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The Murder of Alexander Litvinenko

If there is anyone out there who still does not believe that Putin is a murderous thug, contemptuous of democracy and human life, and a massive danger to world peace, they should read this and be in no further doubt.

The best we can hope for is that Luguvoi will himself eventually die a slow and horrible death from his own crime, as he seems to have been a walking dose of Polonium 210.

At the same time I am in awe of Marina Litvinenko, a woman whose love for her husband even after his death compels her to fight for justice, taking on this entire murderous regime in the process. A woman to have by your side through the very worst of times. She, rather than Putin, is the very embodiment of the Russian soul.
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Comments

  • I have a Russian friend who is a vociferous critic of the current regime in Russia. I genuinely fear for him. I don't know how safe he feels here, especially given the above, but he is obviously compelled to comment.
  • edited January 2016
    There will be Russian-NATO engagements in Eastern Europe soon. The EU's weak response to recent crises have all but guaranteed it. Interesting times.
  • There will be Russian-NATO engagements in Eastern Europe soon. The EU and its weak response to recent crises have all but guaranteed it. Interesting times.

    But of course if anyone in what you call "the EU" suggests we need a common EU defence unit, for example to secure the external borders, Farage and his type in various other countries jump up and down in false apoplexy.

  • Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.
  • Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    You seem to be an expert in using a hammer.

    On the nail with the above.

  • Putin did it ?

    I thought it was Roland or Thatcher.
  • There will be Russian-NATO engagements in Eastern Europe soon. The EU and its weak response to recent crises have all but guaranteed it. Interesting times.

    But of course if anyone in what you call "the EU" suggests we need a common EU defence unit, for example to secure the external borders, Farage and his type in various other countries jump up and down in false apoplexy.

    Whose troops? Under whose control? What would their rules of engagement be? How would an EU army effect NATO? After the serial fuck ups we've seen from our EU masters you want to give them direct control of army? You really are an EU zealot.
  • Now people calling for us to boycott 2018 World Cup. Does not quite feel like the right reaction to me, somehow.
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  • Meanwhile back in the UK, 42 year old Luke, a schizophrenic who slowly had his benefits cut after his mother (carer) died, has himself died. His crime was to be mentally ill so maybe the moral high ground is looking a bit flatter these days?
  • Meanwhile back in the UK, 42 year old Luke, a schizophrenic who slowly had his benefits cut after his mother (carer) died, has himself died. His crime was to be mentally ill so maybe the moral high ground is looking a bit flatter these days?

    And what was litvenenko's crime?

    Luke's death is obviously a tragedy. But there's a difference between his death and radioactive material being thrown about London hotel rooms and streets potentially putting millions in danger.
  • Meanwhile back in the UK, 42 year old Luke, a schizophrenic who slowly had his benefits cut after his mother (carer) died, has himself died. His crime was to be mentally ill so maybe the moral high ground is looking a bit flatter these days?

    And what was litvenenko's crime?

    Luke's death is obviously a tragedy. But there's a difference between his death and radioactive material being thrown about London hotel rooms and streets potentially putting millions in danger.
    treason?
  • Now people calling for us to boycott 2018 World Cup. Does not quite feel like the right reaction to me, somehow.

    they are assuming we are actually going to qualify? Bit presumptuous isn't it?
  • Shades of the 'poisoned brolly' all that time ago. The fact that the killing was committed using a dangerous radioactive substance sends a clear message from the Kremlin: 'Don't fuck with us'. Russia is still as Churchill had it 'a mystery wrapped in an enigma'.
    Problem is at the moment, 'the west' is loath to make more sanctions against Putin and his cadre. At present, Russia is the only power with the political will and strategic goals necessary to meddle wholeheartedly in the Middle East, especially Syria. We wait to see what the result of that will be, probably a split Syria with a Russian puppet in Assad controlling the arable coastal strip and ISIS still doing their thing in the desert
  • Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Oh so thats all right then.

    Met him, did you? Does it not cross your mind that he crossed over because he was disgusted at what Putin is doing to his country.? And what about the other 6-7 cases the inquiry mentions. They all shafts of vomit too? And you think its alright for Russian agents to go swanning around London ( including a football stadium) with Polonium 210?


  • edited January 2016

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Oh so thats all right then.

    Met him, did you?

    Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.

    I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.

    I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
  • You can't put the blame on these Russian agents or Putin as they said they didn't do it.
  • Now people calling for us to boycott 2018 World Cup. Does not quite feel like the right reaction to me, somehow.

    they are assuming we are actually going to qualify? Bit presumptuous isn't it?
    Even more presumptuous from a Weegie !
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  • Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Oh so thats all right then.

    Met him, did you?

    Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule as any others.

    I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.

    I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
    once again, why are people ignoring these russian men were carrying around incredibly dangerous material and had no idea what they were handling. This could easily have been an absolute disaster.

    People falling over themselves in this thread to fit some kind of personal agenda against the british government.
  • Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Oh so thats all right then.

    Met him, did you?

    Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule as any others.

    I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.

    I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
    once again, why are people ignoring these russian men were carrying around incredibly dangerous material and had no idea what they were handling. This could easily have been an absolute disaster.

    People falling over themselves in this thread to fit some kind of personal agenda against the british government.
    I haven't ignored that fact and find it wholly wrong. However, I'm also of the belief that we've 'probably' done similar ourselves. Those in glass houses and all that :smile:

    As for having a personal agenda against the government.....well, sorry to disappoint but there are things more important to me in my life than worrying about what a bunch of toffs do to help themselves and their mates out. They rarely cross my mind for more than a split second :smile:
  • Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Harsh.

    He was not an agent, he was a handler - i.e an Intelligence Officer. He had placed "agents" in Chechnya and conducted investigations in Moscow. Whether Russian conduct in Chechnya is correct is irrelevant, Russia has their view of Chechnya and naturally intelligence has a key role in defeating terrorism in Chechnya. His first mistake was seemingly taking on a private role for a businessman who was nearly assassinated; Litvinenko was investigating that attempt as part of his official role.

    Talk and actions are cheap in the circles he moved in, a very interesting book is "Adventures in Modern Russia" - it's very readable and perfect for a commute. However it goes to demonstrate in various places that the police and intelligence agencies out there are liable to change internal allegiances on a whim, and are often fighting eachother like gangs. This type of attitude, in my opinion, was Litvinenko's true downfall. To claim he was a double agent who was selling his soul is simply untrue.

    He essentially took asylum in the UK, and was well aware that there was a credible threat to his life. In his shoes, with his skills and knowledge, I too would side with MI6/MI5 and take their money - and the protection you would assume would come with it. His previous employment would provide valuable in fighting organised crime originating from Eastern Europe.

    Not to mention, that even if killing him was defensible - the methods of carrying that killing out most certainly were not. If you're going to kill someone, then do it properly - do it cleanly and do it with some level of humanity. Their choice of poison was absolutely horrific, and was amateur at worst and a brutal warning to others at best. He could've been poisoned in much better ways or, just shot. Both could've been forensically more difficult to piece together too.

    If the blackmail allegations are true, which they most likely are, he was playing a risky game - and he lost. In the course of losing, Russia made it a display of strength and ensured it would put anybody else off from following his footsteps. Let's not forget, he was blackmailing corrupt officials that were responsible for his exile from his own country. Understandable, if also naive and quite greedy too.

    Ultimately, the real take away from this situation is - in case there was any doubt - the KGB has gone only by name.
  • There will be Russian-NATO engagements in Eastern Europe soon. The EU and its weak response to recent crises have all but guaranteed it. Interesting times.

    But of course if anyone in what you call "the EU" suggests we need a common EU defence unit, for example to secure the external borders, Farage and his type in various other countries jump up and down in false apoplexy.

    I'm far from the EU's biggest fan, but I'm inclined to agree that if we're stuck with the EU then there needs to be a credible defence strategy. If there was NATO during the cold war proper, then there needs to be a task-force for the current climate.

    I'm not a UKIP supporter, but to be a bit cheeky and turn your politics around for a second though, I think such a defence also requires a credible nuclear deterrent - in which case "Corbyn and his type jump up and down in false apoplexy". ;) Like an EU defence force though, we should all hope it would never be used.
  • Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Oh so thats all right then.

    Met him, did you?

    Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.

    I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.

    I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
    Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.

    As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
  • edited January 2016
    I'd love to be a spy, must be a proper buzz for a job

    You dont cross Putin and we all know that, mental they were walking around in London glowing like the Simpsons,

    The fella must've always known he would meet a nasty mucky end or atleast there was a very good chance of coming unstuck big time

    There is nothing anyone can do and tbh I reckon this public announced condemnation has put numerous British spys in danger and should have been washed under the carpet

  • edited January 2016

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Tramp said:

    Let us not forget Livinenko was a double agent, happy to sell his soul and his countries secrets to the UK. I'm also curious to know why was he meeting up with a couple of old mates over a cup of tea in the first place. Was he planning to sell our secrets back to Russia? Like the guys he met, and the appalling Putin, and many of our own kind he was nothing more than a shaft of vomit.

    The world is a slightly better place without him.

    Oh so thats all right then.

    Met him, did you?

    Did you? If not then it makes your comments just as open to ridicule and/or scrutiny as any others.

    I'm sure the inquiry has been some form of hatchet job. You've only got to look at the summation that it was 'probably' ordered by Putin to see just how much guesswork has been applied.

    I assume, maybe incorrectly, that you're also against our special forces carrying out operations on foreign soil?
    Of course i havent met him, thats why i dont rush to condemn him in the foul way the other poster did.

    As to your question about our special forces, I have rather more faith in them than in these Russian thugs. For a start, none of them choose the limelight. Have you seen what has happened to Lugovoi since? No, on reflection you probably have no idea what Im on about.
    Touchy little fella, aren't you? :smiley:

    How can you have more faith in a like for like organisation? You know as little about our special forces as you do theirs, other than what is drip fed through various channels (and a lot of that is put out as smoke and mirrors to appease the masses that think they have a right to know sensitive information). I know we all like to think that our sh*t doesn't stink but the truth is more than likely that they're all as bad as each other.

    Thanks for completely dismissing my, and assuming I don't have any, thoughts on Lugovoi before you'd heard them. That sort of dismissive attitude neither serves you well, shows you in a good light or wins a reasoned debate.

    Good day to you, sir.
  • There's a fkd up story in the mail about this and that the dead fella had seen videos of vlad gone bad and noncing kids
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