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  • Interesting times as the Chinese Curse says.

    Easy to "mistake" some rebels or Kurds for ISIS
  • must be in agreement with NATO a.k.a. the USA, all the 'big' nations seem to have come to an agreement that Assad is a better bet running that neck of the woods than any other bunch of murderous extremists .. watch out ISIS .. remember what the Russians did in Chechnya ..
  • edited September 2015
    Syria is Russia's foothold in the Middle East. The only port the Russians have in the Mediterranean is Tartus in Syria. They back Assad to maintain both. I think the west is only too happy that Putin will not have the same problems at home in a policy of bombing IS or indeed escalating that to "boots on the ground" should it become necessary. Putin supports a friendly regime and the west gets its dirty work done for them.
  • An enemy's enemy is your friend...
  • oh dear, ISIS slaughter levels barely register compared to Assad's, now the Russians will be bombing the Kurds and those fighting against Assad, denying it of course. How did it come to this (rhetorical).
  • Interesting times as the Chinese Curse says.

    Easy to "mistake" some rebels or Kurds for ISIS

    Very easy. For Russia, it wouldn't be a mistake - Assad is their ally, anyone against Assad is their enemy.

    Expect the flow of refugees to increase.
  • Wonderful. So the poor fuckers in Syria get the ever loving shit tarred out of them by Assad, but nobody gives a fuck until there's a tenuous threat to people outside the middle east via crackpot ideology, and now we're left with the spectacle of PoohTin indiscriminately bombing the country back to the stone age, then handing it back to Assad to complete genocide.

    This world's completely fucked
  • Wonderful. So the poor fuckers in Syria get the ever loving shit tarred out of them by Assad, but nobody gives a fuck until there's a tenuous threat to people outside the middle east via crackpot ideology, and now we're left with the spectacle of PoohTin indiscriminately bombing the country back to the stone age, then handing it back to Assad to complete genocide.

    This world's completely fucked

    He'll have to be quick. IS are trying to get it back to the Stone Age and seem to be doing it very well.

  • Something has to give here. Sad as it seems, we need Putin as bad as it may seem.
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  • IA said:

    masicat said:

    Something has to give here. Sad as it seems, we need Putin as bad as it may seem.

    Who is this "we" ?
    I agree with maiscat. Putin can do the west's dirty work for them. Obama and the other western powers cannot get involved in taking the war to IS. It's just too politically hot. At some point IS will need to be stopped. Putin has the means, the will and the support at home to do it whilst all the time securing Russia's place in the Middle East.

  • masicat said:

    Something has to give here. Sad as it seems, we need Putin as bad as it may seem.

    I don't.
  • IA said:

    masicat said:

    Something has to give here. Sad as it seems, we need Putin as bad as it may seem.

    Who is this "we" ?
    Me and my opinion.
  • masicat said:

    IA said:

    masicat said:

    Something has to give here. Sad as it seems, we need Putin as bad as it may seem.

    Who is this "we" ?
    Me and my opinion.
    OK.

    I don't need Putin to protect me, thanks.
  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.
  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    But at what price?

    And who pays that price? The Free Syrian?

    Or the Kurds who've been defeating ISIS on the ground?

    Yes it is realpolitik but it still doesn't sit well.
  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    But at what price?

    And who pays that price? The Free Syrian?

    Or the Kurds who've been defeating ISIS on the ground?

    Yes it is realpolitik but it still doesn't sit well.
    Totally agree. It's always the innocent that suffer. The Kurds will be collateral damage in crushing IS and propping up the tyrant Assad. The west will tut tut but are complicit in clearing the way for Putin to take action.

  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    But at what price?

    And who pays that price? The Free Syrian?

    Or the Kurds who've been defeating ISIS on the ground?

    Yes it is realpolitik but it still doesn't sit well.
    Totally agree. It's always the innocent that suffer. The Kurds will be collateral damage in crushing IS and propping up the tyrant Assad. The west will tut tut but are complicit in clearing the way for Putin to take action.

    And you think Putin won't extract a price from the West for this, if he succeeds?

    The current Russian State is the most threatening on the planet to Western values. It has resources which dwarf those of ISIS or other terrorist groups.

    Read Bill Browder, Edward Lucas, Luke Harding. etc, etc. And remember Alexander Litvinenko. Murdered in London, in a barbaric manner which put thousands of Londoners at risk.
  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    I think you're missing my point.

    I don't need Putin to protect me from ISIS. You might need him, I don't. I am not afraid of ISIS.

    I am certainly not willing to trade Kurdish lives for my protection. Please don't include me in your "we".
  • IA said:

    Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    I think you're missing my point.

    I don't need Putin to protect me from ISIS. You might need him, I don't. I am not afraid of ISIS.

    I am certainly not willing to trade Kurdish lives for my protection. Please don't include me in your "we".
    Well they scare the shit out of me.

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  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    But at what price?

    And who pays that price? The Free Syrian?

    Or the Kurds who've been defeating ISIS on the ground?

    Yes it is realpolitik but it still doesn't sit well.
    Totally agree. It's always the innocent that suffer. The Kurds will be collateral damage in crushing IS and propping up the tyrant Assad. The west will tut tut but are complicit in clearing the way for Putin to take action.

    And you think Putin won't extract a price from the West for this, if he succeeds?

    The current Russian State is the most threatening on the planet to Western values. It has resources which dwarf those of ISIS or other terrorist groups.

    Read Bill Browder, Edward Lucas, Luke Harding. etc, etc. And remember Alexander Litvinenko. Murdered in London, in a barbaric manner which put thousands of Londoners at risk.
    I'm sure that Obama and Putin have already discussed the whole thing at length.

    I disagree that Russia are a bigger threat to western values than IS. A threat yes but one that can be faced down. The west is in an impossible position with Islamic State. It wants and knows it needs to crush them but cannot get involved. Putin has solved that problem. At what price is yet to be seen.

  • until the Corbynistas get rid of Trident that is..
  • The world was such a simpler and safer place when we had our Empire!
  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    But at what price?

    And who pays that price? The Free Syrian?

    Or the Kurds who've been defeating ISIS on the ground?

    Yes it is realpolitik but it still doesn't sit well.
    Totally agree. It's always the innocent that suffer. The Kurds will be collateral damage in crushing IS and propping up the tyrant Assad. The west will tut tut but are complicit in clearing the way for Putin to take action.

    And you think Putin won't extract a price from the West for this, if he succeeds?

    The current Russian State is the most threatening on the planet to Western values. It has resources which dwarf those of ISIS or other terrorist groups.

    Read Bill Browder, Edward Lucas, Luke Harding. etc, etc. And remember Alexander Litvinenko. Murdered in London, in a barbaric manner which put thousands of Londoners at risk.
    Muslim extremists murdered and maimed scores of Londoners 10 years ago. And Muslim extremists still poise a massive and growing threat to Londoners.

    By comparison I would say Russia poises zero threat to my life and my values. I don't see much difference between Western and Russian values. Especially when compared to the values of ISIS or indeed any Muslim country.
    Well when I said "Western values" I was kind of thinking of more than one individual British citizen. But never mind. I'd just ask you to bear in mind that Russia is not a democracy, never has been, and is a nuclear power with huge resources at its disposal. And it has a chip on its shoulder. It's that chip on its shoulder that is driving the activity that this thread discusses.
  • Why is it too politically hot for the west to do anything about IS? (Not being facetious, I really don't know my politics!)
  • edited September 2015
    Let the Russians get on with it I say.

    Why shouldn't they support their ally?
    Just because 'we' back the rebels doesn't mean what Russia is doing is wrong.
  • Think people are missing the point here. Putin is an odious pimp but he's the only man on the planet that can stop IS with impunity to political fallout. It's why Obama and the other western leaders have suddenly changed their tack on Assad. Opening the door for Russia to help their Middle Eastern ally, stop IS into the bargain and solve the west's inability to do what is required for fear of political backlash. He's not doing it to protect us but it's a very satisfying spinoff.

    But at what price?

    And who pays that price? The Free Syrian?

    Or the Kurds who've been defeating ISIS on the ground?

    Yes it is realpolitik but it still doesn't sit well.
    Totally agree. It's always the innocent that suffer. The Kurds will be collateral damage in crushing IS and propping up the tyrant Assad. The west will tut tut but are complicit in clearing the way for Putin to take action.

    And you think Putin won't extract a price from the West for this, if he succeeds?

    The current Russian State is the most threatening on the planet to Western values. It has resources which dwarf those of ISIS or other terrorist groups.

    Read Bill Browder, Edward Lucas, Luke Harding. etc, etc. And remember Alexander Litvinenko. Murdered in London, in a barbaric manner which put thousands of Londoners at risk.
    Muslim extremists murdered and maimed scores of Londoners 10 years ago. And Muslim extremists still poise a massive and growing threat to Londoners.

    By comparison I would say Russia poises zero threat to my life and my values. I don't see much difference between Western and Russian values. Especially when compared to the values of ISIS or indeed any Muslim country.
    Well when I said "Western values" I was kind of thinking of more than one individual British citizen. But never mind. I'd just ask you to bear in mind that Russia is not a democracy, never has been, and is a nuclear power with huge resources at its disposal. And it has a chip on its shoulder. It's that chip on its shoulder that is driving the activity that this thread discusses.
    I was trying to respond to your point about Russia being a threat to Londoners. I, as a Londoner (and I think I can speak for many Londoners) feel no threat whatsoever from Russia.

    Yes, Russia is not and has never been a democracy. But I would say we in the west still share many values with the people and government of Russia.
  • MrOneLung said:

    Let the Russians get on with it I say.

    Why shouldn't they support their ally?
    Just because 'we' back the rebels doesn't mean what Russia is doing is wrong.

    My understanding is that he is supporting a dictator, and smashing down the uprising against the dictator. Bombing the people fighting for a democratic government... I'm not remotely clever enough to comment really, I don't even know if that's all true... but that sounds pretty bad to me. There's no guarantee he's even interested in touching IS anyway, right?
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