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Berlin lorry crash at xmas markets

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  • Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.
  • colthe3rd said:

    Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.

    I take it that you're referring to me Candypants, why am I a bigot?
  • colthe3rd said:

    Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.

    I take it that you're referring to me Candypants, why am I a bigot?
    Why do you call me an Arsenal fan?
  • edited December 2016
    The Tunisian in his early 20's is thought to be armed & dangerous. His ID card was found in the cab of the lorry. It is thought that he has a temporary residence permit, after applying for residency in April.
  • The Tunisian in his early 20's is thought to be armed & dangerous. His ID card was found in the cab of the lorry. It is thought that he has a temporary residence permit, after applying for residency in April.

    If true, Merkel is definitely to blame in part, as she was warned people needed to be properly vetted.
    The UK did the right thing by taking in refugees from camps, that were checked out. Although maybe not in large enough numbers.

    It bears comparison to releasing people, that are a danger to the public, such as letting out dangerous people from prisons or mental health units, when they were not fit to be released.

    Reports are saying he moved to Italy from Tunisia in 2012 and to Germany in 2015. In what way has this got anything to do with the refugees Germany have been taking in from Syria and the surrounding countries?
  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.

    I take it that you're referring to me Candypants, why am I a bigot?
    Why do you call me an Arsenal fan?
    Come on, scan back through the whole thread once more and tell me why I'm a bigot
  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.

    I take it that you're referring to me Candypants, why am I a bigot?
    Why do you call me an Arsenal fan?
    Come on, scan back through the whole thread once more and tell me why I'm a bigot
    You've been dodging my questions for long enough so I'll take the same stance pal.
  • edited December 2016
    colthe3rd said:

    The Tunisian in his early 20's is thought to be armed & dangerous. His ID card was found in the cab of the lorry. It is thought that he has a temporary residence permit, after applying for residency in April.

    If true, Merkel is definitely to blame in part, as she was warned people needed to be properly vetted.
    The UK did the right thing by taking in refugees from camps, that were checked out. Although maybe not in large enough numbers.

    It bears comparison to releasing people, that are a danger to the public, such as letting out dangerous people from prisons or mental health units, when they were not fit to be released.

    Reports are saying he moved to Italy from Tunisia in 2012 and to Germany in 2015. In what way has this got anything to do with the refugees Germany have been taking in from Syria and the surrounding countries?
    He was granted Asylum - i.e under the "1951 Refugee Convention on the Status of Refugees" - in 2015 when Germany began accepting refugees. It's disingenuous to suggest he simply moved from Italy to Germany. So @Covered End is pretty much correct.
    Anis A is reported to have travelled to Italy in 2012 and then on to Germany in 2015 where he applied for asylum and was granted temporary leave to stay in April of this year.
    Source: The BBC
  • LuckyReds said:

    colthe3rd said:

    The Tunisian in his early 20's is thought to be armed & dangerous. His ID card was found in the cab of the lorry. It is thought that he has a temporary residence permit, after applying for residency in April.

    If true, Merkel is definitely to blame in part, as she was warned people needed to be properly vetted.
    The UK did the right thing by taking in refugees from camps, that were checked out. Although maybe not in large enough numbers.

    It bears comparison to releasing people, that are a danger to the public, such as letting out dangerous people from prisons or mental health units, when they were not fit to be released.

    Reports are saying he moved to Italy from Tunisia in 2012 and to Germany in 2015. In what way has this got anything to do with the refugees Germany have been taking in from Syria and the surrounding countries?
    He was granted Asylum - i.e under the "1951 Refugee Convention on the Status of Refugees" - in 2015 when Germany began accepting refugees. It's disingenuous to suggest he simply moved from Italy to Germany.
    Anis A is reported to have travelled to Italy in 2012 and then on to Germany in 2015 where he applied for asylum and was granted temporary leave to stay in April of this year.
    Source: The BBC

    So he wasn't granted asylum. Thanks.
  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.

    I take it that you're referring to me Candypants, why am I a bigot?
    Why do you call me an Arsenal fan?
    Come on, scan back through the whole thread once more and tell me why I'm a bigot
    You've been dodging my questions for long enough so I'll take the same stance pal.
    Coz you wanted to chew my nose off on the couple of occasions that I have suggested Wenger is a bit of a si, but since then, it has only been said in jest.

    Now, why am I a bigot?
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  • Anis Amri's application for asylum was rejected in June this year, but he could not be deported because he didn't possess correct papers. NRW interior minister says suspect couldn't be deported because Tunisia initially denied he was Tunisian citizen. Required docs arrived... today.
  • colthe3rd said:

    The Tunisian in his early 20's is thought to be armed & dangerous. His ID card was found in the cab of the lorry. It is thought that he has a temporary residence permit, after applying for residency in April.

    If true, Merkel is definitely to blame in part, as she was warned people needed to be properly vetted.
    The UK did the right thing by taking in refugees from camps, that were checked out. Although maybe not in large enough numbers.

    It bears comparison to releasing people, that are a danger to the public, such as letting out dangerous people from prisons or mental health units, when they were not fit to be released.

    Reports are saying he moved to Italy from Tunisia in 2012 and to Germany in 2015. In what way has this got anything to do with the refugees Germany have been taking in from Syria and the surrounding countries?
    Fair enough, in which case I retract that.
  • edited December 2016
    colthe3rd said:



    So he wasn't granted asylum. Thanks.

    It's not clear. Because technically the way Germany processes Asylum Seekers is by providing them temporary (3 year) residence permits. Given the BBC claim he was granted "temporary leave to stay", it would appear this may have been the case.

    Even if this is not the case, and to be fair it does appear that failed asylum seekers are given temporary leave to stay.. that's arguably more damning.
  • colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    colthe3rd said:

    Bigot having a stormer in this thread, keep it going lad.

    I take it that you're referring to me Candypants, why am I a bigot?
    Why do you call me an Arsenal fan?
    Come on, scan back through the whole thread once more and tell me why I'm a bigot
    You've been dodging my questions for long enough so I'll take the same stance pal.
    Coz you wanted to chew my nose off on the couple of occasions that I have suggested Wenger is a bit of a si, but since then, it has only been said in jest.

    Now, why am I a bigot?
    Ah you must be confusing me with someone else, only thing I can think of.
  • It is not yet established that the suspect was part of the attack. We in North Rhine-Westphalia have been supporting the state prosecutor in his aim of finding and detaining suspects. We must not endanger the action to detain the suspect, so we can’t give you any information.

    I can give the following information about the suspect: Since February 2016 he has been living in Berlin. He was briefly in North Rhine-Westphalia before that. The security services have exchanged information regarding him in November. The federal police issued a warning that he was posing a danger.

    In June 2016 his asylum application was rejected. He could not be deported because he did not have any valid identity papers. Tunisia initially denied that he was a citizen on Tunisia. His identity papers arrived today
  • It sounds as if the German authorities have massively fucked up here. Apparently he had been identified as a danger and was under surveillance. He was refused asylum yet allowed to stay temporarily. If this is the guy who did it they will have serious questions to answer.
  • edited December 2016

    It is not yet established that the suspect was part of the attack. We in North Rhine-Westphalia have been supporting the state prosecutor in his aim of finding and detaining suspects. We must not endanger the action to detain the suspect, so we can’t give you any information.

    I can give the following information about the suspect: Since February 2016 he has been living in Berlin. He was briefly in North Rhine-Westphalia before that. The security services have exchanged information regarding him in November. The federal police issued a warning that he was posing a danger.

    In June 2016 his asylum application was rejected. He could not be deported because he did not have any valid identity papers. Tunisia initially denied that he was a citizen on Tunisia. His identity papers arrived today

    Eh, Weird. BBC are reporting that Germany had granted him temporary leave to stay, which apparently is common practice amongst rejected asylum claims. (Which I still think is quite weird.) No mentions of deportation attempts.

    Shows a better level of vetting, but if he was determined to be a threat then you would've thought he would've been handled differently.
  • edited December 2016
    LuckyReds said:

    It is not yet established that the suspect was part of the attack. We in North Rhine-Westphalia have been supporting the state prosecutor in his aim of finding and detaining suspects. We must not endanger the action to detain the suspect, so we can’t give you any information.

    I can give the following information about the suspect: Since February 2016 he has been living in Berlin. He was briefly in North Rhine-Westphalia before that. The security services have exchanged information regarding him in November. The federal police issued a warning that he was posing a danger.

    In June 2016 his asylum application was rejected. He could not be deported because he did not have any valid identity papers. Tunisia initially denied that he was a citizen on Tunisia. His identity papers arrived today

    Eh, Weird. BBC are reporting that Germany had granted him temporary leave to stay, which apparently is common practice amongst rejected asylum claims. (Which I still think is quite weird.) No mentions of deportation attempts.

    Shows a better level of vetting, but if he was determined to be a threat then you would've thought he would've been handled differently.
    In fairness to the Germans, every country struggles to deal quickly and efficiently with failed asylum seekers.

    Often because they have destroyed documents in an effort to make it difficult for authorities to find out the truth, but also because, even where the specifics if the application are proved to be invalid, their country of origin may either be unsafe or run governed by regimes with which it is difficult to cooperate.

    The outcome of this is that, in many cases, those with legitimate claims are tarred with the same brush, and denied the support and refuge to which they are entitled.
  • Horrible things to happen! RIP to all the victims and thoughts with there families
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  • If the man driving the vehicle into a crowd of people was killed at that time or ideally just before he killed anyone else I don't think too many people would be upset.

    If a man who may or may not be the man driving the vehicle is then killed, and then it turns out it was mistaken identity and the man just looked a bit 'muslim', that would be bad.

  • If the man driving the vehicle into a crowd of people was killed at that time or ideally just before he killed anyone else I don't think too many people would be upset.

    If a man who may or may not be the man driving the vehicle is then killed, and then it turns out it was mistaken identity and the man just looked a bit 'muslim', that would be bad.

    Goes without saying, surely
  • If the man driving the vehicle into a crowd of people was killed at that time or ideally just before he killed anyone else I don't think too many people would be upset.

    If a man who may or may not be the man driving the vehicle is then killed, and then it turns out it was mistaken identity and the man just looked a bit 'muslim', that would be bad.

    image
  • colthe3rd said:

    It sounds as if the German authorities have massively fucked up here. Apparently he had been identified as a danger and was under surveillance. He was refused asylum yet allowed to stay temporarily. If this is the guy who did it they will have serious questions to answer.

    I don't follow these procedures closely but I understand this is how the UK operates too. Failed applicants can appeal but are not detained, told to present themselves at a later date to find out the outcome of their appeal. A large percentage fail to make that date, simply disappearing.
  • Sadly will keep happening until Politicians admit the craziness of their naive policies.
  • colthe3rd said:

    It sounds as if the German authorities have massively fucked up here. Apparently he had been identified as a danger and was under surveillance. He was refused asylum yet allowed to stay temporarily. If this is the guy who did it they will have serious questions to answer.

    I don't follow these procedures closely but I understand this is how the UK operates too. Failed applicants can appeal but are not detained, told to present themselves at a later date to find out the outcome of their appeal. A large percentage fail to make that date, simply disappearing.
    "A large percentage"? Do you know what proportion disappear? (I don't).
  • Breaking News is that due to a ID card found at the scene police are looking for a Tunisian man.

    It's fortunate that you are not judge, jury and executioner Ibborg

    Oh yeah, because it's definitely the bloke who owns the ID card ain't it

    Other reports say that they're looking to 2 people
    Nope, you're right, it must be the bloke they released. No DNA, no CCTV, but Ibborg reckons it's him.

    Remind me to never play you in a game of cluedo.
    Oh sorry, I missed the bit where they found the DNA and CCTV etc of the bloke on the ID card
    Well they haven't caught him yet.... let's wait and see though.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/22/police-raid-flats-in-search-for-berlin-truck-attack-suspect-anis-amri
  • How is a violent criminal allowed to enter an EU country, then when refused asylum, enter ANOTHER EU country, refused asylum again....and not be detained until they're deported??!!! I find it absolutely mental.
    Possibly failed asylum seekers are not detained because in Italy and, much more so, in Germany, the idea of detention camps may not be hugely popular for various historical reasons.

    In the individual case, however, it is very difficult to identify an individual with a criminal background in a third country, if that country is slow in providing paperwork, and the individual gives a false name. I know it's hard to believe that a violent criminal could be so dishonest.
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