it'd take some monster sea change within the playing staff for us to have the same home support numbers next year I've said it for a long time the crowds are going down , the general apathy with football and saturation on TV isn't helping and this dull Belgian footballing experiment , currently heading on the road to nowhere, is hardly making us fans chomp at the bit for the next instalment
Now that was really bad. I have read the other posts and pretty much agree with most of what has been said. The formation and tactics were atrocious. Our players were second to the ball most of the game. What is going on in training? Are they unfit? Bikey is looking like a side of a house.
I really do believe Bob is losing it. There didn't seem to be any cohesion on the pitch. Three at the back with Cousins and Wilson playing as wing backs just wasn't working. No wonder Fox was caught between a rock and a hard place twice. Also, the Gomez for JBG substitution was beyond belief. Why substitute your most likely to score player with a defender, and then put another defender up in attack. Unbelievable.
I was also told by my mate who was sitting in the West Stand close to the dugout areas that the body language between JJ and BB was not good as they were coming off at half time. Bob was laying into Jacko apparently and JJ was not a happy camper. Also, in the 2nd half Bob was laying into TBH who also was not a happy camper at all. Now Bob tell me, why alienate your captain and also your most senior player in front of the watching public? That is not the best way to win friends and influence people.
I fear BB may be running out of ideas, getting frustrated and basically losing the plot. I hope I'm wrong of course but, in my opinion, the signs are not good.
Woke up this morning and thinking about yesterday's game I'm even more gobsmacked how Simple basics were ignored. We were aiming throw ins to a player who was double marked front and back! 3 consecutive throw ins this was done resulting with a loss of possession every time.
As another poster said, I too saw BP having a stern word with Jacko when coming off at half time and there was little harmony. Jacko looked at BP and just bit back with a spray when bob was clearly having a pop at Jacko.
The players have lost belief. It's that simple as far as I'm concerned. And that's peters fault.
I was also told by my mate who was sitting in the West Stand close to the dugout areas that the body language between JJ and BB was not good as they were coming off at half time. Bob was laying into Jacko apparently and JJ was not a happy camper. Also, in the 2nd half Bob was laying into TBH who also was not a happy camper at all. Now Bob tell me, why alienate your captain and also your most senior player in front of the watching public? That is not the best way to win friends and influence people.
I fear BB may be running out of ideas, getting frustrated and basically losing the plot. I hope I'm wrong of course but, in my opinion, the signs are not good.
It's depressing to read through all the posts but that's one thing I find most worrying. Along with some other comments on BP in this thread, I can't help but wonder if there's anything wrong within the team? BP gives me the impression of a very direct and outspoken manager. However sometimes being too outspoken may have negative effects on the players. I do hope it's just over-analysing things and BP's still got the dressing room under control......
The woeful lack of movement meant the thrower had only this option.
If a player is double teamed, there will be a free man. Your right in saying there was sod all movement, but I could see a possession retaining throw every time, that didn't play it backwards.
The woeful lack of movement meant the thrower had only this option.
If a player is double teamed, there will be a free man. Your right in saying there was sod all movement, but I could see a possession retaining throw every time, that didn't play it backwards.
I'll take your word for it but I didn't see anyone looking like they wanted the ball from a throw.
If Bob's lost the dressing room then he needs to go...
Four managers (head coaches) in 12 months would make us Crystal Palace. We have tried this before - Curbishley-Dowie-Reed-Pardew - and it fails to address the underlying issue of the players not being good enough (although much of that was Dowie's fault).
Peeters may or may not be the medium-term answer, but to blame him for the consequences of running an inadequate squad will get us nowhere.
The one thing I found frustrating from the Ipswich game and yesterdays game is the lack of bodies we get in there penalty area. Time and time again a player will get down the channel, look up to put a cross in and find only 2 players (if you are lucky) in the bloody box. Jacko did it once in the first half arriving late and blasting over the bar. It's not rocket science. The more players you have in there box, the more options you have.
The woeful lack of movement meant the thrower had only this option.
If a player is double teamed, there will be a free man. Your right in saying there was sod all movement, but I could see a possession retaining throw every time, that didn't play it backwards.
I'll take your word for it but I didn't see anyone looking like they wanted the ball from a throw.
When Peeters was appointed they must have thought he could do a job, continuity and patience it must be. Duchatelet has to allow Peeters to bring in players who he wants.
Or did Peeters take the job on the understanding of having very little say in recruitment and is a yes man/puppet.
Having trouble convincing my daughter to come as she has other things on. Yesterday she was shopping with her friends. I can't argue that she made the right decision and muggins here didn't. At least there was another great goal from JBG.
I understand the frustration, but he's ploughed a lot of money into our club already. Buying the club running at a loss, investing in the pitch and the amount of players we bought in over the summer and so far
I know they have been network players and I know a lot of us wanted to invest off the back of the start of the season, but RD may have felt that we can get where we want to go with those players.
Over the last couple of weeks it has transpired they're prob not enough, and we must give RD January the chance to see if he can change it.
Watt is another network player, but that's his model. We're just over a year in. We got where we wanted to go at the end of last season albeit with some right clowns like Thuram.
I want investment as much as the next fan, and I think RD may be seeing with recent results that's what we need. But he doesn't owe us money. He's working through his strategy of FFP. We'll see. Fingers crossed for some new blood - outside the network would be an encouraging first sign
The bit that confuses me is how much worse this team is playing than at the start of the season. We looked very, very good in the first few home games; exciting, creative, incisive, dangerous, coherent,........where the hell did that go wrong?
The bit that confuses me is how much worse this team is playing than at the start of the season. We looked very, very good in the first few home games; exciting, creative, incisive, dangerous, coherent,........where the hell did that go wrong?
We got sussed out, hit by injuries and suspensions and relied too heavily on young inexperienced payers for the tough demands of the Championship. Next. ;-)
Gorgeous Lliege running in the 2.50 at Plumpton today @ 4-1.. Maybe RD should lump a few million on his true Belgian Love and win us some serious transfer booty??!!
The bit that confuses me is how much worse this team is playing than at the start of the season. We looked very, very good in the first few home games; exciting, creative, incisive, dangerous, coherent,........where the hell did that go wrong?
The other teams worked out how to play Charlton and get a result. Add in inadequate squad depth that left players exhausted and lack of quality in replacements then that's where it went wrong.
Charlton were also unlucky to lose Coquelin who was making a difference and Henderson who was helping to keep the defence steady.
If Bob's lost the dressing room then he needs to go...
Four managers (head coaches) in 12 months would make us Crystal Palace. We have tried this before - Curbishley-Dowie-Reed-Pardew - and it fails to address the underlying issue of the players not being good enough (although much of that was Dowie's fault).
Peeters may or may not be the medium-term answer, but to blame him for the consequences of running an inadequate squad will get us nowhere.
Powell and Riga were expected to manage RDs squad so why would we think BP would be given the licence to run his own squad? It is fair to criticise a manager who is now consistently pitching up at post match interviews saying "there is nothing you can do about it". Sorry Bob, your job is all about doing something about it and if you haven't got the nous mate, its time to make room for someone who will think differently.
Don't blame him for RD but really he has got some potentially decent players at his disposal but resolutely seems to reject the notion of pushing on in games, ball retention and pressing the opposition when not in possession. What is he offering instead of this?
Maybe we have a number ipf players who, like me, have red/green colour blindness (a lot of people do). Just watched the highlights (sic) programme and I am honestly seriously struggling to see that pink, sorry "mango", abomination of a ball. I thought last year would have been a one off. Another good reason not to watch the FA cup to the extent that I needed another........
Great numbers and support from the bastard Rovers FairPlay ....
Are the players playing to their maximum for the manager , no
Utter shit
Eventually my boys will realise the pizza after football is shit too and I won't have any more bullshit in my locker to drag them along to our boring proper shit football
Ooey, you need to change your preferred pizza supplier, Papa Johns does a mean Bbq chicken pizza.
Interestingly noted from above our close season signings. Would like to offer my humble opinion.
Henderson - Good when fit. Did West Ham know he had a dodgy shoulder. Look at his appearances for prev. clubs. Bikey - Good early season, now bit of a liability. TBH - Good premier ship experience, but needs more players of his quality around him. JBG - Good signing! Buyens - Only on a seasons loan, so reserve judgment. Bulot - Not impressed. Moussa - Another injury prone player, only seen him a couple of times, seems a bit lightweight. Vetokele - Good signing, but may have been sussed out and not 100% fit at the moment. Tuc - Too inconsistent for my liking.
As I keep on saying, not one British or ex Championship or Premier fringe player. Why don't we go for proven players, does Bob have no knowledge of them? (Even Henderson from Eire). Do we just go for cheap as chips people?
I have a confession to make. A couple of weeks ago, I checked Charlton's odds for relegation and Betfair offered 20-1. I was about to put £100 on but a feeling of guilt stopped me. We are now 10-1 on Betfair having drawn with Cardiff, lost at Ipswich and lost in a game that doesn't affect relegation. The bookies are no fools.
I had qualms about the much lauded TBH and Bikey combination at the back, but in the early season the facts proved me wrong - the goals against column was first class. My concern was based on the fact that I didn't expect them to be fit for the season and they would be red carded a couple of times. I've been proved wrong on that, but something doesn't seem right at the back now. Bikey seems to be more exposed, arguably due to the problems at full back. Goals are being conceded regularly and, in a team that is certain to score few, this is bad news.
My biggest worry is that if the defence continues to leak 1 or 2 at home and 2 or 3 away, we will be in trouble. The team was built on solid defence at the start of the season with Vetokele looking lively up front. The alternative in this division seems to be having a team that works hard, is compact, physical, has few weaknesses and can nick a goal or two. In other words, nothing special, but enough. I worry that with the lack of depth in the squad, we are going to struggle as injuries, suspensions and players losing form start to bite. I hope I am wrong. A win next win is going to be important, particularly as I don't like the look of the next three away games at Wolves, Watford and Boro.
I share thai malaysia addick's concern about the next batch of away games, all of which look tough. It makes the forthcoming home matches against the teams currently below us, Brighton, Rotherham and (a little later) Huddersfield, all the more important.
Anyone know why there seemed exaggerated celebrations from Blackburn after their two goals ?? Just seemed a bit over the top for FA Cup goals against the mighty Addicks !!
If Bob's lost the dressing room then he needs to go...
Four managers (head coaches) in 12 months would make us Crystal Palace. We have tried this before - Curbishley-Dowie-Reed-Pardew - and it fails to address the underlying issue of the players not being good enough (although much of that was Dowie's fault).
Peeters may or may not be the medium-term answer, but to blame him for the consequences of running an inadequate squad will get us nowhere.
Did 24 points from 16 games in any way indicate that the squad was "inadequate"? Given that Riga secured same, that makes him a miracle worker or perhaps last season's squad wasn't as "grossly inadequate" as 24th place indicated last March?
I would venture our players were good enough as we beat Derby and went unbeaten for how many games?! What has happened since is down to a mix of injuries and incessant tinkering. We failed to beat Blackpool and Millwall a month ago and chickens are coming home to roost.
Employing four head coaches in 12 months does not make us Crystal Palace nor any other club. That sounds like a case to retain the head coach no matter how many games we go without a win, no matter how low we sink in the table. Nor is there any parallel with the Dowie/Pardew era, for our squad has improved over the last 12 months and this is obvious to all but the most myopic of supporters.
As others have posted, Peeters needs to be backed or sacked. Next Saturday with Watt, Vetokele and Solly involved it maybe a different story or more of the same... Time will tell.
I have a confession to make. A couple of weeks ago, I checked Charlton's odds for relegation and Betfair offered 20-1. I was about to put £100 on but a feeling of guilt stopped me. We are now 10-1 on Betfair having drawn with Cardiff, lost at Ipswich and lost in a game that doesn't affect relegation. The bookies are no fools.
I had qualms about the much lauded TBH and Bikey combination at the back, but in the early season the facts proved me wrong - the goals against column was first class. My concern was based on the fact that I didn't expect them to be fit for the season and they would be red carded a couple of times. I've been proved wrong on that, but something doesn't seem right at the back now. Bikey seems to be more exposed, arguably due to the problems at full back. Goals are being conceded regularly and, in a team that is certain to score few, this is bad news.
My biggest worry is that if the defence continues to leak 1 or 2 at home and 2 or 3 away, we will be in trouble. The team was built on solid defence at the start of the season with Vetokele looking lively up front. The alternative in this division seems to be having a team that works hard, is compact, physical, has few weaknesses and can nick a goal or two. In other words, nothing special, but enough. I worry that with the lack of depth in the squad, we are going to struggle as injuries, suspensions and players losing form start to bite. I hope I am wrong. A win next win is going to be important, particularly as I don't like the look of the next three away games at Wolves, Watford and Boro.
Seems as though you're saying that our current team falls between the 2 stools for success in the Championship and I have to agree that this is the case.
The question is, which area will RD agree to strengthen during January, if either.
I posted yesterday that I believed the time was ripe for a statement of intent from our owner.
I stand by that and also my request that Katrien & Bob, who are ever present at matches, impress on RD the need to strengthen in light of the worrying recent results. Airman replied that he felt Katrien is only a mouthpiece for her boss and that she has no/little influence over who comes in or goes out ( Hopefully I haven't misquoted AB or I'll be for it !)
If that's the case, what role does Karel Freye have in this and, bearing in mind he was at a recent game, would his views have any effect on RD's decisions ? Surely SOMEONE has to present a strong case on behalf of our manager and, although our views may be completely disregarded, our supporters ?
We have a Fans' Forum meeting on Thursday 15th January and I have requested that the matter of the annual VIP meeting with manager/owner/CEO be put on the agenda. This has taken place in the New Year for the past 4 seasons that the scheme has run and I believe this may be our best opportunity for questions to be asked....whether they are answered satisfactorily, is another matter but we can only hope. I'd like to think that Roland himself would grace us with his presence, especially if a new VIP scheme is in the pipeline but that remains to be seen. I'll definitely be highlighting this request at said meeting.
The bit that confuses me is how much worse this team is playing than at the start of the season. We looked very, very good in the first few home games; exciting, creative, incisive, dangerous, coherent,........where the hell did that go wrong?
Did we though? I can't think of one game that we have won this season where we can convincingly say we were the better side who deserved all 3 points.
They have all been smash and grabs and hanging on for dear life.
Comments
I've said it for a long time the crowds are going down , the general apathy with football and saturation on TV isn't helping and this dull Belgian footballing experiment , currently heading on the road to nowhere, is hardly making us fans chomp at the bit for the next instalment
As another poster said, I too saw BP having a stern word with Jacko when coming off at half time and there was little harmony. Jacko looked at BP and just bit back with a spray when bob was clearly having a pop at Jacko.
The players have lost belief. It's that simple as far as I'm concerned. And that's peters fault.
Peeters may or may not be the medium-term answer, but to blame him for the consequences of running an inadequate squad will get us nowhere.
When Peeters was appointed they must have thought he could do a job, continuity and patience it must be. Duchatelet has to allow Peeters to bring in players who he wants.
Or did Peeters take the job on the understanding of having very little say in recruitment and is a yes man/puppet.
Henderson
Bikey
TBH
JBG
Buyens
Bulot
Moussa
Vetokele
Tuc
I know they have been network players and I know a lot of us wanted to invest off the back of the start of the season, but RD may have felt that we can get where we want to go with those players.
Over the last couple of weeks it has transpired they're prob not enough, and we must give RD January the chance to see if he can change it.
Watt is another network player, but that's his model. We're just over a year in. We got where we wanted to go at the end of last season albeit with some right clowns like Thuram.
I want investment as much as the next fan, and I think RD may be seeing with recent results that's what we need. But he doesn't owe us money. He's working through his strategy of FFP. We'll see. Fingers crossed for some new blood - outside the network would be an encouraging first sign
Charlton were also unlucky to lose Coquelin who was making a difference and Henderson who was helping to keep the defence steady.
Don't blame him for RD but really he has got some potentially decent players at his disposal but resolutely seems to reject the notion of pushing on in games, ball retention and pressing the opposition when not in possession. What is he offering instead of this?
Ooey, you need to change your preferred pizza supplier, Papa Johns does a mean Bbq chicken pizza.
Would like to offer my humble opinion.
Henderson - Good when fit. Did West Ham know he had a dodgy shoulder. Look at his appearances for prev. clubs.
Bikey - Good early season, now bit of a liability.
TBH - Good premier ship experience, but needs more players of his quality around him.
JBG - Good signing!
Buyens - Only on a seasons loan, so reserve judgment.
Bulot - Not impressed.
Moussa - Another injury prone player, only seen him a couple of times, seems a bit lightweight.
Vetokele - Good signing, but may have been sussed out and not 100% fit at the moment.
Tuc - Too inconsistent for my liking.
As I keep on saying, not one British or ex Championship or Premier fringe player.
Why don't we go for proven players, does Bob have no knowledge of them?
(Even Henderson from Eire). Do we just go for cheap as chips people?
I had qualms about the much lauded TBH and Bikey combination at the back, but in the early season the facts proved me wrong - the goals against column was first class. My concern was based on the fact that I didn't expect them to be fit for the season and they would be red carded a couple of times. I've been proved wrong on that, but something doesn't seem right at the back now. Bikey seems to be more exposed, arguably due to the problems at full back. Goals are being conceded regularly and, in a team that is certain to score few, this is bad news.
My biggest worry is that if the defence continues to leak 1 or 2 at home and 2 or 3 away, we will be in trouble. The team was built on solid defence at the start of the season with Vetokele looking lively up front. The alternative in this division seems to be having a team that works hard, is compact, physical, has few weaknesses and can nick a goal or two. In other words, nothing special, but enough. I worry that with the lack of depth in the squad, we are going to struggle as injuries, suspensions and players losing form start to bite. I hope I am wrong. A win next win is going to be important, particularly as I don't like the look of the next three away games at Wolves, Watford and Boro.
Just seemed a bit over the top for FA Cup goals against the mighty Addicks !!
I would venture our players were good enough as we beat Derby and went unbeaten for how many games?! What has happened since is down to a mix of injuries and incessant tinkering. We failed to beat Blackpool and Millwall a month ago and chickens are coming home to roost.
Employing four head coaches in 12 months does not make us Crystal Palace nor any other club. That sounds like a case to retain the head coach no matter how many games we go without a win, no matter how low we sink in the table. Nor is there any parallel with the Dowie/Pardew era, for our squad has improved over the last 12 months and this is obvious to all but the most myopic of supporters.
As others have posted, Peeters needs to be backed or sacked. Next Saturday with Watt, Vetokele and Solly involved it maybe a different story or more of the same... Time will tell.
It's going to be an interesting month.
The question is, which area will RD agree to strengthen during January, if either.
I posted yesterday that I believed the time was ripe for a statement of intent from our owner.
I stand by that and also my request that Katrien & Bob, who are ever present at matches, impress on RD the need to strengthen in light of the worrying recent results. Airman replied that he felt Katrien is only a mouthpiece for her boss and that she has no/little influence over who comes in or goes out ( Hopefully I haven't misquoted AB or I'll be for it !)
If that's the case, what role does Karel Freye have in this and, bearing in mind he was at a recent game, would his views have any effect on RD's decisions ? Surely SOMEONE has to present a strong case on behalf of our manager and, although our views may be completely disregarded, our supporters ?
We have a Fans' Forum meeting on Thursday 15th January and I have requested that the matter of the annual VIP meeting with manager/owner/CEO be put on the agenda. This has taken place in the New Year for the past 4 seasons that the scheme has run and I believe this may be our best opportunity for questions to be asked....whether they are answered satisfactorily, is another matter but we can only hope. I'd like to think that Roland himself would grace us with his presence, especially if a new VIP scheme is in the pipeline but that remains to be seen. I'll definitely be highlighting this request at said meeting.
Thoughts, anyone ?
They have all been smash and grabs and hanging on for dear life.