I was part of the group that went out to Belgium last month, although not part of the trip to Meire's parents house.
My understanding is that everything was pleasant and peaceful to the point that Meire's father spoke with @The_President for a good few minutes and ended with a handshake. The visit wasn't intended to intimidate her parents and I believe only one person went to the door rather than a large group.
People may have misconceptions about what the trips to Belgium are liked based on some comments made on here but they are carried out in the same way the protests are at The Valley. We receive a tremendous amount of support from STVV supporters and have built up some useful contacts.
The small group that went was diverse in age and although we didn't agree on everything, we understand that different approaches are needed as we work towards our common goal of getting RD to sell up. At no point is the intention to do anything that could potentially undo all of the good work done to date by Card and others.
I was part of the group that went out to Belgium last month, although not part of the trip to Meire's parents house.
My understanding is that everything was pleasant and peaceful to the point that Meire's father spoke with @The_President for a good few minutes and ended with a handshake. The visit wasn't intended to intimidate her parents and I believe only one person went to the door rather than a large group.
People may have misconceptions about what the trips to Belgium are liked based on some comments made on here but they are carried out in the same way the protests are at The Valley. We receive a tremendous amount of support from STVV supporters and have built up some useful contacts.
The small group that went was diverse in age and although we didn't agree on everything, we understand that different approaches are needed as we work towards our common goal of getting RD to sell up. At no point is the intention to do anything that could potentially undo all of the good work done to date by Card and others.
It's a great pity that the 2 hornet nest stirrers have purposely or ignorantly given the wrong impression. Either way it's not good for you. Thanks for taking the time to actually state the facts.
You knock on Meires parents house. Her father opens the door and you say what exactly that can progress our cause without causing offence or even intimidating the poor bloke.
The net result of this will be to provide KM with propaganda that she will be able to use, possibly to some effect. Difficult to see how anything positive could have arisen as a result.
A step too far. But if Roland and Katrien want to continue to take the piss, wind people up, push people too far and show a total disregard for their feelings, then they shouldn't be surprised when this sort of thing happens. They are screwing with people's minds and their lives, it's a dangerous game to play.
I want them gone as much as anyone but get a grip. It's just football.
I doubt the club employees that are made redundant due to KM and RD's deliberate mismanagement will be thinking that, nor their families.
anything that makes her pack up and leave is fine with me, nobody should be doing their job as badly as she is doing hers. no doubt this will get back to her and as long as her parents were not intimidated or abused i can't see too much wrong with that, just want to get all of this vermin out of our club.
and yes i understand so does everybody and this action isn't everyone's cup of tea and that's fair enough.
We should get your dad's opinion on this. We should target his bar to do so.
A step too far. But if Roland and Katrien want to continue to take the piss, wind people up, push people too far and show a total disregard for their feelings, then they shouldn't be surprised when this sort of thing happens. They are screwing with people's minds and their lives, it's a dangerous game to play.
I want them gone as much as anyone but get a grip. It's just football.
I doubt the club employees that are made redundant due to KM and RD's deliberate mismanagement will be thinking that, nor their families.
I very much doubt those that you refer to would want KM's parents targeted over their redundancies. It's a ridiculous notion to tie the two together.
Saying that obviously I'd be fuming about it if it happened to my parents but then I wouldn't be super shit , ignorant and mucking up a lifetimes passion and tradition of lots of people whilst showing zero humility towards those whose footballing lifestyle I have pissed about with
Tough one in all honesty
As well as your first post this is exactly how I feel too. KM and RD can only go on messing with people's lives and passion for so long before it starts messing with her own.
No matter how much we think it means to us, supporting Charlton Athletic is not worth damaging our relationships with family & friends.
Really think how you'd feel if someone knocked at your door, being from another country, speaking another language and basically slagging off your daughter's work...
Some things are a lot more important than football clubs and football itself.
Remember that when you next speak to your loved ones and question how you'd feel in that scenario.
For what it's worth (i.e. about as much as a Turkish Lira, on a good day), my view is that leafleting in Sint Truiden and environs is fine (if you know where individuals live, so much the better, as long as the leafleting is of the surrounding area).
Not really sure about the benefit of ringing the doorbell, or whatever, to get an interaction with the parents - I appreciate that the difficulty would not arise with The Shareholder, as he doesn't have any...
But what is done is done, whether I would be comfortable with it or not is of no importance. I'd be keen to see what lessons have been learned (and I'm sure I will, in subsequent actions).
Personally, I believe that, given his wealth, The Shareholder's main weakness is in the court of public opinion, both here and in Belgium.
So, in my view, it is clear that publicity in Belgium is very important, but it will not work without being in concert with the activities in and around The Valley.
The use of billboards (whether static or mobile, or video), newspapers, or other advertising in Belgium may be very effective. I would be inclined to suggest, for variety, leafleting KU Leuven (with a Meire-themed flyer) or the Parliament, or a campaign of fans writing to Belgian MPs and media.
Life can be made very "interesting" for RD and co.
We have been smarter than the regime so far. Let's keep it up.
It still isn't entirely clear to me what exactly happened on the doorstep. However if it is the case that the father opened the door and when asked, denied that KM is his daughter, and assuming you had the right house, that tells us that he was obviously very unsettled by the experience, whether or not our fans thought they were "polite".
So given the reaction on here, (and I do see some of the arguments of those who did this) it would now be a a very smart idea to send some flowers and a note that might say that on consideration we realise that this was an intimidating thing to do, no such intimidation was meant, and it won't happen again.
There is a Valley Party precedent when we sent flowers to Simon Oelman's wife, and told the press about it, after she complained of being abused by Charlton fans.
I think as always Prague has a very good idea, and something I'd be happy to chip in on.
I also don't want to start vilifying those who did this. I understand that you did something on your own initiative and money which you felt was fair, and a couple weeks later it turns out that a seeming majority of us don't agree. This doesn't make you bad people or "enemies of the revolution." I personally made a flippant remark about "wanting to be better than Millwall fans" which was meant purely tongue-in-cheek, but I apologize if anyone took that seriously.
It's quite possible that we have many more months or years of protests ahead of us, and we will not always be in full consensus (or even consensus) on how to proceed. Where "The Line" is is incredibly subjective and fickle. So, while I don't agree with this particular action, I still applaud your intent.
Of course it's intimidating. As there is passive aggression, this is passive intimidation.
At one level the target receives an 'I know where you live, I know where your parents live' message that may lead them to fear horses heads in the future. That's not a cool.
On another level, by all accounts, there were no threatening encounters, leafleting was carried out in areas that could give the highest visibility to the regime and was carried out and conducted politely. This is in stark contrast to how these encounters could have happened with the harder edge of virtually any other club.
This for me supports the view that Charlton is supported by a great bunch of people and let's not forget we agree more than we disagree (standard trolls excepted)
Sorry this goes past me can't see how visiting (or whatever) KM's parents achieves anything and smacks a bit of (polite) intimidation. And exactly how will this affect the situation? Seems like one idea to far and I don't support it. Lets keep the presssure up but only where it is sensible and logical.
It still isn't entirely clear to me what exactly happened on the doorstep. However if it is the case that the father opened the door and when asked, denied that KM is his daughter, and assuming you had the right house, that tells us that he was obviously very unsettled by the experience, whether or not our fans thought they were "polite".
So given the reaction on here, (and I do see some of the arguments of those who did this) it would now be a a very smart idea to send some flowers and a note that might say that on consideration we realise that this was an intimidating thing to do, no such intimidation was meant, and it won't happen again.
There is a Valley Party precedent when we sent flowers to Simon Oelman's wife, and told the press about it, after she complained of being abused by Charlton fans.
Totally agree about the flowers, with an apology if they were upset. After all it's probably not their fault their daughter turned out to be a lying conniving bitch.
Just my opinion but while you can argue the odds about this, I personally would not under any circumstances want to see any representative of the fans sending flowers and apologies to the regime or their relations. At most, an email saying we have learnt from our mistakes (which given the mentality of the regime, may lead them to expect further visits- in the same way we are expecting more crap managers and players).
So on further reading, it was @The_President himself who had the conversation with Mr Meire. He denied that KM was his daughter, but the conversation carried on? What did you talk about, if he was denying all knowledge of KM? Like I said, I am not as strongly critical as some, but at the very least, if you decide to tell CL what you've done, you need to tell us exactly what happened.
Somebody asked why this is worse than @Coyotejohn1947 's efforts with KM's University. The answer is that he has targeted her professional reputation in Belgium, and that is exactly what we should do in RD's case. Both of them are bringing their Belgian professional peers into potential disrepute in England, and their peers should know about it. But separate the professional and the personal, I think that is the red line. And if a particular operation seems like a grey area, opt for caution.
It still isn't entirely clear to me what exactly happened on the doorstep. However if it is the case that the father opened the door and when asked, denied that KM is his daughter, and assuming you had the right house, that tells us that he was obviously very unsettled by the experience, whether or not our fans thought they were "polite".
So given the reaction on here, (and I do see some of the arguments of those who did this) it would now be a a very smart idea to send some flowers and a note that might say that on consideration we realise that this was an intimidating thing to do, no such intimidation was meant, and it won't happen again.
There is a Valley Party precedent when we sent flowers to Simon Oelman's wife, and told the press about it, after she complained of being abused by Charlton fans.
Totally agree about the flowers, with an apology if they were upset. After all it's probably not their fault their daughter turned out to be a lying conniving bitch.
So on further reading, it was @The_President himself who had the conversation with Mr Meire. He denied that KM was his daughter, but the conversation carried on? What did you talk about, if he was denying all knowledge of KM? Like I said, I am not as strongly critical as some, but at the very least, if you decide to tell CL what you've done, you need to tell us exactly what happened.
Somebody asked why this is worse than @Coyotejohn1947 's efforts with KM's University. The answer is that he has targeted her professional reputation in Belgium, and that is exactly what we should do in RD's case. Both of them are bringing their Belgian professional peers into potential disrepute in England, and their peers should know about it. But separate the professional and the personal, I think that is the red line. And if a particular operation seems like a grey area, opt for caution.
Agreed. I have only seen so far two person's understanding of what happened. If The President had this conversation, then can it not be shared?
Disagree entirely with this action. It's an own goal and counter productive.
Just had a discussion with a fellow Charlton supporting friend. He was initially supportive of Roly Two Sheds tenure but has slowly turned away from the "dark side" over the last few months i.e. he was starting to see the light and moving to a "Roly Out" position. However, he is now stating that he could not support any group that stooped to this sort of action.
A Millwall supporting friend in on the discussion stated "f**k that is low!"
I agree with both of them. It was an ill thought out thing to do and CARD supported or not it has made getting the "waivers" on side a bit more difficult.
Why does your friend have to support any group ? it's a straight forward douchbag out, you don't need to be part of a group to feel that way. By the way, have the Belgian 20 approached your friend & asked him to join them on a trip ?
Everyone who is condemning this action- if it actually brought about Roland moving nearer to selling up would you still disapprove?
Personally, I would think that if he were moving closer to selling up, it is much more likely to be the result of the protests (on TV) in the stadium. I'd be very surprised if any impact on the family of our fragrant and lovely CEO will have that kind of influence on him.
Comments
Either way it's not good for you.
Thanks for taking the time to actually state the facts.
You knock on Meires parents house. Her father opens the door and you say what exactly that can progress our cause without causing offence or even intimidating the poor bloke.
Good one.
Really think how you'd feel if someone knocked at your door, being from another country, speaking another language and basically slagging off your daughter's work...
Some things are a lot more important than football clubs and football itself.
Remember that when you next speak to your loved ones and question how you'd feel in that scenario.
"Mr.Meire?"
Not really sure about the benefit of ringing the doorbell, or whatever, to get an interaction with the parents - I appreciate that the difficulty would not arise with The Shareholder, as he doesn't have any...
But what is done is done, whether I would be comfortable with it or not is of no importance. I'd be keen to see what lessons have been learned (and I'm sure I will, in subsequent actions).
Personally, I believe that, given his wealth, The Shareholder's main weakness is in the court of public opinion, both here and in Belgium.
So, in my view, it is clear that publicity in Belgium is very important, but it will not work without being in concert with the activities in and around The Valley.
The use of billboards (whether static or mobile, or video), newspapers, or other advertising in Belgium may be very effective. I would be inclined to suggest, for variety, leafleting KU Leuven (with a Meire-themed flyer) or the Parliament, or a campaign of fans writing to Belgian MPs and media.
Life can be made very "interesting" for RD and co.
We have been smarter than the regime so far. Let's keep it up.
I also don't want to start vilifying those who did this. I understand that you did something on your own initiative and money which you felt was fair, and a couple weeks later it turns out that a seeming majority of us don't agree. This doesn't make you bad people or "enemies of the revolution." I personally made a flippant remark about "wanting to be better than Millwall fans" which was meant purely tongue-in-cheek, but I apologize if anyone took that seriously.
It's quite possible that we have many more months or years of protests ahead of us, and we will not always be in full consensus (or even consensus) on how to proceed. Where "The Line" is is incredibly subjective and fickle. So, while I don't agree with this particular action, I still applaud your intent.
At one level the target receives an 'I know where you live, I know where your parents live' message that may lead them to fear horses heads in the future. That's not a cool.
On another level, by all accounts, there were no threatening encounters, leafleting was carried out in areas that could give the highest visibility to the regime and was carried out and conducted politely. This is in stark contrast to how these encounters could have happened with the harder edge of virtually any other club.
This for me supports the view that Charlton is supported by a great bunch of people and let's not forget we agree more than we disagree (standard trolls excepted)
At most, an email saying we have learnt from our mistakes (which given the mentality of the regime, may lead them to expect further visits- in the same way we are expecting more crap managers and players).
Somebody asked why this is worse than @Coyotejohn1947 's efforts with KM's University. The answer is that he has targeted her professional reputation in Belgium, and that is exactly what we should do in RD's case. Both of them are bringing their Belgian professional peers into potential disrepute in England, and their peers should know about it. But separate the professional and the personal, I think that is the red line. And if a particular operation seems like a grey area, opt for caution.