I’ve probably missed some of the finer details but is this proposal one of arming every teacher? If so what about the teachers who are anti-gun, who will never accept that schools should be institutions where guns are carried? Or what if the said teacher is a gentle, God-fearing, woman (or man), who’s never even held a gun let alone fired one at a hostile moving target? Unless Trump is planning to replace all such teachers with those who have the kind of mentality to use force when called upon then what is the point?
I’ve probably missed some of the finer details but is this proposal one of arming every teacher? If so what about the teachers who are anti-gun, who will never accept that schools should be institutions where guns are carried? Or what if the said teacher is a gentle, God-fearing, woman (or man), who’s never even held a gun let alone fired one at a hostile moving target? Unless Trump is planning to replace all such teachers with those who have the kind of mentality to use force then what is the point?
Any teacher who is not pro NRA should be sacked if they won't carry a gun - suggests they don't care about the kids.
I remember this being suggested 20 years ago when I was at school. My English teacher said it would be hard to fight the temptation to shoot the pupils.
There is absolutely zero point in arming teachers as the schools' lawyers will be saying that they shouldn't fire under any circumstances. If they did open fire then the school would be liable under any and all the following circumstances:
1) Teacher hits a pupil 2) Teacher kills the attacker, thus traumatising the kids 3) Teacher misses the attacker, thus allowing the attacker to kill kids 4) The teach doesn't kill the attacker, but successfully stops the attack, thus traumatising the kids, of harming the attacker who then sues.
There is practically no outcome of teachers being armed that won't result in a lawsuit against the school/teacher in the event of an attack. Any teacher who doesn't want to appear in court should make sure they haven't got a gun, otherwise they're just a target for lawyers looking to profit out of an incident.
In fact despite all the warnings beforehand the latest shooter blended into the crowd and got clean away, at least for a while. A teacher with a gun would have made no difference whatsoever.
Well maybe, maybe not. They might have ended up shooting the lad that looked a little like the shooter I linked the interview to a couple of pages back. Poor lad was still visibly shaken and upset talking about nearly getting shot by the SWAT team.
I have to say that I have been so, so, so fucking impressed by the kids who survived this shooting who have spoken so intelligently and eloquently about what happened to them, trying to make sure this never happens again. These are trauma survivors. And to do not only what they've done, but to do it at arguably the hardest moments in their lives absolutely floors me.
I am usually very cynical that gun restrictions are a generation or two away. These kids make me think I could be dead wrong about that.
I live in Atlanta and we have a 7 month old baby girl......I can't bare the thought of dropping my baby off to school in the not too distant future and be petrified of what might happen why she is there.
This is 2018 in America, surely this is not right?
I remember this being suggested 20 years ago when I was at school. My English teacher said it would be hard to fight the temptation to shoot the pupils.
Or an angry kid get a hold of one.
They will probably have to be kept locked away to prevent this from happening which defeats the object of having them in the first place.
A small and not very bright child could point out the glaring folly of this ridiculous idea. Unfortunately, crooked Donald and his NRA paymasters have only the filling of their pockets to concern them, so the small child's good advice won't be heard.
If the shooter is a student or an ex student, the teacher would of seen this kid grow up. They would know a fair bit about them; they would have a relationship with this kid. When they see them walk into the classroom carrying a rifle, will they reach for a gun? Or will they ask the kid what`s wrong? Let’s talk about it! Teachers care about their students, I don`t think they would make a snap judgement and just shoot. No matter how much protection training they`ve had.
"Excuse me 42 year old, junior school teacher Ms McKenzie, but, there's a jacked up 18 year old teenager rampaging through the school with an assault rifle and pump action shot gun in a Kevlar vest, can you take your handgun out of the locked drawer in your desk and stop him please? ta"
So what if the teacher does not want a gun? Not hired?
Where do they put the guns? In a holster where a kid could grab it? In a safe they have to find the key for when panicking rather than trying to shepherd the kids to a safe area? Is the safe going to be completely safe/kid proof?
Imagine they actually do want a gun, and manage to get to it in time to use it then what? They shoot the wrong kid? The shooter shoots them and gets their gun too? The police turn up and don’t know who the bad guy is?
All of the above issues not even including the whole, what if the teacher loses it one day and decides to go loco themselves?
America has a huge population and is swimming in guns, even bringing in controls would take generations to collect them in and off the streets; add to that a pourous border with Central/South America where guns would flow readily if wanted. There is no easy way out of the situation they have created but gun controls are needed to start that long road and likely airport style security stopping kids with guns far enough out of school with maybe an armed security guard or security door which can be readily shut may help in the meantime?
I saw on the news Trump's comments at the meeting with the school kids (and parents) - how the dad who just lost his daughter didn't deck him when he came out with the "we'll arm the teachers" is beyond me. If I was there I would have just shouted at him "have you not been listening to anything we've just said ? The answer is LESS guns, not MORE !"
Also, is it not a contradiction that the NRA stands for the National RIFLE Association ?? Just tell them that everyone can bare a bolt action RIFLE - something that you have to re-load & no semi automatics.
He believe's "Shooters won't walk into a school if 20% of people have guns."
"Anyone adjudicated as mentally incompetent or dangerous to society should be prevented from getting a gun," said Mr Trump
Both statements clearly ignore the point that someone who's mentally ill isn't going to worry about being shot at and most likely happy to die whilst shooting others.
On Twitter he promised to push for national background checks for the mentally ill, a policy which the NRA chief later echoed at the conference. Strangely he could end up doing more on this issue than any previous president.
Having just read the armed officer assigned to the Florida school, did not intervene in the shooting and stayed outside. This obviously echoes the pointed that giving a school teacher a gun as a defense doesnt mean they'll fire it.
Having just read the armed officer assigned to the Florida school, did not intervene in the shooting and stayed outside. This obviously echoes the pointed that giving a school teacher a gun as a defense doesnt mean they'll fire it.
That can't possibly be true because "To stop a bad guy with a gun, it takes a good guy with a gun.”
I have a lot of friends who went to Santa Monica College. I took classes there in high school I used to play footy there with some regularity. I had completely forgotten this happened.
I have a lot of friends who went to Santa Monica College. I took classes there in high school I used to play footy there with some regularity. I had completely forgotten this happened.
It was featured on the Sky Atlantic series Active Shooter recently, which is why I remembered it.
I was quite shocked that someone could just order all the necessary parts and create their own weapon.
"Anyone adjudicated as mentally incompetent or dangerous to society should be prevented from becoming President of the United States of America," said everyone
Having just read the armed officer assigned to the Florida school, did not intervene in the shooting and stayed outside. This obviously echoes the pointed that giving a school teacher a gun as a defense doesnt mean they'll fire it.
That can't possibly be true because "To stop a bad guy with a gun, it takes a good guy with a gun.”
I also find it kind of ironic that it is a 'draft dodger' who is suggesting that others should be prepared put themselves in the firing line.
His latest comments and reaction plumb new depths.
Yes. He must be the only one who can't see the irony of it. Digging out the guy who was was supposed to "take down" the armed shooter, not realising that probsbly all other "guards" would prob do the same thing & he's just advocated more of the same.
Even though it is hard to buy a gun in the UK we are only the 41st safe 'country' in the world. Iceland is top, probably because hardly anyone lives there. Providing guns for teachers is not going to make schools safer. It will however ratchet up the fear factor and make school environments more scary. There are no easy answers to the gun control issue as there are already far too many guns in private hands. I think making ammunition extremely hard to buy would help but what do I know?
Even though it is hard to buy a gun in the UK we are only the 41st safe 'country' in the world. Iceland is top, probably because hardly anyone lives there. Providing guns for teachers is not going to make schools safer. It will however ratchet up the fear factor and make school environments more scary. There are no easy answers to the gun control issue as there are already far too many guns in private hands. I think making ammunition extremely hard to buy would help but what do I know?
The only meaningful statistic is firearm related deaths per capita. On a list I've seen and by that measure we are the 8th safest country. The death rate per capita in Iceland is five times that of the UK.
Comments
More guns equates to more safety. FACT
Not a single armed teacher in sight.
Worrying.
https://theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/22/nra-wayne-lapierre-gun-control-cpac-speech-2018
I am usually very cynical that gun restrictions are a generation or two away. These kids make me think I could be dead wrong about that.
This is 2018 in America, surely this is not right?
They will probably have to be kept locked away to prevent this from happening which defeats the object of having them in the first place.
They would know a fair bit about them; they would have a relationship with this kid.
When they see them walk into the classroom carrying a rifle, will they reach for a gun?
Or will they ask the kid what`s wrong? Let’s talk about it!
Teachers care about their students, I don`t think they would make a snap judgement and just shoot.
No matter how much protection training they`ve had.
"Excuse me 42 year old, junior school teacher Ms McKenzie, but, there's a jacked up 18 year old teenager rampaging through the school with an assault rifle and pump action shot gun in a Kevlar vest, can you take your handgun out of the locked drawer in your desk and stop him please? ta"
Fucks sake America.....
Where do they put the guns? In a holster where a kid could grab it? In a safe they have to find the key for when panicking rather than trying to shepherd the kids to a safe area? Is the safe going to be completely safe/kid proof?
Imagine they actually do want a gun, and manage to get to it in time to use it then what? They shoot the wrong kid? The shooter shoots them and gets their gun too? The police turn up and don’t know who the bad guy is?
All of the above issues not even including the whole, what if the teacher loses it one day and decides to go loco themselves?
America has a huge population and is swimming in guns, even bringing in controls would take generations to collect them in and off the streets; add to that a pourous border with Central/South America where guns would flow readily if wanted. There is no easy way out of the situation they have created but gun controls are needed to start that long road and likely airport style security stopping kids with guns far enough out of school with maybe an armed security guard or security door which can be readily shut may help in the meantime?
Also, is it not a contradiction that the NRA stands for the National RIFLE Association ?? Just tell them that everyone can bare a bolt action RIFLE - something that you have to re-load & no semi automatics.
He believe's "Shooters won't walk into a school if 20% of people have guns."
"Anyone adjudicated as mentally incompetent or dangerous to society should be prevented from getting a gun," said Mr Trump
Both statements clearly ignore the point that someone who's mentally ill isn't going to worry about being shot at and most likely happy to die whilst shooting others.
On Twitter he promised to push for national background checks for the mentally ill, a policy which the NRA chief later echoed at the conference. Strangely he could end up doing more on this issue than any previous president.
Having just read the armed officer assigned to the Florida school, did not intervene in the shooting and stayed outside. This obviously echoes the pointed that giving a school teacher a gun as a defense doesnt mean they'll fire it.
"It was also learned that the California Department of Justice advised Zawahri in an October 2011 letter that he was ineligible to purchase a firearm"
"Zawahri was armed with an AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle, which he put together himself from legally purchased components"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Santa_Monica_shooting
I have a lot of friends who went to Santa Monica College. I took classes there in high school I used to play footy there with some regularity. I had completely forgotten this happened.
I was quite shocked that someone could just order all the necessary parts and create their own weapon.