Muhammad Ali - The man

StewieGriffinSE7

I'm a huge boxing fan and have always loved the heavyweights. I have nothing but admiration for Ali the fighter, and the man who fought Cleveland Williams in my opinion was among the greatest heavyweights of all time. As a man however, I never took to Ali and I know it was a different era but I've always been somewhat surprised by the unconditional global warmth toward him. I saw that Piers Morgan touched on this and upset a few people this morning - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/muhammad-ali-said-far-more-racist-things-than-donald-trump-says-piers-morgan-a7066521.html

https://youtu.be/_HBnc8YNaaQ

I struggle to imagine the backlash if say a Tyson Fury or a Carl Frampton spoke in this manner. I admittedly don't know if Ali's views changed or mellowed in his later years?

Leuth

Piers Morgan is a professional troll and a c*nt of the first order. End of story.

Friend Or Defoe

He did get away with a lot. Calling Joe Fraser a gorilla amongst other things was appalling. Trump and Morgan are both worse people by some distance.

Granpa

Strangely my respect for Ali was more for the man than the boxer. I was surprised at how many fights he lost,for me Rocky Marciano was the greatest fighter. Ali with his huge personality made great strides against racism, and entertained us in the process. RIP

RodneyCharltonTrotta

Leuth said:

Piers Morgan is a professional troll and a cunt of the first order..

Agree with this 100%....however...I didn't comment on the RIP thread as wouldn't have been respectful to an unbelievably great man who stood up to the establishment in a very difficult time and climate. He was a true great both in and out of the ring that goes without saying.

However one thing that has always bothered me is his treatment of Frazier. It went beyond the pantomime of selling fights and was pretty disgusting at times.

Ali's comments deeply hurt and affected Frazier, a man of much less articulate and sophisticated means. I think it was bullying and spite. Frazier had literally come from the cotton farming background and to be labelled "Uncle Tom" etc by the sharp talking, intellectual Ali was bang out of order. Took a huge shine from his legacy away for me and has been neatly glossed over in recent days. Perhaps he atoned for it in later years but I think the pain and damage he caused Frazier stayed with Smokin' Joe til he passed and that was truly sad.

I don't think he was very nice to his wife either.

Still he was still a remarkable great man in history and someone whom I am a big fan. RIP.

happyvalley

Leuth said:

Piers Morgan is a professional troll and a cunt of the first order. End of story.

I wonder if he will be mourned as much as Ali when he's snuffed it.

Halix

happyvalley said:

Leuth said:

Piers Morgan is a professional troll and a cunt of the first order. End of story.

I wonder if he will be mourned as much as Ali when he's snuffed it.

there will probably be a huge attendance, mostly to dance on his grave.

DRAddick

No question a fantastic athlete and boxer and great historical figure and probably overall a half decent bloke (eventually). But I always wondered why Ali's disrespectful behaviour towards others and parts of his earlier "beliefs" are a taboo subject just brushed off as 'character'. They're accepted and ignored yet other fighters, and people in the public eye in general, get public and media outcrys at anything and everything they do or say.
Certain people are put on such a high pedestal, and sometimes factoring in certain demographic influences, any negative trait gets ignored or people are too scared to mention it.

thenewbie

By modern standards and to modern tastes probably some of what Ali said crosses certain lines. But when he said them he was in a country where he was a second rate citizen at a time when racists were more likely to be the norm than the exception. I don't think any of us wouldn't be angry and a little bitter if we were in the same position he was. The press lapped it up also, it was a bit of a self-perpetuating circle: he'd say something controversial, there would be a publicity storm, his fame rose. So next time, he has to try and one-up his last comments.

Not to mention, he famously renounced his more inflammatory views and comments and moved to a more conciliatory and moderate outlook later in life. Piers Morgan is, always was and probably always will be an utter ****.

bobmunro

DRAddick said:

No question a fantastic athlete and boxer and great historical figure and probably overall a half decent bloke (eventually). But I always wondered why Ali's disrespectful behaviour towards others and parts of his earlier "beliefs" are a taboo subject just brushed off as 'character'. They're accepted and ignored yet other fighters, and people in the public eye in general, get public and media outcrys at anything and everything they do or say.
Certain people are put on such a high pedestal, and sometimes factoring in certain demographic influences, any negative trait gets ignored or people are too scared to mention it.

I don't think his more inflammatory comments are ignored at all - they are well documented and very many books have been written about Ali, warts and all.

I would not for a second defend Ali's comments about Frazier and others and later in life he regretted them, as he did some of his more extreme views on segregation rather than integration, which he backtracked on. I believe that the situation Ali found himself in, along with most African Americans, is perhaps not best summed up by describing them as 'certain demographic influences'. He, along with Martin Luther King Jnr and Bobby Kennedy, were instrumental in the civil rights movement, bringing about change - that has still a way to go.

As a man he was flawed, as we all are flawed, but balancing the negatives and positives he comes out massively in positive credit.

And I haven't once mentioned how he was also the greatest heavyweight of all time!!

Kap10

bobmunro said:

DRAddick said:

No question a fantastic athlete and boxer and great historical figure and probably overall a half decent bloke (eventually). But I always wondered why Ali's disrespectful behaviour towards others and parts of his earlier "beliefs" are a taboo subject just brushed off as 'character'. They're accepted and ignored yet other fighters, and people in the public eye in general, get public and media outcrys at anything and everything they do or say.
Certain people are put on such a high pedestal, and sometimes factoring in certain demographic influences, any negative trait gets ignored or people are too scared to mention it.

I don't think his more inflammatory comments are ignored at all - they are well documented and very many books have been written about Ali, warts and all.

I would not for a second defend Ali's comments about Frazier and others and later in life he regretted them, as he did some of his more extreme views on segregation rather than integration, which he backtracked on. I believe that the situation Ali found himself in, along with most African Americans, is perhaps not best summed up by describing them as 'certain demographic influences'. He, along with Martin Luther King Jnr and Bobby Kennedy, were instrumental in the civil rights movement, bringing about change - that has still a way to go.

As a man he was flawed, as we all are flawed, but balancing the negatives and positives he comes out massively in positive credit.

And I haven't once mentioned how he was also the greatest heavyweight of all time!!

You did not mention how pretty he was either.

bobmunro

Kap10 said:

bobmunro said:

DRAddick said:

No question a fantastic athlete and boxer and great historical figure and probably overall a half decent bloke (eventually). But I always wondered why Ali's disrespectful behaviour towards others and parts of his earlier "beliefs" are a taboo subject just brushed off as 'character'. They're accepted and ignored yet other fighters, and people in the public eye in general, get public and media outcrys at anything and everything they do or say.
Certain people are put on such a high pedestal, and sometimes factoring in certain demographic influences, any negative trait gets ignored or people are too scared to mention it.

I don't think his more inflammatory comments are ignored at all - they are well documented and very many books have been written about Ali, warts and all.

I would not for a second defend Ali's comments about Frazier and others and later in life he regretted them, as he did some of his more extreme views on segregation rather than integration, which he backtracked on. I believe that the situation Ali found himself in, along with most African Americans, is perhaps not best summed up by describing them as 'certain demographic influences'. He, along with Martin Luther King Jnr and Bobby Kennedy, were instrumental in the civil rights movement, bringing about change - that has still a way to go.

As a man he was flawed, as we all are flawed, but balancing the negatives and positives he comes out massively in positive credit.

And I haven't once mentioned how he was also the greatest heavyweight of all time!!

You did not mention how pretty he was either.

He was more than pretty - he was almost unbelievably handsome (if a man can say that about a man).

MuttleyCAFC

He was selling fights. He had genuine respect for both Frazier and Foreman. That is the important thing.