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Valley Gold

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  • stonemuse said:

    By my reckoning, a year has 12 months. So the "second half" is July to December.

    I'm not being awkward but where does it categorically state Q2? It appears to be rather vague ...we were seeking certainty before making a decision to stay in or not.
    We're going in circles here. The statement issued was agreed by the whole committee, so including KM and David Joyes. That is why it is "rather vague". You'll have to make your own mind up whether you trust the inferences or not, but I do believe that the fans ' reps have said they will withhold the June payment.

    That's what I am looking for to put my mind at ease ...where can I find that statement?
  • edited January 2016
    It is not in the statement - but I personally have seen/ heard enough intimation above to convince me.
  • Thanks for responding Weegie ...unfortunately intimation does not meet my pre-meeting request.
  • Instead of paying out on 29th June it is paid on !st July, covers the committee's backside. Sound like a good old Trade Union v Employer fudge, where both sides are trying to save face.
  • stonemuse said:

    Thanks for responding Weegie ...unfortunately intimation does not meet my pre-meeting request.

    Fair enough, it is up to each individual to make their own decision.
  • I trust our two committee members of VG, I do not trust anyone employed by KM and therefore would like clarification what is meant by "later on in the year" but I realise that Rik is constrained by a joint decision and therefore I won't get clarification. Therefore my hope is to remain in VG until June and see what happens, my concern is how will I know what happens within V.G. and whether a payment is made to the club?

  • Oh Henry Irving does love a wind-up.

    Shame the "all fans united" lasted as long as Wim de Corte's reign...

    I think he's asking a perfectly pertinent question.

    @rikofold has explained clearly why his tongue is tied and referred those asking to Sharron's comment re 2nd half of the year, which Henry was well aware of, but chose to ignore.

    I didn't ignore it at all.

    I made reference to it.

    If what Sharon, an very able employee but still an employee, is saying is correct and no payment will be made in June then how is it she, an employee, can say this but a committee member can not? Has Sharon acted incorrectly and said something she shouldn't?

    Why leave the ambiguity? Why allow more members to leave? Why not just say "There will be no payment in June" End of, done, everyone is happy and we "move on"

    And if @rikofold doesn't want to answer my question because it is coming from me then answer the questions of the other VG members on this thread.

    He won't say it because the the statement is, in my opinion, ambiguous. Whether @rikofold realised it was ambiguous at the time he helped draft it or only afterwards I don't know but it is ambiguous and I believe that some of the other committee members knew that it was at the time they drafted it. They teach you that in law school.
    The problems I have are:

    Under what circumstances will a payment be made?
    Statement was too vague. Why would the fans reps not give more detail?
    What would KM do if full disclosure of the threats were made public?
    Why won't the Management Committee facilitate a general meeting? Of course our hands are tied as we can't contact all members and they know that.

    My next payment is due in a couple of weeks or so but I have cancelled my standing order. I would reconsider if there was more detail and that it said what I wanted to hear.

    Sadly I do not anticipate changing my mind any time soon.
  • edited January 2016

    I trust our two committee members of VG, I do not trust anyone employed by KM and therefore would like clarification what is meant by "later on in the year" but I realise that Rik is constrained by a joint decision and therefore I won't get clarification. Therefore my hope is to remain in VG until June and see what happens, my concern is how will I know what happens within V.G. and whether a payment is made to the club?

    That woman is on the VG committee. I was hoping she would have resigned by now, but alas no.
  • I hope the minutes of the meeting will shed a bit more light on the situation, but after reading FF minutes, I won't hold my breath.

  • @rikofold has explained clearly why his tongue is tied

    Then he should call a emergency GM and let the Members decided

    It us up to members to call such a meeting - there is another thread re this.

    The committee members can also call a general meeting is they so choose.
    Didn't you suggest on a protest ideas thread that people shouldn't put forward ideas wanting others to make them happen?
    Youre quite right I did which is why I called for VG members to write to VG to call a members meeting which many members but not yet the required 10% have done. I wrote to VG myself and called for such a meeting and I've written to the chair of VG asking for more information.
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  • stonemuse said:

    Thanks for responding Weegie ...unfortunately intimation does not meet my pre-meeting request.

    Fair enough, it is up to each individual to make their own decision.
    Once the minutes of the meeting have been approved, I will take a look and, presumably, then be able to 'look between the lines'.

    At that stage, provided the minutes do not take too long to get out, I will make my decision.
  • stonemuse said:

    stonemuse said:

    Thanks for responding Weegie ...unfortunately intimation does not meet my pre-meeting request.

    Fair enough, it is up to each individual to make their own decision.
    Once the minutes of the meeting have been approved, I will take a look and, presumably, then be able to 'look between the lines'.

    At that stage, provided the minutes do not take too long to get out, I will make my decision.
    Ditto
  • I doubt that minutes will be released given the vagueness of the statement. If they are, I am sure that they will be heavily sanitised or else rik would feel comfortable in giving more detail of the meeting.

    Of course I am angry and want the regime out but I also think that as a member paying into this scheme I should be given greater information as people have requested. Members give the Management Committee the OK to operate the funds on our behalf and yes, I know that many many hours have been freely by rik and Paul of which I am grateful but times aren't normal and the status quo cannot surely continue?
  • When any committee that consists of opposing views issues a statement it is always a compromise and the committee members have to stick to the agreed statement, if they don't then the committee becomes unworkable.
    In the case of VG a payment to the club was due in June, the statement says that

    "they would not consider any further major donations to the football club until later on in the year."

    Now it seems to me that there possibly was a divergence of views on this and therefore we got an ambiguous statement but to me it says nothing will be handed over in June so that gives the members time to get the 10% and hold a general meeting.
    On that basis I shall write to VG asking for a meeting and keep paying my £10, after all if I don't I won't be a member and therefore can't ask for a meeting.
  • With respect I don't see how that statement says that no money will be handed over in June.
  • With respect I don't see how that statement says that no money will be handed over in June.

    No it doesn't, but, as Lancashire Lad points out - it is a statement issued by a committee that consists of (wildly) opposing views. Therefore, it is an unsatisfactory compromise and I imagine there was wrangling over it for a good length of time just to achieve what we have ended up with

    It isn't feasible for a member of that committee to then "clarify" it in a public forum, however much some would like to pretend they think it is a simple matter to do so.

    So you have to make your interpretation from what is written in the statement and from what you have read from RikOfOld on this and other threads over recent months.

    My interpretation of his position vis a vis the Duchatelet regime from his posts on CL is that he will rigorously protect VG contributions until he is satisfied that VG contributors would be comfortable with them being handed over.

    If people decide to curtail their contributions that is their choice. But please don't do it just because Rik is handcuffed by an agreed committee statement
  • rikofold said:

    stonemuse said:

    To be fair Rik, it's a fair question.

    The statement says:

    However, the supporters’ representatives felt that they could not overlook the concerns raised, and indicated that they would not consider any further major donations to the football club until later on in the year.

    That could mean payment will be made in June .... which, as you know, many of us do not want.

    It is a fair question and the longer Rich avoids it the more it seems that the answer is not one that you or I would like.

    That could be easily and quickly disproved by @rikofold giving a direct answer.

    We know he opposed the idea of withholding a payment in June and argued against it.
    I'm not avoiding the question, but the committee agreed a statement and it's not for me to make my own variation.

    What I will say is what Sharron has already said to you Henry - that it's reasonable to assume we're talking about the second half of the year. Make of that what you will, but as I say most people seem to have understood what the statement is saying.

    I'm not the enemy, try not to forget that everyone, but I am constrained by my role.
    But Sharon isn't a committee member, you are and I don't want to assume incorrectly.

    Answer the question.
    Henry, think u are being very harsh to at the reply you have been given - Rickfold has told you why he cannot reply to your request - accept it - we are all in this together some more than others - surely u can understand that!!
  • Waiting for a simple reply to a simple question. ....
  • Payment will be made 1st July, you can almost gurantee it.
  • Payment will be made 1st July, you can almost gurantee it.

    Perhaps meant lightheartedly, but really that is a ludicrous interpretation and disrespectful to the fans' reps.

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  • edited January 2016

    Payment will be made 1st July, you can almost gurantee it.

    Perhaps meant lightheartedly, but really that is a ludicrous interpretation and disrespectful to the fans' reps.

    Maybe light hearted or not, there is an easier way of finding out..........
    Are VG going to give money to the RD ownership or not ?
  • We're the Trust not there as observers!
  • How do you cancel your membership, do you have to go to the valley, or just talk to your bank & stop the standing order?
  • How do you cancel your membership, do you have to go to the valley, or just talk to your bank & stop the standing order?

    contact your bank,either on line or in person.
    contact, via email, valley gold.
  • RDG said:

    Just catching up on this. It's clear the membership needs to be fully consulted on withholding payment to the club. If I discover any more money is moving from VG into the coffers of the RD regime, then I'm afraid I'll have to cancel. No point in boycotting games if my cash is still going into his pockets via this route.

    Never won a penny, either. Bloody scandal that too!

    I agree, this is yet another communication shambles at best. At worst it is people in authority making decisions that should not be made without consulting with the Valley Gold members. Just send out a ballot asking the membership whether they want the June payment to be made. It's that simple
  • Sod it, cancelling now.
    If, after 17 days I can't get a simple answer to a simple question, why bother.

    Don't worry - I'll get the Fulham tickets
  • Cancellation of your subscription means less in the scheme and will lead to VG not being important to RD money wise, which in the end mean the end the whole thing......so let's keep in it provided not further payments are made to the club - What i would add is that VG members hold a meeting to discuss where donations should go if the current position with the owners does not change (Maybe payment to a separate account/the Trust) - just my thoughts......
  • As somebody who was particularly vocal and a bit hard on Rikofold on a previous thread, I think I do undertsand his message. I am happy to be corrected, but that is not that Valley Gold will pay the monies to the club later in the year, but will consider doing so. This is reasonable, if the conditions that force the original decision to change themselves change. I think it would have been helpful if that line was added to the message. That would be clear for the club, and would satisfy me as a member. I am, like others beyond angry at what this owner is doing to my club and that is why there are such strong feelings on here. I think an opportunity is now at hand to gauge the feelings of members to inform that later decision. I know that Rikofold isn't a supporter of the regime, so am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but the position taken has to reflect what the members want. We can find that out by just letting them walk away, but surely it is better to canvas opinion and keep them in. These are not just plain members, but people donating money, and that should never be forgotten. Henry's suggestion for a meeting would a) hopefully bring some more attention to the situation, and b) give members more of a chance to have a say. That is a way of ensuring members don't just leave, which I am as close to doing as I can possibly be. I think that is why Henry suggested it.
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