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T20 Franchise Cricket

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  • All for it. As long as we follow the same rules as IPL it will definitely benefit English cricket. Something like :

    You are allowed 4 overseas players in your starting 11. The other 7 must all be English, at least 1 of which must be uncapped by England.

    The fans get to see the beat players in the world & English players get to play with them and learn from them.
  • Shame there are still a load of Ostriches around.i'll pick them up on my square-wheeled chariot to see England get slaughtered......again.

    I'm happy to reconsider my position if you can come up with a reasonable counter argument to the points I raised Pres'. And you can explain how fewer English players and more foreign players will stop England get[ting] slaughtered again. Hasn't exactly worked well with football?
    Take yer point Algarve. However, i just believe that it has to be for the benefit of England, for example 1) look at India post IPL - they have got stronger and better at it. 2) if you were to consider the South London team, which could be Kent and Surrey, then you would have 22 players to pick from , you could ditch the plodders who bowl at 70 mph , you could ditch the non-spinning spinners, have the best batsmen from the 2 teams, add in a couple of international 20/20 stars, and the quality of the team would rise along with the quality of the player available to play for England - my view is that anyone who doesnt want change is quite obviously happy to watch a sub-stadard product with c-list overseas players and is quite content to watch England get eliminated at first hurdle of the tournos forever.You cant resist change - it has to happen for the benefit of England.
    Well, there have been five T20 world cups, and five different winners. India won the first one in 2007, the IPL was founded a year later - they have not won it since.

    England on the other hand, won in 2010.

    So the evidence would suggest that the IPL has done Indian T20 cricket no favours at all - in fact it has gone backwards since the introduction of the IPL.

    I had a quick look at Chennai on Wiki (yeah, I know...) and it shows that out of 47 players they have had just 22 who are Indian, how is that helping Indian cricket? Again - a similar scenario has had no positive effect on English football whatsoever.

    I would also be interested to hear your take on the other points I raised Pres?

  • Not a fan of T20 in the slightest, it just isn't cricket to me.

    If it brings money to counties and attracts new fans then that's all good and well but the priority has to be improving the national side at test level, something which we seemed to have cracked a few years ago but now see ourselves back at square one!

    I can't see how merging counties can help.
  • Interesting ... but its the only way forward
  • Shame there are still a load of Ostriches around.i'll pick them up on my square-wheeled chariot to see England get slaughtered......again.

    So anyone who doesn't agree with you is an ostrich? That's a well reasoned argument.

    Presumably you'd also be in favour of us merging with Millwall for the same reasons you've given, eg bigger squad of players, filling the ground, etc? Cos that would be progress, wouldn't it?
  • Off_it said:

    Shame there are still a load of Ostriches around.i'll pick them up on my square-wheeled chariot to see England get slaughtered......again.

    So anyone who doesn't agree with you is an ostrich? That's a well reasoned argument.

    Presumably you'd also be in favour of us merging with Millwall for the same reasons you've given, eg bigger squad of players, filling the ground, etc? Cos that would be progress, wouldn't it?
    No malice intended Offy, just my general view that we have had our heads in the sand for so long as far as cricket is concerned in this country - its time for change - else cricket will die, as an example, arent Kents finances in a mess?

    Now, us merging with Millwall - now thats just going toooooo far.!
  • Not for me thanks. None of the Northants team that actually won the tournament two years ago would have even got a sniff of being in the City of Nottingham or Birmingham squad if they were in the business of bidding for top international players to play.

    There's the question of who pays those un-selected players wages while they are sitting around during the best weather missing out on the best pitches too?

    And having the crescendo of the season about a month before it actually ends sounds a bit odd to me?

    ok, finally got around to your questions Algarve.

    I think you would probably find that th likes of Willey would certainly be in the Nottingham team, and maybe one of two others from Northants.

    With the un-selected players, maybe there could be a reserve or 'B' league - lots to be sorted out re those players though.

    If the tourno was to be run from , say, end July to 2nd week in September, then that is virtaully at end of season - have maybe only the other finals to play after and then season is wrapped up.
  • Good discussion on SKy this morning with Athers/Bumble/James Taylor/Jawardene discussing how T20 Crciket shoudl change in this country and what we need to do to *maybe* emulate IPL and Big Bash.
    Bumble was of the view that we should have a 5 week period during the school holidays of T20 a la Big Bash with each team having 4 'A' list overseas players - with maybe a finals weekend starting on Friday night at Lords and Oval with final on the Sunday.

    If you get a chance, watch it on catchup.
  • After listening to Podcast this morning with Simon Hughes/James Taylor and the people involved in the start of the Womens Franchise Cricket league, it seems that the mens equivalent is not far away - Hughes suggesting that the non_Test playing counties are 'not viable' in their current structure and that change has to take place, with the likelihood of a 4/5 week August based comp in the style of IPL and Big Bash with 4 overseas players - current Test grounds are Lords (North London), Oval (South London) , Edgbaston (Birmingham), OT (Manchester),Swalec (Cardiff),Trent Bridge (Nottingham),Ageas (Southampton),County Ground (Newcastle) and Headingley (Leeds), with possibly The Olympic Stadium also playing some part too- the crowds at the Womens games so far have shown there is a vast appaetite for this type of cricket , with attendances far exceeding their expectations, even for the womens game.

    Bring it on !
  • I really hope this doesn't happen. t20 at the Oval is crap. Would never go there again whether it be Surrey or South London, I will go to Canterbury, Hove or any other ground where they like cricket.
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  • redman said:

    I really hope this doesn't happen. t20 at the Oval is crap. Would never go there again whether it be Surrey or South London, I will go to Canterbury, Hove or any other ground where they like cricket.

    Agreed, took my dad to a t20 Surrey vs Kent a few years ago on a Friday night, I'd say only 25% were there to watch the cricket, the rest were just there to get smashed with their work lot. Bloody frustrating when you've constantly got people standing in front of you handing out their round of beers around them.
  • Must admit, do agree about the type of crowds you get at The Oval for T20 - but also, i went to Hove to see Sussex play Hampshire a couple of years ago, and it was just as bad, if not worse -( so much so, that i went to the Police and complained (as there was disgusting language and drunken behaviour around my kids) , and amazingly, they even went to the main culprits and had a word).
  • Agreed, took my dad to a t20 Surrey vs Kent a few years ago on a Friday night, I'd say only 25% were there to watch the cricket, the rest were just there to get smashed with their work lot.
    Sounds like a 'City Addicks' evening?
  • LenGlover said:

    No thank you as far as I am concerned.

    It's the cricketing equivalent of MK Dons.

    It really isn't.
  • edited August 2016

    Shame there are still a load of Ostriches around.i'll pick them up on my square-wheeled chariot to see England get slaughtered......again.

    I'm happy to reconsider my position if you can come up with a reasonable counter argument to the points I raised Pres'. And you can explain how fewer English players and more foreign players will stop England get[ting] slaughtered again. Hasn't exactly worked well with football?
    Take yer point Algarve. However, i just believe that it has to be for the benefit of England, for example 1) look at India post IPL - they have got stronger and better at it. 2) if you were to consider the South London team, which could be Kent and Surrey, then you would have 22 players to pick from , you could ditch the plodders who bowl at 70 mph , you could ditch the non-spinning spinners, have the best batsmen from the 2 teams, add in a couple of international 20/20 stars, and the quality of the team would rise along with the quality of the player available to play for England - my view is that anyone who doesnt want change is quite obviously happy to watch a sub-stadard product with c-list overseas players and is quite content to watch England get eliminated at first hurdle of the tournos forever.You cant resist change - it has to happen for the benefit of England.
    You mean like the T20 world cup where we've won it once and been losing finalists once (which we should have won) out of the 5 T20 world cups that have been held? Seems like our T20 is plenty strong enough without massive upheaval to the domestic competition. This isn't about England, this is about money for the test hosting counties, nothing more, nothing less. I heard on the radio the other day that the existing counties would be share holders, so wouldn't lose out. That means South London would be 50% owned by Surrey, and 50% by Kent. Then Surrey would get to bill the franchise for use of their facilities, get free advertisement to all the fans who turn up and the word Kent would appear no where. Franchises will spell the end of county cricket as we know it and will mean the route from school to county leagues, to counties to England will be severed irreparably. And once the counties are significantly weakened we'll have little to no 4 day cricket and that will mean no test players.

    Franchises will spell the end of England as a test force, so if you want a never ending buffet of one day and T20 fast food, where huge swathes of the country go from having top quality cricket close by to having to travel hours into a big city and paying double for the privilege, then franchises are fine.

  • Surrey are dead against it. They don't want to share their money with anybody!
  • edited August 2016
    It does annoy me when they use the Big Bash as justification for starting their city-based T20 over here. Cricket in Australia and UK are completely different. The Sheffield Shield has only 7 teams, that makes for just 15 first class games all season. Its no surprise the Big Bash was such a success given the rarity of top quality matches.

    The ECB are going to wreck county cricket in their desperate scramble for more TV money.
  • edited August 2016
    Yep, the Aussie big bash increased accessibility by having more teams in more locations playing more games and being on terrestrial TV. A franchise system here would have fewer games in fewer locations and almost certainly be on Sky (the ECB have proved time and time again they'll take more cash now over long term growth of the game).

    Every cricket fan in a county not lucky enough to be one of the chosen few is basically being told by the ECB that they aren't wanted, that if they want to watch T20 they will have to travel at least twice as far, pay at least twice as much and have fewer games to watch. Have they been taking tips from KM on how to throw away fans? But apparently pointing this out makes me an ostrich.
  • I don't see why the Franchise system should be any scapegoat for any perceived demise of 4 day county cricket - in actual fact, I see the opposite, it would allow the likes of Kent,Derbyshire,Leicestershire to survive financially and therefore be the counties where maybe they specialise in 4 day cricket which would be played around the Franchise T20- and therefore maybe pay their players a little more than before. You only have to look at the success of IPL and Big Bash (however much you might not want to) to see how this improves the all-round cricket in these countries (Oz are no 1 and India are No 2 in the Test rankings).
    Saying that England have been in 2 finals in past 10 years is incongruous - the rest of the time you have to admit our limited overs cricket in big tournos has been nothing less than appalling.
    Also, with the influx of top quality overseas players the quality of the cricket will get much better thus providing England with better players to select from- lets be honest, I'd rather watch Malinga coming in to bowl at Gayle than Stevens to Cobb - wouldn't you?

    The indications are that should Franshise cricket not be forthcoming, then the there may not even be the likes of Kent/Derby/Northants around in ten years time due to the losses they seem to incur every season nowadays .
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  • Also, with the influx of top quality overseas players the quality of the cricket will get much better thus providing England with better players to select from- lets be honest, I'd rather watch Malinga coming in to bowl at Gayle than Stevens to Cobb - wouldn't you?


    This sort of argument is used by the Premier League and the England football team is now just about the worst its ever been.

  • edited August 2016
    Missed It said:


    Also, with the influx of top quality overseas players the quality of the cricket will get much better thus providing England with better players to select from- lets be honest, I'd rather watch Malinga coming in to bowl at Gayle than Stevens to Cobb - wouldn't you?


    This sort of argument is used by the Premier League and the England football team is now just about the worst its ever been.

    Agree with you on that. Once the Ryder Cup is finished, my Sky subscription is being cancelled as a protest to the England performance in the Euros, and also The Ashes next year are being shown on BT Sport.
  • iaitch said:

    Hands down from me, its just to generate money nothing to do with the well being of sport.

    See Premiership as an example.

    Yep, the Aussie big bash increased accessibility by having more teams in more locations playing more games and being on terrestrial TV. A franchise system here would have fewer games in fewer locations and almost certainly be on Sky (the ECB have proved time and time again they'll take more cash now over long term growth of the game).

    Every cricket fan in a county not lucky enough to be one of the chosen few is basically being told by the ECB that they aren't wanted, that if they want to watch T20 they will have to travel at least twice as far, pay at least twice as much and have fewer games to watch. Have they been taking tips from KM on how to throw away fans? But apparently pointing this out makes me an ostrich.

    Agree with all of this and more.

    Also young English players are less likely to be given a chance. Less teams, more overseas 'talent' (big names who can't be arsed) means less opportunities for young English players.

    Look at the Currans both got their chances in T20 cricket at a young age. Sam last year, Tom the year before (maybe one or two games the year before that)

    They were previously unheard of. Anyone gonna tell me they would have got a contract in a franchise system? No chance. And they have both used it as a platform to be eased into all formats of County cricket and look at the players they have become.

    So many players like them will miss out on that opportunity to break through and get seen. Yet old and past it players from overseas would get a contract easy. I can guarantee you that Cook Bell Trott Compton Ballance etc will get franchise contracts. Yet they have zero chance of playing limited overs cricket for England ever again and frankly never should have.

    Tell me how that benefits england cricket?

    The idea that our current t20 harms the international one went out the window der in the last year or so. It was used as an excuse for poor international limited overs performance when we didn't want to admit that the coaches weren't right for that format and they had the wrong ideas, wrong system and wrong players. That's all changed now we are competitive in limited overs cricket we have the right approach and we reached the final in the most recent tournament.

    Franchise cricket does not suit England.
  • To be fair, the one competition that seems to becoming obsolete is the 50 over tournament. It's not drawing in the crowds and, from what I hear, is not liked by the T20 fans or fans of the longer form. Maybe, it could be reduced to a quick knock out competition or something if we have to have more T20 so that beer sales rise and Sky money comes pouring in. I am disappointed that next year sees the County Championship reducing by 2 games with a top division of 8 teams and a lopsided second division of 10 teams playing 14 matches.
  • Wouldn't it end up as the same players playing in the IPL then Caribbean PL, then the Big Bash, then the SA equivalent and then the UK version?

  • edited August 2016
    iaitch said:

    Wouldn't it end up as the same players playing in the IPL then Caribbean PL, then the Big Bash, then the SA equivalent and then the UK version?

    Of course you would have the main players like ABDV,Gayle,Warner,Starc,Malinga,Kohli,Brathwaite - however, I cant see how you would have all the third rate Ozzie players who play in the IPL like Blizzard,Henriques etc - it wouldn't all be the same players because English conditions would suit some players better than others and you would more likely see the likes of Mustafizur etc - but surely the whole point of it is to create an exciting competition in which there is a) entertainment b) A better product and c) producing better England players.
    I totally and utterly reject the notion that it would not help English cricket across all formats - why shouldn't it ? - As I said before it hasn't exactly knocked back Oz and India has it? - that idea is total rubbish.
    Also, the thing about the Currans ? - that also is a non -argument - these kids would have been identified at age of 13/14/15 as being stars - not just because of the fact they were able to get in the Surrey team because there was no-one else in last couple of years - do you really think they wouldn't have been identified as one of the best 7 South London players ? Of course they would have.

    Imagine the South London team being...
    ABDV(would bring along all the Saffers)
    Roy
    DBD
    Kohli(would bring along all Indians)
    Billings (would bring along all the caravans)
    S Curran
    T Curran
    Ansari
    Blake
    Starc
    Yasir Shah

    Are you telling me that the likes of Roy,DBD,Billings,Currans,Ansari and Blake wouldn't benefit by playing/training and being around the likes of ABDV,Kohli,Starc and Shah ??????? Of course they bloody would - anybody who says different is clearly mental.

    I'd certainly go along to see the likes of that team.Wouldnt you? - forget the nostalgia and rubbish notions of destroying county cricket - or, no doubt you would rather go and see Darren Stevens bowl at one end to Cobb and Masters bowl at the other end to Tom Smith ????? I know which one I'd rather watch.

    I really feel like I'm back on the Peninsular New Stadium thread here where I just cant 'get' why people want to stand in the way of progress - I don't understand it. Must be an English thing.
  • Change is not the same as progress.
  • edited August 2016
    Missed It said:

    Change is not the same as progress.

    Are you telling me that the likes of Roy,DBD,Billings,Currans,Ansari and Blake wouldn't 'progress' their game playing with these guys ??
  • Imagine the North London team being...

    Malan
    Mccullum
    Finch
    Westley
    Morgan
    Bopara
    Brathwaite
    Ten Doeschate
    Roland-Jones
    Finn
    Malinga

    2 cracking teams where all the England and fringe players could learn.
  • Tbf though it's not like our limited overs sides are struggling at the moment so I don't see the argument that it will help England. I do think something needs to be done in regards to the domestic game though. Too many counties are just scraping by, I just don't know if franchise T20 is the way to do it.
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