So we really want to behave like the Neanderthals from down the road ?
As you openly point out in your follow up post, the "neanderthals from down the road" invaded a pitch and slapped an opposition player when they were running high in the play-off positions. That you seem to be under the illusion that they'd be as restrained as we have - when we've been relegated with hardly a wimper, and are being actively ran in to the ground - is quite clearly not true.
.
This is always trotted out but what protests did they make last season when they went down?
No, their owner isn't as bad as Roland but there was a lot of unhappiness about the state of their club from their fans but they were, if anything, more restrained than us.
There image is one thing and invading the pitch and slapping an oppo player another but neither measure up to the sustained, varied campaign by Charlton fans so far. Our protests have drawn near universal approval.
I take your point, but fear you've misunderstood the sentiment in which my post was intended. You've been a tad disingenuous by omitting parts of my post which specifically put that paragraph in context though.
Essentially I'm saying that were Millwall fans were facing our issues, and had already mobilised thousands of fans to protest, then the chances of them being as well behaved (i.e restrained.) as ours is small. This was in the context of Mark's initial comments bringing with it a rather unflattering comparison with those fans who assaulted an Oldham player.
The comment about going down with "hardly a wimper" was more with regards to the club on the pitch, to be near on 10 points in the dirt and with horrific goal difference is atrocious. As nice as some of our players seem - we've had a few horrific performances this season, and been plagued by the same problems again and again and again.
Whilst Millwall fans had to contend with a relegation, thats all they were contending with. In contrast, some of us welcomed the prospect of relegation if it meant a change of ownership - which puts things in to perspective. I don't think they'd have been so restrained and played by the books so nicely should they have found themselves in our situation. Quite rightly too, we're better than that, and due to both the creativity and class demonstrated by CARD we have indeed drawn "near universal approval" - long may it continue until the war is won!
As I have said many times before, I fully support the actions of CARD, which have been effective in the sense of achieving positive media coverage (which I believe is so important to the cause); which have been topical, inventive and original. Most importantly, it has been legal and has thus retained the moral high ground. Long may it continue to a point where the owner sells, be that in the short, medium or long term.
Undertaking illegal activities is not my personal "cup of tea", but I would not impose my views on others - each to their own.
I do however look with interest at the forthcoming action from the seemingly perpetrators of the alternative and more "aggressive" stance. Will it be another pitch invasion of two (no if's and but's), or just more talk, or even action to match their grand words. Only time will tell.
Peter - we have stood together before CARD were formed handing out leaflets!
Thanks for taking the piss - many have but again i want to be clear I'm not planning anything at the match - I'm helping others as they have asked for advice.
As far as i can see no one has publicly said they plan to do anything. only CARD. so i wouldn't expect anything more than what CARD are doing - perhaps an extension of what CARD has planned? everything i have advised on has been relating to postponement.
Anyway point is you will be let down if you are expecting more
I did just think about throwing teabags - powdered milk and some of those pink wafers on the pitch for the tea and blanket brigade. wouldn't want to hurt anyone
I also respect what you do for CARD! YOU ARE CARD! and hundreds of other volunteers! keep it up all of you truly you guys are doing a great job! that's not in question here IMO - it is just the effectiveness i suppose.
Whether you think it's effective or not, as you say it's the only organised protest planned for the match on Saturday so why don't you (and others) throw your weight behind it and volunteer.
In fact why don't all you in the Belgium20 throw your support behind CARD. Do your own as an extension of that but we all want the same thing. If everyone backed up the actions by other fans then they would be a lot more effective.
tbh Canters, i'm not sure there is a publicised CARD protest out there? - or am i being stupid?
Jeez, of course it's not publicised that is the whole point. Don't publicise it and don't give the club time to plan to stop it. It's really not that difficult and tbh if I was CARD (which I'm not). I'd be reluctant telling you guys the plan, when you want to blab on here in advance.
As I have said many times before, I fully support the actions of CARD, which have been effective in the sense of achieving positive media coverage (which I believe is so important to the cause); which have been topical, inventive and original. Most importantly, it has been legal and has thus retained the moral high ground. Long may it continue to a point where the owner sells, be that in the short, medium or long term.
Undertaking illegal activities is not my personal "cup of tea", but I would not impose my views on others - each to their own.
I do however look with interest at the forthcoming action from the seemingly perpetrators of the alternative and more "aggressive" stance. Will it be another pitch invasion of two (no if's and but's), or just more talk, or even action to match their grand words. Only time will tell.
Peter - we have stood together before CARD were formed handing out leaflets!
Thanks for taking the piss - many have but again i want to be clear I'm not planning anything at the match - I'm helping others as they have asked for advice.
As far as i can see no one has publicly said they plan to do anything. only CARD. so i wouldn't expect anything more than what CARD are doing - perhaps an extension of what CARD has planned? everything i have advised on has been relating to postponement.
Anyway point is you will be let down if you are expecting more
I did just think about throwing teabags - powdered milk and some of those pink wafers on the pitch for the tea and blanket brigade. wouldn't want to hurt anyone
I also respect what you do for CARD! YOU ARE CARD! and hundreds of other volunteers! keep it up all of you truly you guys are doing a great job! that's not in question here IMO - it is just the effectiveness i suppose.
Whether you think it's effective or not, as you say it's the only organised protest planned for the match on Saturday so why don't you (and others) throw your weight behind it and volunteer.
In fact why don't all you in the Belgium20 throw your support behind CARD. Do your own as an extension of that but we all want the same thing. If everyone backed up the actions by other fans then they would be a lot more effective.
tbh Canters, i'm not sure there is a publicised CARD protest out there? - or am i being stupid?
No in fact you are right. Nothing has been released yet. I was working in the assumption that there would be something going on.
I would like to meet you mate (another Surrey fan on here) so if you are up for volunteering I would love to have a pint with you. We usually meet at the Oak before the game and I will be there after as well on Saturday.
Sure mate - we are all meeting elsewhere (normally at Oak, but for security reasons its somewhere else on saturday ) but i'll buy you a pint and would love to talk cricket instead of all this protest bollox. We are going to The Oval for Surrey v Kent 20/20 game this year - maybe we could organise a CL meet-up - would be brilliant , what do you think?
So we really want to behave like the Neanderthals from down the road ?
As you openly point out in your follow up post, the "neanderthals from down the road" invaded a pitch and slapped an opposition player when they were running high in the play-off positions. That you seem to be under the illusion that they'd be as restrained as we have - when we've been relegated with hardly a wimper, and are being actively ran in to the ground - is quite clearly not true.
If we were to act like neanderthals there would've already been pitch invasions, the directors box would've been under more pressure than a one off group of fans chanting at the gate, and our protests likely would've already involved numerous arrests. That such continued pressure has been applied to the club via CARD, and to my knowledge with 0 arrests, is a testament to how well mannered things have been.
Not to mention, there has been no talk of actively attacking players - be they Charlton or opposition. Implying that is quite offensive to those involved in the protests.
This idea if you aren't with CARD you are a thug or whatever is damaging to the protest movement I would say!
Not really what I said, is it mate?
It wasn't directed at you, sorry it was just a general statement at the conversation.
and also markmc68 comment
Oh, I've no idea where Mark's comparison with Millwall fans came from - utterly bizarre!
I agree though, if other fans want to seek alternative means of voicing their opinion then - to be quite honest - that's their right, and they have as much right as anyone else. I can understand CARD wanting them to keep their own organised and "clean" approach though.
CARD have taken on a pretty good position with the protests - playful and creative, with a clear message but willing to play by the law. It's very convenient when they make a release like this and confirm that image even more. It's vocal and it gets the message across, whilst people seem to completely approve of them. A very good face for the protests.
If others want to do stuff though.. the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned!
The CARD protests have been hugely effective in gaining media attention and national support. They have a fine and difficult line to keep this going and to keep the massive internal support that we have, Currently about 85% support the CARD protests. If CARD were to openly support different tactics this could be at risk.
Having said that it doesn't stop other people doing things. The best example of this is the Belgium protest by President and others. These activities must be supported as Roland will be affected by these more personally. Some of the bickering as to which is best is irrelevant. Let's all get behind all the protests to achieve our aim.
As I have said many times before, I fully support the actions of CARD, which have been effective in the sense of achieving positive media coverage (which I believe is so important to the cause); which have been topical, inventive and original. Most importantly, it has been legal and has thus retained the moral high ground. Long may it continue to a point where the owner sells, be that in the short, medium or long term.
Undertaking illegal activities is not my personal "cup of tea", but I would not impose my views on others - each to their own.
I do however look with interest at the forthcoming action from the seemingly perpetrators of the alternative and more "aggressive" stance. Will it be another pitch invasion of two (no if's and but's), or just more talk, or even action to match their grand words. Only time will tell.
Peter - we have stood together before CARD were formed handing out leaflets!
Thanks for taking the piss - many have but again i want to be clear I'm not planning anything at the match - I'm helping others as they have asked for advice.
As far as i can see no one has publicly said they plan to do anything. only CARD. so i wouldn't expect anything more than what CARD are doing - perhaps an extension of what CARD has planned? everything i have advised on has been relating to postponement.
Anyway point is you will be let down if you are expecting more
I did just think about throwing teabags - powdered milk and some of those pink wafers on the pitch for the tea and blanket brigade. wouldn't want to hurt anyone
I also respect what you do for CARD! YOU ARE CARD! and hundreds of other volunteers! keep it up all of you truly you guys are doing a great job! that's not in question here IMO - it is just the effectiveness i suppose.
Whether you think it's effective or not, as you say it's the only organised protest planned for the match on Saturday so why don't you (and others) throw your weight behind it and volunteer.
In fact why don't all you in the Belgium20 throw your support behind CARD. Do your own as an extension of that but we all want the same thing. If everyone backed up the actions by other fans then they would be a lot more effective.
tbh Canters, i'm not sure there is a publicised CARD protest out there? - or am i being stupid?
No in fact you are right. Nothing has been released yet. I was working in the assumption that there would be something going on.
I would like to meet you mate (another Surrey fan on here) so if you are up for volunteering I would love to have a pint with you. We usually meet at the Oak before the game and I will be there after as well on Saturday.
Sure mate - we are all meeting elsewhere (normally at Oak, but for security reasons its somewhere else on saturday ) but i'll buy you a pint and would love to talk cricket instead of all this protest bollox. We are going to The Oval for Surrey v Kent 20/20 game this year - maybe we could organise a CL meet-up - would be brilliant , what do you think?
Yeah would be good to put a face to the username.
I think I am also going to that game! May take a Roland Out flag to put on show! Yeah a CL meet would be good!
As I have said many times before, I fully support the actions of CARD, which have been effective in the sense of achieving positive media coverage (which I believe is so important to the cause); which have been topical, inventive and original. Most importantly, it has been legal and has thus retained the moral high ground. Long may it continue to a point where the owner sells, be that in the short, medium or long term.
Undertaking illegal activities is not my personal "cup of tea", but I would not impose my views on others - each to their own.
I do however look with interest at the forthcoming action from the seemingly perpetrators of the alternative and more "aggressive" stance. Will it be another pitch invasion of two (no if's and but's), or just more talk, or even action to match their grand words. Only time will tell.
Peter - we have stood together before CARD were formed handing out leaflets!
Thanks for taking the piss - many have but again i want to be clear I'm not planning anything at the match - I'm helping others as they have asked for advice.
As far as i can see no one has publicly said they plan to do anything. only CARD. so i wouldn't expect anything more than what CARD are doing - perhaps an extension of what CARD has planned? everything i have advised on has been relating to postponement.
Anyway point is you will be let down if you are expecting more
I did just think about throwing teabags - powdered milk and some of those pink wafers on the pitch for the tea and blanket brigade. wouldn't want to hurt anyone
I also respect what you do for CARD! YOU ARE CARD! and hundreds of other volunteers! keep it up all of you truly you guys are doing a great job! that's not in question here IMO - it is just the effectiveness i suppose.
Whether you think it's effective or not, as you say it's the only organised protest planned for the match on Saturday so why don't you (and others) throw your weight behind it and volunteer.
In fact why don't all you in the Belgium20 throw your support behind CARD. Do your own as an extension of that but we all want the same thing. If everyone backed up the actions by other fans then they would be a lot more effective.
tbh Canters, i'm not sure there is a publicised CARD protest out there? - or am i being stupid?
Stu, of course CARD have 'activities' planned for Saturday. The secrecy behind them is key though. The fact that the Club have no idea of what to expect is creating them no end of problems. Which at this stage is exactly what we as supporters need to achieve.
Saturday is our last chance this season to have a mass protest. We need to take advantage of the fact the cameras will be there and I believe the last thing we need to do is to make the average football fans think "they're only doing this because they have been relegated".
Moral high ground? Absolutely.
I hope you and Neil both turn up and support CARD actively on Saturday. This is just another battle in the fight against the owner. I'm now convinced it won't be the last.
There will be time for further Belgium invasions and I hope CARD are able to support this and encourage bigger numbers to shit on his doorstep. There may be even time for more militant action.
I just think that it is not now.
We need to keep the pressure up and we need the support of the football community in general to back us. CARD is making sure this happens and their statement this week was sensible.
I will be there on Saturday to do what I can to help out, even though I'm unable to be as active as I would hope. My son will be in 'the front line' though and I couldn't be more proud that it matters as much to him as it does to me.
Nick, of course we will all be there, and (despite what everyone seems to think) fully supporting CARD - I certainly have never suggested otherwise, and wouldnt want anything else.
How very Charlton. How very predictable. All the while we are the 'family club'. All the while we are polite, mature, sensible supporters, the longer we will be stuck with this lot. The day We say 'fuck it' and spoil the last day of the season, the day we get the game abandoned, the day the club incurs a massive fine and the game has to be replayed or we get points deducted next season, the day we make hard to read headlines around the country making people realise how serious we are and make the FA uncomfortable with questions that need answering......that'll be the day the penny drops.
Still, I'm sure we can all turn out for Burnley, get behind them, and all have a great day, giving them a well deserved round of applause for winning promotion, a bit like we did last season with Bournemouth. We are such nice fans aren't we.
For what it's worth I agreed with the stance that if we abandoned the game when it could still affect Boro and Brighton and could have seriously pissed both of them off and lost a lot of sympathy as a result from the wider football world but now Burnley are up I don't give a fig about how they feel. Not saying we should get it abandoned but if it were it wouldn't bother me.
Also, I think CARD have been brilliant and I've been proud to help out on a match day, the fact it has been run as it has means that the majority of fans are happy to get behind it and support it.
I am too fully supportive of the Belgium 20 and we shouldn't under estimate what they are achieving. Embarrassing and annoying Roland and Katrien personally, and their families, whilst remaining within the law, is fully acceptable to me. They have brought it upon themselves. I'd even say that we need to do the same here, leaflet her neighbours here, piss her off.
We are all in this together, with one aim, let's not start fighting amongst ourselves.
I was quite concerned that serious disruption would backfire on us. I am glad CARD has taken the right decision.
Is it the right decision though?
How would serious disruption backfire on us as fans? If you are inferring a points deduction I would suggest that having Roland in charge has cost us more than twenty points this season. All the goodwill in the world from other clubs isn't going to shift the bastard. The National press are already getting bored and much of the local press will follow suit after a while. There seems to be an obsession with being nice. Burnley fans will be grateful to us on Saturday and then they will forget about us as their club, that probably has a smaller fan base than ours and a smaller ground, go two divisions above us.
Having Roland and his family (don't forget his son has a penchant for owning clubs ) run us for generations would be the worse thing that could backfire on us.
Only time will tell what is the right decision; maybe, I was wrong to say definitively that it is the right decision. At this stage, I believe it is the best decision. I think to damage an exciting Championship top of table final day could lose us a lot of friends in the media, at other clubs and ultimately within our supporter base. Further, it could cause crowd trouble with a large Burnley contingent.
A points deduction or ground closure might not be in our best interests. It's ok saying it damages RD but it might go beyond that. I have a feeling the FA will over react if we spoil the last day and, to a great extent, I can see their point.
To me, going out with a bang this season is not that important. Showing we will be there in force at the start of next season if RD remains is a much tougher challenge for CARD but far more important.
Ok. I still feel that having Roland as an owner is far worse than anything the FA will do to us. I also worry that "we" won't be there in force at the start of next season.
However CARD have not said that they do not plan anything on Saturday. I just hope that any protest has real impact and hurts the regime in a meaningful way rather than a jokey affair that will just get lost in the coverage of Burnley's promotion.
This is the key point here that is imho being overlooked.
There will still be protests according to the CARD statement.
Now if that is just one guy with a "down with this sort of thing" banner then people can be disappointed.
We all have a choice.
Volunteer to help with whatever CARD have planned (that's mine), do your own thing (good on you and good luck) or be like the laughable idiots on Facebook digging out @rikofold while talking tough behind a keyboard but who will do nothing.
Nick CARD have our full support! That aim was to cause a debate and kick the hornets nest. The responses were interesting and good feedback for CARD which is good to see!
See you on Saturday probably. Hopefully not from the back of a meat waggon lol
I did have a funny idea (inspired by the president) he currently has @Mametz top hat and suggested he needed it to smuggle stress balls in on Saturday!
I thought how funny would it be if everyone bought these:
I was quite concerned that serious disruption would backfire on us. I am glad CARD has taken the right decision.
Is it the right decision though?
How would serious disruption backfire on us as fans? If you are inferring a points deduction I would suggest that having Roland in charge has cost us more than twenty points this season. All the goodwill in the world from other clubs isn't going to shift the bastard. The National press are already getting bored and much of the local press will follow suit after a while. There seems to be an obsession with being nice. Burnley fans will be grateful to us on Saturday and then they will forget about us as their club, that probably has a smaller fan base than ours and a smaller ground, go two divisions above us.
Having Roland and his family (don't forget his son has a penchant for owning clubs ) run us for generations would be the worse thing that could backfire on us.
Only time will tell what is the right decision; maybe, I was wrong to say definitively that it is the right decision. At this stage, I believe it is the best decision. I think to damage an exciting Championship top of table final day could lose us a lot of friends in the media, at other clubs and ultimately within our supporter base. Further, it could cause crowd trouble with a large Burnley contingent.
A points deduction or ground closure might not be in our best interests. It's ok saying it damages RD but it might go beyond that. I have a feeling the FA will over react if we spoil the last day and, to a great extent, I can see their point.
To me, going out with a bang this season is not that important. Showing we will be there in force at the start of next season if RD remains is a much tougher challenge for CARD but far more important.
Ok. I still feel that having Roland as an owner is far worse than anything the FA will do to us. I also worry that "we" won't be there in force at the start of next season.
However CARD have not said that they do not plan anything on Saturday. I just hope that any protest has real impact and hurts the regime in a meaningful way rather than a jokey affair that will just get lost in the coverage of Burnley's promotion.
This is the key point here that is imho being overlooked.
There will still be protests according to the CARD statement.
Now if that is just one guy with a "down with this sort of thing" banner then people can be disappointed.
We all have a choice.
Volunteer to help with whatever CARD have planned (that's mine), do your own thing (good on you and good luck) or be like the laughable idiots on Facebook digging out @rikofold while talking tough behind a keyboard but who will do nothing.
SIOIBAW
When I first read this I was wondering why you were calling yourself Siobhan, and it not even the weekend too....
got a lot of respect for what you have achieved Pres as I do believe you were a driving force in the Belgium protests, however the other geezer is giving it the Bertie big bollox , and wants us to bow at his feet, well sunshine many of us fought for our club 30 years ago and will do it again, but don't need the self adulation, I'm glad you are taking a back seat soon coz you are gettin on my tits.
Nick CARD have our full support! That aim was to cause a debate and kick the hornets nest. The responses were interesting and good feedback for CARD which is good to see!
See you on Saturday probably. Hopefully not from the back of a meat waggon lol
I've gone right off you. Stirring and using too many !!!!! in your posts
I just hope there is at least some disruption like there has been for the last few weeks. It's been the only fun thing about going to the valley recently.
Nick CARD have our full support! That aim was to cause a debate and kick the hornets nest. The responses were interesting and good feedback for CARD which is good to see!
See you on Saturday probably. Hopefully not from the back of a meat waggon lol
I've gone right off you. Stirring and using too many !!!!! in your posts
Comments
Essentially I'm saying that were Millwall fans were facing our issues, and had already mobilised thousands of fans to protest, then the chances of them being as well behaved (i.e restrained.) as ours is small. This was in the context of Mark's initial comments bringing with it a rather unflattering comparison with those fans who assaulted an Oldham player.
The comment about going down with "hardly a wimper" was more with regards to the club on the pitch, to be near on 10 points in the dirt and with horrific goal difference is atrocious. As nice as some of our players seem - we've had a few horrific performances this season, and been plagued by the same problems again and again and again.
Whilst Millwall fans had to contend with a relegation, thats all they were contending with. In contrast, some of us welcomed the prospect of relegation if it meant a change of ownership - which puts things in to perspective. I don't think they'd have been so restrained and played by the books so nicely should they have found themselves in our situation. Quite rightly too, we're better than that, and due to both the creativity and class demonstrated by CARD we have indeed drawn "near universal approval" - long may it continue until the war is won!
I agree though, if other fans want to seek alternative means of voicing their opinion then - to be quite honest - that's their right, and they have as much right as anyone else. I can understand CARD wanting them to keep their own organised and "clean" approach though.
CARD have taken on a pretty good position with the protests - playful and creative, with a clear message but willing to play by the law. It's very convenient when they make a release like this and confirm that image even more. It's vocal and it gets the message across, whilst people seem to completely approve of them. A very good face for the protests.
If others want to do stuff though.. the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned!
Having said that it doesn't stop other people doing things. The best example of this is the Belgium protest by President and others. These activities must be supported as Roland will be affected by these more personally. Some of the bickering as to which is best is irrelevant.
Let's all get behind all the protests to achieve our aim.
I think I am also going to that game! May take a Roland Out flag to put on show! Yeah a CL meet would be good!
Saturday is our last chance this season to have a mass protest. We need to take advantage of the fact the cameras will be there and I believe the last thing we need to do is to make the average football fans think "they're only doing this because they have been relegated".
Moral high ground? Absolutely.
I hope you and Neil both turn up and support CARD actively on Saturday. This is just another battle in the fight against the owner. I'm now convinced it won't be the last.
There will be time for further Belgium invasions and I hope CARD are able to support this and encourage bigger numbers to shit on his doorstep. There may be even time for more militant action.
I just think that it is not now.
We need to keep the pressure up and we need the support of the football community in general to back us. CARD is making sure this happens and their statement this week was sensible.
I will be there on Saturday to do what I can to help out, even though I'm unable to be as active as I would hope. My son will be in 'the front line' though and I couldn't be more proud that it matters as much to him as it does to me.
YBTWC
Still, I'm sure we can all turn out for Burnley, get behind them, and all have a great day, giving them a well deserved round of applause for winning promotion, a bit like we did last season with Bournemouth. We are such nice fans aren't we.
Also, I think CARD have been brilliant and I've been proud to help out on a match day, the fact it has been run as it has means that the majority of fans are happy to get behind it and support it.
I am too fully supportive of the Belgium 20 and we shouldn't under estimate what they are achieving. Embarrassing and annoying Roland and Katrien personally, and their families, whilst remaining within the law, is fully acceptable to me. They have brought it upon themselves. I'd even say that we need to do the same here, leaflet her neighbours here, piss her off.
We are all in this together, with one aim, let's not start fighting amongst ourselves.
There will still be protests according to the CARD statement.
Now if that is just one guy with a "down with this sort of thing" banner then people can be disappointed.
We all have a choice.
Volunteer to help with whatever CARD have planned (that's mine), do your own thing (good on you and good luck) or be like the laughable idiots on Facebook digging out @rikofold while talking tough behind a keyboard but who will do nothing.
SIOIBAW
See you on Saturday probably. Hopefully not from the back of a meat waggon lol
I thought how funny would it be if everyone bought these:
Surely they can't ask you to remove your hat lol
The early kick off will mean people will arrive at the Valley much closer to kick off time leaving less time to organise and distribute things.
It seems that it is going to be warm so people will be wearing less meaning less places to hide things.
I think that the amount of searches are going to stepped up.