very often increase the dividend year on year. A lot of (older) people buy shares for the dividend (income) and in these days of low interest rates investors are reliant on dividend income more & more. The size of the dividend sometimes doesn't bear any resemblance on how the company is doing - it may be a way of keeping the investors with them if the share price isn't going up.

    This was a big reason why people invested in large FTSE100 companies in the 1960's & 70's. It wasn't generally to make money, but to receive a steady (and hopefully) a growing income.

    Whilst I was at Hill Samuel in the late 80's (the Investment firm, not the Jeweller) they designed an "income" product by combining 3 income funds that had quarterly dividend pay-outs, so that the investor would get a payment every month. It was very successful & one reason why Hill Samuel was bought by (bank of Indochina ? ) and then by TSB.
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