RD is the only creditor and if he wants his money back he only needs to ensure the club does not owe any money to creditors and he can put the company into voluntary liquidation. He pays off the Staprix loan personally then sells all the club assets, pays off any special share classes and trousers the balance.
Administration would only happen if RD pulls the plug on new loans to cover losses so the club becomes insolvent and unable to pay wages etc, then as a creditor applies for Administration and the club gets sold to the highest bidder. RD is senile but not a complete lunatic.
My understanding is that he still has to pay the £7m to the former directors first, because it is a first legal charge on the assets (hence he is not the only creditor).
He could sell the ground to another one of his companies in voluntary liquidation, would be much more difficult under administration as the administrators step in to try and get the best value for the existing creditors.
If it goes down the "selling the assets " route we would need Greenwich Council to slap a development clause on The Valley designating it as a green field / sports site ( not sure of the correct term ). I think that they did this back in the nineties and that forced Gliksten to give up and negotiate a deal with the club.
RD is the only creditor and if he wants his money back he only needs to ensure the club does not owe any money to creditors and he can put the company into voluntary liquidation. He pays off the Staprix loan personally then sells all the club assets, pays off any special share classes and trousers the balance.
Administration would only happen if RD pulls the plug on new loans to cover losses so the club becomes insolvent and unable to pay wages etc, then as a creditor applies for Administration and the club gets sold to the highest bidder. RD is senile but not a complete lunatic.
If I've interpreted this incorrectly please say. I'm assuming the first option is what he would go for.
As I understand it from your post, RD would pay off the £7m owed to former directors (creditors) if he wanted to put the company into voluntary liquidation. He would then have to pay off the Staprix loan which I understand is his money anyway??? At which point he can sell any assets, pay off any special share classes and recoup whatever the assets bring which may or may not leave him out of pocket versus what he's loaned/put in so far
To be clear this isn't me questioning the validity of what you are saying, just me trying to get my head around it in laymans
He could sell the ground to another one of his companies in voluntary liquidation, would be much more difficult under administration as the administrators step in to try and get the best value for the existing creditors.
If he sells the ground to another company (even one that he owns) he has to pay the former directors £7m. He's also bound to give six months' notice under the ACV.
If Staprix demands repayment of the debt from CAFC then the club goes into Administration and new owners will purchase business for a song.
Therefore the loan is the softest of soft debt and the interest is the equivalent of a dividend if RD had injected as equity and not debt.
All in all it's irrelevant as we are skint and totally reliant on the monthly injection from Belgium!
But if the club goes onto Administration Douchbag will only get a small percentage of what he is owed. Better to sell the club at a realistic price. Having said that we are talking about a deluded fool
Absolutely so that's why it is debt that is as soft as shite and taking away the personalities the club's financial situation is far better than so many other basket cases that reside in the modern day EFL.
If the club goes into administration owing RD money and there is not an agreement with the creditors for a percentage of the debt to be written off the club gets liquidated and all the assets are sold (Sparrows Lane and The Valley) and the money raised from that is given to RD.
I can't speak for everyone else but I think that is an outrageously big gamble to take. This also assumes that the club changes hands for £0 otherwise what ever the price is is gone the second the club goes into administration.
The debt needs to be renegotiated when the sale takes place.
I think the debt will be about the same as since the last set of figures we have sold Cousins, Pope, Gudmunsson, Lookman and Fox. Even KM couldn't have wasted that, c. £15m in nine months.
No. All these players were sold in 2016/17 - the accounts to be published are 15/16.
I would expect the sale of Cousins, Gudmundsson and Pope to be referenced as post-balance sheet events but they won't be in the annual accounts.
Also if the business is liquidated the first £7m goes to former directors. Their legal charge takes preference.
Firstly I was assuming that the loan would only be called in if he sold the club with it intact. In that event the new owners couldn't just go into administration to shaft him as he would have the right to force the business into liquidation. No new owners are allowed to take the assets and pay him a fraction of what he is owed.
The issue about the £7m would, presumably, also have to be settled and those creditors could agree to take a bath on their money or they could be responsible for putting the club into liquidation - I just think the former directors would be more inclined to help the club out than RD would be.
I also wasn't aware we were talking about the accounts for last season. The title of the bread is about the debt next quarter, not nine months ago.
However I do recognise that by completely misunderstanding what people were talking about my post looked like a load of old rubbish.
If Staprix demands repayment of the debt from CAFC then the club goes into Administration and new owners will purchase business for a song.
Therefore the loan is the softest of soft debt and the interest is the equivalent of a dividend if RD had injected as equity and not debt.
All in all it's irrelevant as we are skint and totally reliant on the monthly injection from Belgium!
But if the club goes onto Administration Douchbag will only get a small percentage of what he is owed. Better to sell the club at a realistic price. Having said that we are talking about a deluded fool
Absolutely so that's why it is debt that is as soft as shite and taking away the personalities the club's financial situation is far better than so many other basket cases that reside in the modern day EFL.
If the club goes into administration owing RD money and there is not an agreement with the creditors for a percentage of the debt to be written off the club gets liquidated and all the assets are sold (Sparrows Lane and The Valley) and the money raised from that is given to RD.
I can't speak for everyone else but I think that is an outrageously big gamble to take. This also assumes that the club changes hands for £0 otherwise what ever the price is is gone the second the club goes into administration.
The debt needs to be renegotiated when the sale takes place.
I think the debt will be about the same as since the last set of figures we have sold Cousins, Pope, Gudmunsson, Lookman and Fox. Even KM couldn't have wasted that, c. £15m in nine months.
No. All these players were sold in 2016/17 - the accounts to be published are 15/16.
I would expect the sale of Cousins, Gudmundsson and Pope to be referenced as post-balance sheet events but they won't be in the annual accounts.
Also if the business is liquidated the first £7m goes to former directors. Their legal charge takes preference.
Firstly I was assuming that the loan would only be called in if he sold the club with it intact. In that event the new owners couldn't just go into administration to shaft him as he would have the right to force the business into liquidation. No new owners are allowed to take the assets and pay him a fraction of what he is owed.
The issue about the £7m would, presumably, also have to be settled and those creditors could agree to take a bath on their money or they could be responsible for putting the club into liquidation - I just think the former directors would be more inclined to help the club out than RD would be.
I also wasn't aware we were talking about the accounts for last season. The title of the bread is about the debt next quarter, not nine months ago.
However I do recognise that by completely misunderstanding what people were talking about my post looked like a load of old rubbish.
I assume if any Staprix debt was to be carried over to a new owner it would be secured by a charge on the assets, much like the current £7m.
If Staprix demands repayment of the debt from CAFC then the club goes into Administration and new owners will purchase business for a song.
Therefore the loan is the softest of soft debt and the interest is the equivalent of a dividend if RD had injected as equity and not debt.
All in all it's irrelevant as we are skint and totally reliant on the monthly injection from Belgium!
But if the club goes onto Administration Douchbag will only get a small percentage of what he is owed. Better to sell the club at a realistic price. Having said that we are talking about a deluded fool
Absolutely so that's why it is debt that is as soft as shite and taking away the personalities the club's financial situation is far better than so many other basket cases that reside in the modern day EFL.
If the club goes into administration owing RD money and there is not an agreement with the creditors for a percentage of the debt to be written off the club gets liquidated and all the assets are sold (Sparrows Lane and The Valley) and the money raised from that is given to RD.
I can't speak for everyone else but I think that is an outrageously big gamble to take. This also assumes that the club changes hands for £0 otherwise what ever the price is is gone the second the club goes into administration.
The debt needs to be renegotiated when the sale takes place.
I think the debt will be about the same as since the last set of figures we have sold Cousins, Pope, Gudmunsson, Lookman and Fox. Even KM couldn't have wasted that, c. £15m in nine months.
No. All these players were sold in 2016/17 - the accounts to be published are 15/16.
I would expect the sale of Cousins, Gudmundsson and Pope to be referenced as post-balance sheet events but they won't be in the annual accounts.
Also if the business is liquidated the first £7m goes to former directors. Their legal charge takes preference.
Firstly I was assuming that the loan would only be called in if he sold the club with it intact. In that event the new owners couldn't just go into administration to shaft him as he would have the right to force the business into liquidation. No new owners are allowed to take the assets and pay him a fraction of what he is owed.
The issue about the £7m would, presumably, also have to be settled and those creditors could agree to take a bath on their money or they could be responsible for putting the club into liquidation - I just think the former directors would be more inclined to help the club out than RD would be.
I also wasn't aware we were talking about the accounts for last season. The title of the bread is about the debt next quarter, not nine months ago.
However I do recognise that by completely misunderstanding what people were talking about my post looked like a load of old rubbish.
I assume if any Staprix debt was to be carried over to a new owner it would be secured by a charge on the assets, much like the current £7m.
I agree.
Unless KM gets involved in the negotiations and then the new owners might be able to get her to waive the charge or maybe agree to make the loan interest only and interest free for the first five hundred years!
All the new buyers need to do is employ a football agent to negotiate for them. Probably walk away with KM's house and her first born as well.
If Staprix demands repayment of the debt from CAFC then the club goes into Administration and new owners will purchase business for a song.
Therefore the loan is the softest of soft debt and the interest is the equivalent of a dividend if RD had injected as equity and not debt.
All in all it's irrelevant as we are skint and totally reliant on the monthly injection from Belgium!
But if the club goes onto Administration Douchbag will only get a small percentage of what he is owed. Better to sell the club at a realistic price. Having said that we are talking about a deluded fool
Absolutely so that's why it is debt that is as soft as shite and taking away the personalities the club's financial situation is far better than so many other basket cases that reside in the modern day EFL.
If the club goes into administration owing RD money and there is not an agreement with the creditors for a percentage of the debt to be written off the club gets liquidated and all the assets are sold (Sparrows Lane and The Valley) and the money raised from that is given to RD.
I can't speak for everyone else but I think that is an outrageously big gamble to take. This also assumes that the club changes hands for £0 otherwise what ever the price is is gone the second the club goes into administration.
The debt needs to be renegotiated when the sale takes place.
I think the debt will be about the same as since the last set of figures we have sold Cousins, Pope, Gudmunsson, Lookman and Fox. Even KM couldn't have wasted that, c. £15m in nine months.
No. All these players were sold in 2016/17 - the accounts to be published are 15/16.
I would expect the sale of Cousins, Gudmundsson and Pope to be referenced as post-balance sheet events but they won't be in the annual accounts.
Also if the business is liquidated the first £7m goes to former directors. Their legal charge takes preference.
Firstly I was assuming that the loan would only be called in if he sold the club with it intact. In that event the new owners couldn't just go into administration to shaft him as he would have the right to force the business into liquidation. No new owners are allowed to take the assets and pay him a fraction of what he is owed.
The issue about the £7m would, presumably, also have to be settled and those creditors could agree to take a bath on their money or they could be responsible for putting the club into liquidation - I just think the former directors would be more inclined to help the club out than RD would be.
I also wasn't aware we were talking about the accounts for last season. The title of the bread is about the debt next quarter, not nine months ago.
However I do recognise that by completely misunderstanding what people were talking about my post looked like a load of old rubbish.
I assume if any Staprix debt was to be carried over to a new owner it would be secured by a charge on the assets, much like the current £7m.
I agree.
Unless KM gets involved in the negotiations and then the new owners might be able to get her to waive the charge or maybe agree to make the loan interest only and interest free for the first five hundred years!
All the new buyers need to do is employ a football agent to negotiate for them. Probably walk away with KM's house and her first born as well.
Naby Sarr's agent might have something to say about that.....
RD is the only creditor and if he wants his money back he only needs to ensure the club does not owe any money to creditors and he can put the company into voluntary liquidation. He pays off the Staprix loan personally then sells all the club assets, pays off any special share classes and trousers the balance.
Administration would only happen if RD pulls the plug on new loans to cover losses so the club becomes insolvent and unable to pay wages etc, then as a creditor applies for Administration and the club gets sold to the highest bidder. RD is senile but not a complete lunatic.
If I've interpreted this incorrectly please say. I'm assuming the first option is what he would go for.
As I understand it from your post, RD would pay off the £7m owed to former directors (creditors) if he wanted to put the company into voluntary liquidation. He would then have to pay off the Staprix loan which I understand is his money anyway??? At which point he can sell any assets, pay off any special share classes and recoup whatever the assets bring which may or may not leave him out of pocket versus what he's loaned/put in so far
To be clear this isn't me questioning the validity of what you are saying, just me trying to get my head around it in laymans
RD is the only creditor and if he wants his money back he only needs to ensure the club does not owe any money to creditors and he can put the company into voluntary liquidation. He pays off the Staprix loan personally then sells all the club assets, pays off any special share classes and trousers the balance.
Administration would only happen if RD pulls the plug on new loans to cover losses so the club becomes insolvent and unable to pay wages etc, then as a creditor applies for Administration and the club gets sold to the highest bidder. RD is senile but not a complete lunatic.
If I've interpreted this incorrectly please say. I'm assuming the first option is what he would go for.
As I understand it from your post, RD would pay off the £7m owed to former directors (creditors) if he wanted to put the company into voluntary liquidation. He would then have to pay off the Staprix loan which I understand is his money anyway??? At which point he can sell any assets, pay off any special share classes and recoup whatever the assets bring which may or may not leave him out of pocket versus what he's loaned/put in so far
To be clear this isn't me questioning the validity of what you are saying, just me trying to get my head around it in laymans
Yes, thats how I understand company law working.
So the big question is will someone buy the club from him for more than he can sell the assets for? If the answer is no then he might as well sell the 'franchise' of the league position and all the assets or he sells the club with little or no debt and no stadium and no training ground. If it was always his game pan to do this (and I'm not saying that it was) then the management of the club, it's desperate position and the apathy from most fans will remove much of the resistance to selling The Valley for housing development.
RD is the only creditor and if he wants his money back he only needs to ensure the club does not owe any money to creditors and he can put the company into voluntary liquidation. He pays off the Staprix loan personally then sells all the club assets, pays off any special share classes and trousers the balance.
Administration would only happen if RD pulls the plug on new loans to cover losses so the club becomes insolvent and unable to pay wages etc, then as a creditor applies for Administration and the club gets sold to the highest bidder. RD is senile but not a complete lunatic.
If I've interpreted this incorrectly please say. I'm assuming the first option is what he would go for.
As I understand it from your post, RD would pay off the £7m owed to former directors (creditors) if he wanted to put the company into voluntary liquidation. He would then have to pay off the Staprix loan which I understand is his money anyway??? At which point he can sell any assets, pay off any special share classes and recoup whatever the assets bring which may or may not leave him out of pocket versus what he's loaned/put in so far
To be clear this isn't me questioning the validity of what you are saying, just me trying to get my head around it in laymans
Yes, thats how I understand company law working.
So the big question is will someone buy the club from him for more than he can sell the assets for? If the answer is no then he might as well sell the 'franchise' of the league position and all the assets or he sells the club with little or no debt and no stadium and no training ground. If it was always his game pan to do this (and I'm not saying that it was) then the management of the club, it's desperate position and the apathy from most fans will remove much of the resistance to selling The Valley for housing development.
It's almost a genius plan!
But the club is worth more than it's fixed assets as the membership of the Football League has a value as does the "brand".
He can try and sell the Valley and Sparrows Lane but neither have planning permission and while someone might get that permission in time we only have to look to Lewisham and Millwall, not to mention the Valley Party, to see how problematic that would be.
Moving the club out of area won't be as easy as it once was for MK Dons and which local council will take a football club know locals may resist the traffic and noise even four figure gates would bring.
Not that logic or business sense in football are strong points for Duchatelet.
Agreed Henners, far too many imponderables for the Douchbag if he attempts to asset strip meaning his best chance of cutting his losses is to sell as a going concern imo fwiiw.
Agreed Henners, far too many imponderables for the Douchbag if he attempts to asset strip meaning his best chance of cutting his losses is to sell as a going concern imo fwiiw.
They were lodged on 4th March last year, although they had actually been signed of at the end of November the year before.
Perhaps they're leaving as late as possible this year so that the Getting to know the network guys can't add it in as a late addition the final podcast due on the same day!
Still nothing at Companies House, as far as I can see. One week to go...
I think there's a time lag between the date they are lodged and the date their are processed and published, which I would guess is longer at this time of year. So it's not necessarily the case we will see them by March 31st, even if they have been submitted.
Still nothing at Companies House, as far as I can see. One week to go...
I think there's a time lag between the date they are lodged and the date their are processed and published, which I would guess is longer at this time of year. So it's not necessarily the case we will see them by March 31st, even if they have been submitted.
Do you think that, if there is a possible sale of the club going on behind the scenes, there might be any logical reason why it might cause a delay to submission of the accounts? I'm not suggesting it might be because they're trying to hide bad results.
Still nothing at Companies House, as far as I can see. One week to go...
I think there's a time lag between the date they are lodged and the date their are processed and published, which I would guess is longer at this time of year. So it's not necessarily the case we will see them by March 31st, even if they have been submitted.
Do you think that, if there is a possible sale of the club going on behind the scenes, there might be any logical reason why it might cause a delay to submission of the accounts? I'm not suggesting it might be because they're trying to hide bad results.
Only to the extent that the likely bad publicity from the debt figure might be overtaken by events.
Comments
"Uncle Roland has spent £50m but still the customers are ungrateful. Why do they protest when el Presidente is so generous and the future so bright?"
As I understand it from your post, RD would pay off the £7m owed to former directors (creditors) if he wanted to put the company into voluntary liquidation. He would then have to pay off the Staprix loan which I understand is his money anyway??? At which point he can sell any assets, pay off any special share classes and recoup whatever the assets bring which may or may not leave him out of pocket versus what he's loaned/put in so far
To be clear this isn't me questioning the validity of what you are saying, just me trying to get my head around it in laymans
The issue about the £7m would, presumably, also have to be settled and those creditors could agree to take a bath on their money or they could be responsible for putting the club into liquidation - I just think the former directors would be more inclined to help the club out than RD would be.
I also wasn't aware we were talking about the accounts for last season. The title of the bread is about the debt next quarter, not nine months ago.
However I do recognise that by completely misunderstanding what people were talking about my post looked like a load of old rubbish.
Unless KM gets involved in the negotiations and then the new owners might be able to get her to waive the charge or maybe agree to make the loan interest only and interest free for the first five hundred years!
All the new buyers need to do is employ a football agent to negotiate for them. Probably walk away with KM's house and her first born as well.
It's almost a genius plan!
He can try and sell the Valley and Sparrows Lane but neither have planning permission and while someone might get that permission in time we only have to look to Lewisham and Millwall, not to mention the Valley Party, to see how problematic that would be.
Moving the club out of area won't be as easy as it once was for MK Dons and which local council will take a football club know locals may resist the traffic and noise even four figure gates would bring.
Not that logic or business sense in football are strong points for Duchatelet.
I wonder if this is what the lawyer in the room was? - maybe it was just an accountant in the cupboard - being creative.
Perhaps they're leaving as late as possible this year so that the Getting to know the network guys can't add it in as a late addition the final podcast due on the same day!