Nope Kent see because we have been Here before under Murray and although people bitched and moaned they never got this angry or put off
Me I wanted to burn his office down and kick it off outside, because I found him more of an issue in the end in the way he shit on those close to him and between him and pv can't remember exactly what one lied about who.has going to get the gig after pardont
What's the difference now with the lies, the shit players not worthy of the badge, no heart no desire no guts, no leadership a weak manager
I will support Cousins and Solly throughout their careers - as I will Shelvey - they are ours. When Cousins kissed the badge it meant something to me because it meant something to him. I wish we had a team of Cousins and Sollys.
I feel a sense of being at something of a crossroads.
What I can't work out is whether the reason is solely events at Charlton or events in my life generally.
I didn't tick a like to this comment because I hope your life improves whatever happens at Charlton Len .
I do think you have hit on something though .
On my Tivo box I record ITV4 repeats of classic Big Matches. Currently they are going through the last throes of the 1982/83 season . Charlton barely feature but Jim Rosenthail does a round up of the London clubs . I find myself becoming nostalgic for that season even though in truth we were as comparably bad then as we are now . The football is not as skilful or tactically aware as today but somehow I find the games entertaining. Brian Moore is better than the slick presenters of today .
The thread about 1980/81 makes me feel even sadder .That team was primarily London based. Steve Gritt seemed out of place coming from Bournemouth with Derek Hales and Dick Tydeman representing our Kentish heritage . I really related to that team in a way it is difficult to most of today's players. This is why the constant criticism of Morgan Fox on here annoys me .Johnnie Jackson is another exception , he does seem to care .
I hate the new breed of chairmen involved with modern football . Chelsea and Manchester City epitomize my disillusionment . Their owners have raised the bar of entry even in the second tier to the Billionaire class . It is in this context that I feel disillusioned . Had they not ruined our game Roland and his network would never have come to the Valley.
So what is Roland trying to do ? On one level I do feel it is bewildering and am frustrated as everyone else that our early season promise has fallen away . I can't work out the rationale behind Luzon's appointment for example especially when he had rejected 4 of our first team squad in Liege . On another level I do have sympathy that he is trying to bring the economics of football into some sort of reality .Even Berylson at Millwall voted against FFP and has financially bailed out Holloway yet again by bringing in 8 new players .This is the market in which we operate .
So it is modern football I hate . I still love Charlton and hope we survive this season but I will attend the VIP Q&A and the public meeting .I do have big concerns . I just hope it has a clear focus and objectives are set which will move us forward. A season ticket boycott might kill our club completely . It was those of us that continued to go to Sell out Park who ultimately kept the club alive.
Was it? - I was one of them but the club was not sustainable at Selhurst. Maybe it was as it provided some income, but it was also those who didn't go that kept our club alive too! Because it because clear we had to leave for the future of the club.
Len's comments and Richard's response, point to a wider context in which our current troubles are taking place. Charlton were lucky in some respects as we rode a crest of a football wave through the nineties; went back to the Valley, then experienced the post-Euro '96 popularity trend, then got premiership football. There was some good strategic management through that period, where Alwen, then PV, AC and fans were broadly pulling in the same direction. The share issue in 92 meant we could literally buy in to the strategic plan. This helped to fund ground development and youth player development and retention. 'Doing a Charlton' was what a lot of clubs aspired to.
Things changed for us post-Curbs. And at around the time Football moved on too. Investment money and TV interests flooded in and we have seen some colossal foreign investment at the top of the leagues. Clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Cardiff, Coventry, Wimbledon have suffered most. We're riding the downwards wave now, no longer one of the rising clubs when the overall stock of English football was rising. Rich clubs have gotten richer and weaker clubs have struggled. We have seen a large number of new grounds, all pretty much the same in the top leagues, disrupted schedules thanks to TV, player wages spiral further and further away from reasonable levels. Wimbledon (2002) and FC United fans (2005) have set up their own clubs for different reasons and started again of course.
These are just my observations. Others know a lot better and there's been plenty of research on the 'football industry' which no doubt throws in a different way of reasoning. I just think these are some relevant points to charting our history, in particular what it has felt like to be a fan through this period. Times are changing and will continue to change. The football authorities such as they are continue to do nothing in the fans interest. They are a significant third party yet to wake up to what is going on vis-a-vis ownership structure. They ought to do more and could be worth lobbying until they do.
'Addicted' to Charlton since first visit in 1962,been a regular ever since,even season tickets in the Selhurst years ! Over 50 away grounds visited etc.Never moaned (always accepted we pretty shite) all part of being the 'little team' Made those wins at Old Trafford,Anfield,Stamford Bridge,White Hart Lane,Highbury etc so great...... Just not feeling it any more..the love has gone..won't be at the Norwich game
I feel a sense of being at something of a crossroads.
What I can't work out is whether the reason is solely events at Charlton or events in my life generally.
I didn't tick a like to this comment because I hope your life improves whatever happens at Charlton Len .
I do think you have hit on something though .
On my Tivo box I record ITV4 repeats of classic Big Matches. Currently they are going through the last throes of the 1982/83 season . Charlton barely feature but Jim Rosenthail does a round up of the London clubs . I find myself becoming nostalgic for that season even though in truth we were as comparably bad then as we are now . The football is not as skilful or tactically aware as today but somehow I find the games entertaining. Brian Moore is better than the slick presenters of today .
The thread about 1980/81 makes me feel even sadder .That team was primarily London based. Steve Gritt seemed out of place coming from Bournemouth with Derek Hales and Dick Tydeman representing our Kentish heritage . I really related to that team in a way it is difficult to most of today's players. This is why the constant criticism of Morgan Fox on here annoys me .Johnnie Jackson is another exception , he does seem to care .
I hate the new breed of chairmen involved with modern football . Chelsea and Manchester City epitomize my disillusionment . Their owners have raised the bar of entry even in the second tier to the Billionaire class . It is in this context that I feel disillusioned . Had they not ruined our game Roland and his network would never have come to the Valley.
So what is Roland trying to do ? On one level I do feel it is bewildering and am frustrated as everyone else that our early season promise has fallen away . I can't work out the rationale behind Luzon's appointment for example especially when he had rejected 4 of our first team squad in Liege . On another level I do have sympathy that he is trying to bring the economics of football into some sort of reality .Even Berylson at Millwall voted against FFP and has financially bailed out Holloway yet again by bringing in 8 new players .This is the market in which we operate .
So it is modern football I hate . I still love Charlton and hope we survive this season but I will attend the VIP Q&A and the public meeting .I do have big concerns . I just hope it has a clear focus and objectives are set which will move us forward. A season ticket boycott might kill our club completely . It was those of us that continued to go to Sell out Park who ultimately kept the club alive.
As has been said many times already, season ticket numbers are likely to drop sharply because of the way Roland is running the club. That is part of the damage being done that should concern us, therefore proposing to make it worse makes no sense, but I have not seen evidence that this is being pushed by anyone. There are simply people saying that they are out, which is their choice.
The fans' aim must be to force the club to put forward something that makes those people think again. That is part of a definition of success for any campaign - it may or may not be possible under the current ownership. I doubt it, personally.
I think it means finding means of a) embarrassing the owner and/or b) making it more difficult for the owner to continue running the club, while c) not impacting on our chances of staying in this division in the meantime.
If you take the view that RD is not the problem or the risk of him going is too great then I can see that is an argument for doing nothing. It's not my view, because I think the risk of inaction is greater.
The club won't be comfortable with a large independent public meeting discussing its performance, particularly if it is well reported in the media, believe you me. So that is the first step.
Very good post Addicted, much the same as my own views and experience, albeit mine for over 60 years, but perhaps without the same dedication as you, over that whole period. Having started "following", since the days of the Jimmy Seed top level team in the early 50's, I have also seen many ups and downs.
I can understand the disappointment and impatience of the younger fans in the present situation, whether right or wrong, but I do wonder, how many of those that are making most of the noise of disapproval at the moment, were also the one's who shouted for Curbishley to go when we were not playing the exhilarating football, in the Premier League, that they felt the team should produce? I was saying at the time, "be careful what you wish for", and to be honest, the result since Curb's left, is what we've had since.
Where the new regime may lead, is anyone's guess, but earlier in the season most felt that there was something worthwhile happening, sadly, that is rather sour now, but like addicted, this is our heritage, so let's hope so.
Speaking of Charlton youth players, in the Swansea v Sunderland match yesterday was, on one side J.Defoe and on the other J.Shelvey. This says it all.
Very good post Addicted, much the same as my own views and experience, albeit mine for over 60 years, but perhaps without the same dedication as you, over that whole period. Having started "following", since the days of the Jimmy Seed top level team in the early 50's, I have also seen many ups and
Speaking of Charlton youth players, in the Swansea v Sunderland match yesterday was, on one side J.Defoe and on the other J.Shelvey. This says it all.
Well it doesn't say it all, does it? 'Twas always thus.
My worry is what happens when we drive out the man with the money. What then?
I feel a sense of being at something of a crossroads.
What I can't work out is whether the reason is solely events at Charlton or events in my life generally.
I didn't tick a like to this comment because I hope your life improves whatever happens at Charlton Len .
I do think you have hit on something though .
On my Tivo box I record ITV4 repeats of classic Big Matches. Currently they are going through the last throes of the 1982/83 season . Charlton barely feature but Jim Rosenthail does a round up of the London clubs . I find myself becoming nostalgic for that season even though in truth we were as comparably bad then as we are now . The football is not as skilful or tactically aware as today but somehow I find the games entertaining. Brian Moore is better than the slick presenters of today .
The thread about 1980/81 makes me feel even sadder .That team was primarily London based. Steve Gritt seemed out of place coming from Bournemouth with Derek Hales and Dick Tydeman representing our Kentish heritage . I really related to that team in a way it is difficult to most of today's players. This is why the constant criticism of Morgan Fox on here annoys me .Johnnie Jackson is another exception , he does seem to care .
I hate the new breed of chairmen involved with modern football . Chelsea and Manchester City epitomize my disillusionment . Their owners have raised the bar of entry even in the second tier to the Billionaire class . It is in this context that I feel disillusioned . Had they not ruined our game Roland and his network would never have come to the Valley.
So what is Roland trying to do ? On one level I do feel it is bewildering and am frustrated as everyone else that our early season promise has fallen away . I can't work out the rationale behind Luzon's appointment for example especially when he had rejected 4 of our first team squad in Liege . On another level I do have sympathy that he is trying to bring the economics of football into some sort of reality .Even Berylson at Millwall voted against FFP and has financially bailed out Holloway yet again by bringing in 8 new players .This is the market in which we operate .
So it is modern football I hate . I still love Charlton and hope we survive this season but I will attend the VIP Q&A and the public meeting .I do have big concerns . I just hope it has a clear focus and objectives are set which will move us forward. A season ticket boycott might kill our club completely . It was those of us that continued to go to Sell out Park who ultimately kept the club alive.
As has been said many times already, season ticket numbers are likely to drop sharply because of the way Roland is running the club. That is part of the damage being done that should concern us, therefore proposing to make it worse makes no sense, but I have not seen evidence that this is being pushed by anyone. There are simply people saying that they are out, which is their choice.
The fans' aim must be to force the club to put forward something that makes those people think again. That is part of a definition of success for any campaign - it may or may not be possible under the current ownership. I doubt it, personally.
I think it means finding means of a) embarrassing the owner and/or b) making it more difficult for the owner to continue running the club, while c) not impacting on our chances of staying in this division in the meantime.
If you take the view that RD is not the problem or the risk of him going is too great then I can see that is an argument for doing nothing. It's not my view, because I think the risk of inaction is greater.
The club won't be comfortable with a large independent public meeting discussing its performance, particularly if it is well reported in the media, believe you me. So that is the first step.
So what is the objective and focus of the action then ? I have only said I do not support a season ticket boycott.
That is what is crucial. You played a leading role in the back to the Valley campaign in the 80's and for that everyone on here should be grateful . The objective and focus then was quite simple we wanted to watch football in our traditional home again. It was comparatively easy to disassociate that battle from still supporting the team . Indeed at times it felt like we were supporting a cause which bonded us together.
I raise the issue of FFP and owners like Berylson . I did so because like us Millwall are local and have limited resources. The Spanners love him because he subsidises them and has given Lomas and Holloway salary budgets that dwarf ours .Yet they also are unhappy because like us they are in a relegation fight . Crucially they changed sides in the FFP debate which in my opinion was gutless . They certainly won't be demonstrating against him yet his enormous investment has only allowed them to stay still.
You doubt it will be possible to influence Roland. So you say we will seek to embarrass him and make it more difficult to run the club . So by definition you would like a change in ownership ?
If so who is willing to step in? I am not saying Roland would be my chosen owner , although In some ways I would prefer him to Abramovich or the owners of Man City who I see as basically corrupt .How can we challenge the power of money in football or is our objective to bag our own Russian or Middle Eastern oligarch? I do not think they would support fan democracy .The £150 season tickets showed in some areas the current regime has some empathy with our concerns about the cost of football . Football for a fiver continues.
How can our protests not impact our chances of staying in the division? For me this is crucial. I agree that season ticket sales will plummet this time around especially if we went back down to League One . I suspect if we do get relegated even the official attendances would to fall below 10,000. That will be a death of 1000 cuts as this time I am not sure we could climb back quickly .For example Sheffield United are now in their 4th season in League One.
I feel a sense of being at something of a crossroads.
What I can't work out is whether the reason is solely events at Charlton or events in my life generally.
I didn't tick a like to this comment because I hope your life improves whatever happens at Charlton Len .
I do think you have hit on something though .
On my Tivo box I record ITV4 repeats of classic Big Matches. Currently they are going through the last throes of the 1982/83 season . Charlton barely feature but Jim Rosenthail does a round up of the London clubs . I find myself becoming nostalgic for that season even though in truth we were as comparably bad then as we are now . The football is not as skilful or tactically aware as today but somehow I find the games entertaining. Brian Moore is better than the slick presenters of today .
The thread about 1980/81 makes me feel even sadder .That team was primarily London based. Steve Gritt seemed out of place coming from Bournemouth with Derek Hales and Dick Tydeman representing our Kentish heritage . I really related to that team in a way it is difficult to most of today's players. This is why the constant criticism of Morgan Fox on here annoys me .Johnnie Jackson is another exception , he does seem to care .
I hate the new breed of chairmen involved with modern football . Chelsea and Manchester City epitomize my disillusionment . Their owners have raised the bar of entry even in the second tier to the Billionaire class . It is in this context that I feel disillusioned . Had they not ruined our game Roland and his network would never have come to the Valley.
So what is Roland trying to do ? On one level I do feel it is bewildering and am frustrated as everyone else that our early season promise has fallen away . I can't work out the rationale behind Luzon's appointment for example especially when he had rejected 4 of our first team squad in Liege . On another level I do have sympathy that he is trying to bring the economics of football into some sort of reality .Even Berylson at Millwall voted against FFP and has financially bailed out Holloway yet again by bringing in 8 new players .This is the market in which we operate .
So it is modern football I hate . I still love Charlton and hope we survive this season but I will attend the VIP Q&A and the public meeting .I do have big concerns . I just hope it has a clear focus and objectives are set which will move us forward. A season ticket boycott might kill our club completely . It was those of us that continued to go to Sell out Park who ultimately kept the club alive.
As has been said many times already, season ticket numbers are likely to drop sharply because of the way Roland is running the club. That is part of the damage being done that should concern us, therefore proposing to make it worse makes no sense, but I have not seen evidence that this is being pushed by anyone. There are simply people saying that they are out, which is their choice.
The fans' aim must be to force the club to put forward something that makes those people think again. That is part of a definition of success for any campaign - it may or may not be possible under the current ownership. I doubt it, personally.
I think it means finding means of a) embarrassing the owner and/or b) making it more difficult for the owner to continue running the club, while c) not impacting on our chances of staying in this division in the meantime.
If you take the view that RD is not the problem or the risk of him going is too great then I can see that is an argument for doing nothing. It's not my view, because I think the risk of inaction is greater.
The club won't be comfortable with a large independent public meeting discussing its performance, particularly if it is well reported in the media, believe you me. So that is the first step.
So what is the objective and focus of the action then ? I have only said I do not support a season ticket boycott.
That is what is crucial. You played a leading role in the back to the Valley campaign in the 80's and for that everyone on here should be grateful . The objective and focus then was quite simple we wanted to watch football in our traditional home again. It was comparatively easy to disassociate that battle from still supporting the team . Indeed at times it felt like we were supporting a cause which bonded us together.
I raise the issue of FFP and owners like Berylson . I did so because like us Millwall are local and have a small budget. The Spanners love him because he subsidises them and has given Lomas and Holloway salary budgets that dwarf ours .Yet they also are unhappy because like us they are in a relegation fight . Crucially they changed sides in the FFP debate which in my opinion was gutless . They certainly won't be demonstrating against him yet his enormous investment has only allowed them to stay still.
You doubt it will be possible to influence Roland. So you say we will seek to embarrass him and make it more difficult to run the club . So by definition you would like a change in ownership ?
If so who is willing to step in? I am not saying the current regime would be my chosen owner , although In some ways I would prefer him to Abramovich or the owners of Man City who I see as basically corrupt .How can we challenge the power of money in football or is our objective to bag our own Russian or Middle Eastern oligarch? I do not think they would support fan democracy .The £150 season tickets showed in some areas the current regime has some empathy with our concerns about the cost of football . Football for a fiver continues.
How can our protests not impact our chances of staying in the division? For me this is crucial. I agree that season ticket sales will plummet this time around especially if we went back down to League One . I suspect if we do get relegated even the official attendances would to fall below 10,000. That will be a death of 1000 cuts as this time I am not sure we could climb back quickly .For example Sheffield United are now in their 4th season in League One.
The £150 season tickets - and the entire pricing structure - to me are an indication that the administration has no idea what it is doing. It failed in its own terms, which was to increase revenue overall and they were baffled by this, but that's another story. Football for a Fiver is not a net cost - or shouldn't be. Neither is Valley Express, although they treat it as if it is.
I get that you want all the answers yesterday and to some extent I sympathise. The meeting needs to be structured, purposeful and be presented with workable proposals that can command popular support. There will still be people who think what is happening is nothing out of the ordinary or disagree that now is the time, etc. just as there were people prepared to support the move to Selhurst Park because of what John Fryer had done for the club.
However, to give the meeting meaning it must be about listening to what people say, not just a few individuals presenting a plan that they had already. Secondly, it is not up to the "customers" to present all the answers to the problems. The first stage is to get the "business" to acknowledge that there is a problem with the way it operates. And to facilitate that you get the regional and national media to identify that there is an issue and report and comment on it, so they ask questions of the owner too. It's a process and it will take time.
Best wishes for the meeting Airman. I hope RD can be persuaded to put his listening ears on for his own benefit as well as the Club's. Best chance for that is an approach that is manifestly constructive.
I feel a sense of being at something of a crossroads.
What I can't work out is whether the reason is solely events at Charlton or events in my life generally.
I didn't tick a like to this comment because I hope your life improves whatever happens at Charlton Len .
I do think you have hit on something though .
On my Tivo box I record ITV4 repeats of classic Big Matches. Currently they are going through the last throes of the 1982/83 season . Charlton barely feature but Jim Rosenthail does a round up of the London clubs . I find myself becoming nostalgic for that season even though in truth we were as comparably bad then as we are now . The football is not as skilful or tactically aware as today but somehow I find the games entertaining. Brian Moore is better than the slick presenters of today .
The thread about 1980/81 makes me feel even sadder .That team was primarily London based. Steve Gritt seemed out of place coming from Bournemouth with Derek Hales and Dick Tydeman representing our Kentish heritage . I really related to that team in a way it is difficult to most of today's players. This is why the constant criticism of Morgan Fox on here annoys me .Johnnie Jackson is another exception , he does seem to care .
I hate the new breed of chairmen involved with modern football . Chelsea and Manchester City epitomize my disillusionment . Their owners have raised the bar of entry even in the second tier to the Billionaire class . It is in this context that I feel disillusioned . Had they not ruined our game Roland and his network would never have come to the Valley.
So what is Roland trying to do ? On one level I do feel it is bewildering and am frustrated as everyone else that our early season promise has fallen away . I can't work out the rationale behind Luzon's appointment for example especially when he had rejected 4 of our first team squad in Liege . On another level I do have sympathy that he is trying to bring the economics of football into some sort of reality .Even Berylson at Millwall voted against FFP and has financially bailed out Holloway yet again by bringing in 8 new players .This is the market in which we operate .
So it is modern football I hate . I still love Charlton and hope we survive this season but I will attend the VIP Q&A and the public meeting .I do have big concerns . I just hope it has a clear focus and objectives are set which will move us forward. A season ticket boycott might kill our club completely . It was those of us that continued to go to Sell out Park who ultimately kept the club alive.
As has been said many times already, season ticket numbers are likely to drop sharply because of the way Roland is running the club. That is part of the damage being done that should concern us, therefore proposing to make it worse makes no sense, but I have not seen evidence that this is being pushed by anyone. There are simply people saying that they are out, which is their choice.
The fans' aim must be to force the club to put forward something that makes those people think again. That is part of a definition of success for any campaign - it may or may not be possible under the current ownership. I doubt it, personally.
I think it means finding means of a) embarrassing the owner and/or b) making it more difficult for the owner to continue running the club, while c) not impacting on our chances of staying in this division in the meantime.
If you take the view that RD is not the problem or the risk of him going is too great then I can see that is an argument for doing nothing. It's not my view, because I think the risk of inaction is greater.
The club won't be comfortable with a large independent public meeting discussing its performance, particularly if it is well reported in the media, believe you me. So that is the first step.
So what is the objective and focus of the action then ? I have only said I do not support a season ticket boycott.
That is what is crucial. You played a leading role in the back to the Valley campaign in the 80's and for that everyone on here should be grateful . The objective and focus then was quite simple we wanted to watch football in our traditional home again. It was comparatively easy to disassociate that battle from still supporting the team . Indeed at times it felt like we were supporting a cause which bonded us together.
I raise the issue of FFP and owners like Berylson . I did so because like us Millwall are local and have limited resources. The Spanners love him because he subsidises them and has given Lomas and Holloway salary budgets that dwarf ours .Yet they also are unhappy because like us they are in a relegation fight . Crucially they changed sides in the FFP debate which in my opinion was gutless . They certainly won't be demonstrating against him yet his enormous investment has only allowed them to stay still.
You doubt it will be possible to influence Roland. So you say we will seek to embarrass him and make it more difficult to run the club . So by definition you would like a change in ownership ?
If so who is willing to step in? I am not saying Roland would be my chosen owner , although In some ways I would prefer him to Abramovich or the owners of Man City who I see as basically corrupt .How can we challenge the power of money in football or is our objective to bag our own Russian or Middle Eastern oligarch? I do not think they would support fan democracy .The £150 season tickets showed in some areas the current regime has some empathy with our concerns about the cost of football . Football for a fiver continues.
How can our protests not impact our chances of staying in the division? For me this is crucial. I agree that season ticket sales will plummet this time around especially if we went back down to League One . I suspect if we do get relegated even the official attendances would to fall below 10,000. That will be a death of 1000 cuts as this time I am not sure we could climb back quickly .For example Sheffield United are now in their 4th season in League One.
Surely the point about Berylson is that without him, Millwall wouldn't even be in the Championship. Their natural level is about equal to Orient's. I honestly think we have more potential than that, but we are 9th in the pecking order of London clubs now - probably the lowest we've been for 80 years.
I don't think what is necessarily driving the angst is a desire to see Roland out.
I feel that a lot of people would like Roland to change his approach in a lot of areas to do with Charlton, and that a lot of the fans would then be prepared to be won over to doing things differently if they understood what was happening.
People may want this Roland model out, but a Roland that can synergise with the good things inherent in Charlton, a Roland that could also be flexible and biddable, a Roland that can take the support along with him, would be a Roland who many would welcome.
Whatever is growling away in these parts, it would be a mistake to assume the objective is to get rid of Roland.
I don't think what is necessarily driving the angst is a desire to see Roland out.
I feel that a lot of people would like Roland to change his approach in a lot of areas to do with Charlton, and that a lot of the fans would then be prepared to be won over to doing things differently if they understood what was happening.
People may want this Roland model out, but a Roland that can synergise with the good things inherent in Charlton, a Roland that could also be flexible and biddable, a Roland that can take the support along with him, would be a Roland who many would welcome.
Whatever is growling away in these parts, it would be a mistake to assume the objective is to get rid of Roland.
Would seem nothing else but new owners will do for some,
Will make the meeting very important just so the feelings can be gauged correctly
The big disconnect at the moment is the gulf between the owner RD and the fans. Thank God we have the Trust in place because it is exactly for circumstances like this that it was put in place. The responsibility here is for the Trust to keep pursuing this until RD changes his approach.
For me what is obviously missing is a fans liaison within the club who is a legitimate advocate for the fans whilst also being aware of what makes sense from a Board level. KM does not fill this requirement as she is too young/inexperienced/weak (take your choice) to stand up to RD on matters like this. I am assuming this is one of her responsibilities but if not then this needs to be a position that RD should be pushed to appoint. Surely he can see that this is a void that should be filled for the benefit of him and the Club.
I don't think what is necessarily driving the angst is a desire to see Roland out.
I feel that a lot of people would like Roland to change his approach in a lot of areas to do with Charlton, and that a lot of the fans would then be prepared to be won over to doing things differently if they understood what was happening.
People may want this Roland model out, but a Roland that can synergise with the good things inherent in Charlton, a Roland that could also be flexible and biddable, a Roland that can take the support along with him, would be a Roland who many would welcome.
Whatever is growling away in these parts, it would be a mistake to assume the objective is to get rid of Roland.
You always write well, Seth: your words are a joy to read. However, may I give you an example? Duchatelet sent us a goalkeeper, Thuram, who flapped at the ball like a fourteen-year-old-girl having her first period at St Trinian's. Even our own coaching staff - naturally circumspect - said publicly he wouldn't make in to a team in the Conference South.
Next time our good supporters are at The Valley, watch specifically those 50-50 balls in midfield. We lose them. We haven't been able to seize possession, pass, control, pass and advance for three seasons. That's piss-poor, under any manager or owner.
A few months ago, we were at home to Millwall in the last minute: Tucudean is free against their keeper, and fluffs it. Next home game, Cardiff: in last minute, Bikey has the goal gaping, and side-foots it over the bar. A fortnight later - in the last minute, again - Vetokele has a glorious chance advancing alone to the Brighton keeper - and he slices it in to Row Z.
We lack simple, basic, technical skills. Every club in our division has an academy: it's an absurd conceit to think that players like Cousins, Fox, Harriott, and Joe Piggott are any better than their counterparts at Blackburn, Rotherham, or Bolton. Patently, they are not - and that's why we are 19th.
We have an owner - a fantastically wealthy man, remember - whose stated ambition last summer was not to spend any money: "Avoid relegation," was his mumbling skinflint ambition. We have drearily ordinary players, and a manager who, like Peeters before, has emerged from the backwaters and can't believe his luck.
VF All of the things you say are absolutely valid. I suppose my point is that we would like to see Mr Duchatelet shift his stance on things Charlton but still continue to support the club, for the mutual benefit of all concerned.
Like yourself I have supported for many years, and of course I recognise Charlton as a Club where you have to accept shall we say a lot of challenges. All that I can forgive, but there are a few things that I cannot be happy to accept. We have an owner who is a dictator, and who fails to communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere (rapidly dwindling) at a game. If he had a good plan, and took suitable action to make it work, and failed, I would forgive him, not everybody can win every time. This guy has given us a record of four managers in one year, and is now watching us slide towards relegation. Not continuing with Jose Riga was a massive error, which of course our megalomaniac would never admit to. Sorry chaps, but we are a rich mans toy.
Like yourself I have supported for many years, and of course I recognise Charlton as a Club where you have to accept shall we say a lot of challenges. All that I can forgive, but there are a few things that I cannot be happy to accept. We have an owner who is a dictator, and who fails to communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere (rapidly dwindling) at a game. If he had a good plan, and took suitable action to make it work, and failed, I would forgive him, not everybody can win every time. This guy has given us a record of four managers in one year, and is now watching us slide towards relegation. Not continuing with Jose Riga was a massive error, which of course our megalomaniac would never admit to. Sorry chaps, but we are a rich mans toy.
I would be interested to know how may directors we have had that 'communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere'
I would be interested to know how may directors we have had that 'communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere'
Excellent piece, N. I'm in the moan after every defeat and happy chappy after every win camp. Charlton's in my blood as it was with my dad, granddad, uncles and cousins. I support the team so I'll probably get a season ticket, as usual, next season come what may.
I would be interested to know how may directors we have had that 'communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere'
I would be interested to know how may directors we have had that 'communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere'
I would be interested to know how may directors we have had that 'communicate in a reasonable manner with the people who pay their money and create the atmosphere'
Try Richard Murray and Peter Varney for starters
Murray didn't communicate the sale of the Club to the chuckle brothers very well - apart from telling us our shares were now worthless.
Comments
Me I wanted to burn his office down and kick it off outside, because I found him more of an issue in the end in the way he shit on those close to him and between him and pv can't remember exactly what one lied about who.has going to get the gig after pardont
What's the difference now with the lies, the shit players not worthy of the badge, no heart no desire no guts, no leadership a weak manager
All to familiar for me
I do think you have hit on something though .
On my Tivo box I record ITV4 repeats of classic Big Matches. Currently they are going through the last throes of the 1982/83 season . Charlton barely feature but Jim Rosenthail does a round up of the London clubs . I find myself becoming nostalgic for that season even though in truth we were as comparably bad then as we are now . The football is not as skilful or tactically aware as today but somehow I find the games entertaining. Brian Moore is better than the slick presenters of today .
The thread about 1980/81 makes me feel even sadder .That team was primarily London based. Steve Gritt seemed out of place coming from Bournemouth with Derek Hales and Dick Tydeman representing our Kentish heritage . I really related to that team in a way it is difficult to most of today's players. This is why the constant criticism of Morgan Fox on here annoys me .Johnnie Jackson is another exception , he does seem to care .
I hate the new breed of chairmen involved with modern football . Chelsea and Manchester City epitomize my disillusionment . Their owners have raised the bar of entry even in the second tier to the Billionaire class . It is in this context that I feel disillusioned . Had they not ruined our game Roland and his network would never have come to the Valley.
So what is Roland trying to do ? On one level I do feel it is bewildering and am frustrated as everyone else that our early season promise has fallen away . I can't work out the rationale behind Luzon's appointment for example especially when he had rejected 4 of our first team squad in Liege . On another level I do have sympathy that he is trying to bring the economics of football into some sort of reality .Even Berylson at Millwall voted against FFP and has financially bailed out Holloway yet again by bringing in 8 new players .This is the market in which we operate .
So it is modern football I hate . I still love Charlton and hope we survive this season but I will attend the VIP Q&A and the public meeting .I do have big concerns . I just hope it has a clear focus and objectives are set which will move us forward. A season ticket boycott might kill our club completely . It was those of us that continued to go to Sell out Park who ultimately kept the club alive.
Things changed for us post-Curbs. And at around the time Football moved on too. Investment money and TV interests flooded in and we have seen some colossal foreign investment at the top of the leagues. Clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Cardiff, Coventry, Wimbledon have suffered most. We're riding the downwards wave now, no longer one of the rising clubs when the overall stock of English football was rising. Rich clubs have gotten richer and weaker clubs have struggled. We have seen a large number of new grounds, all pretty much the same in the top leagues, disrupted schedules thanks to TV, player wages spiral further and further away from reasonable levels. Wimbledon (2002) and FC United fans (2005) have set up their own clubs for different reasons and started again of course.
These are just my observations. Others know a lot better and there's been plenty of research on the 'football industry' which no doubt throws in a different way of reasoning. I just think these are some relevant points to charting our history, in particular what it has felt like to be a fan through this period. Times are changing and will continue to change. The football authorities such as they are continue to do nothing in the fans interest. They are a significant third party yet to wake up to what is going on vis-a-vis ownership structure. They ought to do more and could be worth lobbying until they do.
Just not feeling it any more..the love has gone..won't be at the Norwich game
The fans' aim must be to force the club to put forward something that makes those people think again. That is part of a definition of success for any campaign - it may or may not be possible under the current ownership. I doubt it, personally.
I think it means finding means of a) embarrassing the owner and/or b) making it more difficult for the owner to continue running the club, while c) not impacting on our chances of staying in this division in the meantime.
If you take the view that RD is not the problem or the risk of him going is too great then I can see that is an argument for doing nothing. It's not my view, because I think the risk of inaction is greater.
The club won't be comfortable with a large independent public meeting discussing its performance, particularly if it is well reported in the media, believe you me. So that is the first step.
I can understand the disappointment and impatience of the younger fans in the present situation, whether right or wrong, but I do wonder, how many of those that are making most of the noise of disapproval at the moment, were also the one's who shouted for Curbishley to go when we were not playing the exhilarating football, in the Premier League, that they felt the team should produce? I was saying at the time, "be careful what you wish for", and to be honest, the result since Curb's left, is what we've had since.
Where the new regime may lead, is anyone's guess, but earlier in the season most felt that there was something worthwhile happening, sadly, that is rather sour now, but like addicted, this is our heritage, so let's hope so.
Speaking of Charlton youth players, in the Swansea v Sunderland match yesterday was, on one side J.Defoe and on the other J.Shelvey. This says it all.
My worry is what happens when we drive out the man with the money.
What then?
That is what is crucial. You played a leading role in the back to the Valley campaign in the 80's and for that everyone on here should be grateful . The objective and focus then was quite simple we wanted to watch football in our traditional home again. It was comparatively easy to disassociate that battle from still supporting the team . Indeed at times it felt like we were supporting a cause which bonded us together.
I raise the issue of FFP and owners like Berylson . I did so because like us Millwall are local and have limited resources. The Spanners love him because he subsidises them and has given Lomas and Holloway salary budgets that dwarf ours .Yet they also are unhappy because like us they are in a relegation fight . Crucially they changed sides in the FFP debate which in my opinion was gutless . They certainly won't be demonstrating against him yet his enormous investment has only allowed them to stay still.
You doubt it will be possible to influence Roland. So you say we will seek to embarrass him and make it more difficult to run the club . So by definition you would like a change in ownership ?
If so who is willing to step in? I am not saying Roland would be my chosen owner , although In some ways I would prefer him to Abramovich or the owners of Man City who I see as basically corrupt .How can we challenge the power of money in football or is our objective to bag our own Russian or Middle Eastern oligarch? I do not think they would support fan democracy .The £150 season tickets showed in some areas the current regime has some empathy with our concerns about the cost of football . Football for a fiver continues.
How can our protests not impact our chances of staying in the division? For me this is crucial. I agree that season ticket sales will plummet this time around especially if we went back down to League One . I suspect if we do get relegated even the official attendances would to fall below 10,000. That will be a death of 1000 cuts as this time I am not sure we could climb back quickly .For example Sheffield United are now in their 4th season in League One.
I get that you want all the answers yesterday and to some extent I sympathise. The meeting needs to be structured, purposeful and be presented with workable proposals that can command popular support. There will still be people who think what is happening is nothing out of the ordinary or disagree that now is the time, etc. just as there were people prepared to support the move to Selhurst Park because of what John Fryer had done for the club.
However, to give the meeting meaning it must be about listening to what people say, not just a few individuals presenting a plan that they had already. Secondly, it is not up to the "customers" to present all the answers to the problems. The first stage is to get the "business" to acknowledge that there is a problem with the way it operates. And to facilitate that you get the regional and national media to identify that there is an issue and report and comment on it, so they ask questions of the owner too. It's a process and it will take time.
Surely the point about Berylson is that without him, Millwall wouldn't even be in the Championship. Their natural level is about equal to Orient's. I honestly think we have more potential than that, but we are 9th in the pecking order of London clubs now - probably the lowest we've been for 80 years.
I feel that a lot of people would like Roland to change his approach in a lot of areas to do with Charlton, and that a lot of the fans would then be prepared to be won over to doing things differently if they understood what was happening.
People may want this Roland model out, but a Roland that can synergise with the good things inherent in Charlton, a Roland that could also be flexible and biddable, a Roland that can take the support along with him, would be a Roland who many would welcome.
Whatever is growling away in these parts, it would be a mistake to assume the objective is to get rid of Roland.
Would seem nothing else but new owners will do for some,
Will make the meeting very important just so the feelings can be gauged correctly
For me what is obviously missing is a fans liaison within the club who is a legitimate advocate for the fans whilst also being aware of what makes sense from a Board level. KM does not fill this requirement as she is too young/inexperienced/weak (take your choice) to stand up to RD on matters like this. I am assuming this is one of her responsibilities but if not then this needs to be a position that RD should be pushed to appoint. Surely he can see that this is a void that should be filled for the benefit of him and the Club.
Step up Henry Irving. :-)
Next time our good supporters are at The Valley, watch specifically those 50-50 balls in midfield. We lose them. We haven't been able to seize possession, pass, control, pass and advance for three seasons. That's piss-poor, under any manager or owner.
A few months ago, we were at home to Millwall in the last minute: Tucudean is free against their keeper, and fluffs it. Next home game, Cardiff: in last minute, Bikey has the goal gaping, and side-foots it over the bar. A fortnight later - in the last minute, again - Vetokele has a glorious chance advancing alone to the Brighton keeper - and he slices it in to Row Z.
We lack simple, basic, technical skills. Every club in our division has an academy: it's an absurd conceit to think that players like Cousins, Fox, Harriott, and Joe Piggott are any better than their counterparts at Blackburn, Rotherham, or Bolton. Patently, they are not - and that's why we are 19th.
We have an owner - a fantastically wealthy man, remember - whose stated ambition last summer was not to spend any money: "Avoid relegation," was his mumbling skinflint ambition. We have drearily ordinary players, and a manager who, like Peeters before, has emerged from the backwaters and can't believe his luck.
All of the things you say are absolutely valid. I suppose my point is that we would like to see Mr Duchatelet shift his stance on things Charlton but still continue to support the club, for the mutual benefit of all concerned.
They said they hoped to one day win promotion.
They bought the club because of its strong community roots and traditions and also to provide a link with their other club Fort Worth Vaqueros.
They added that they had some plans to make changes, but anything that affected the traditions of the club would be put to the fans.
Try Richard Murray and Peter Varney for starters