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The Fermi Paradox

If you're interested in any way about space, evolution and the possibilities of life beyond Earth then you'll probably find the Fermi Paradox fascinating. I've just come across this myself, and whilst I've previously pondered various things the following article is very well written and gives some perspective on current theories surrounding the how's and why's.

The general premise is that there are estimated billions of sun like stars in the galaxy along with planets sometimes billions of years older than Earth. If the Earth is typical, then by odds alone there should be thousands of potential advanced civilisations out there. So where is everyone?

It's a long article, so be prepared to lose a good half hour:

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html?doing_wp_cron=1416993671.2402648925781250000000

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Comments

  • Love stuff like this, thanks for posting @Addicted
  • Haven't read the article yet but this rings a bell from one of Richard Dawkins' books. Interesting stuff.
  • Cool hat... Where can you buy them from?
  • No problem VG, wasted some good work time on this today. "We're rare, we're first or we're fucked" is my favourite soundbite.
  • Good lunchtime read that. Ta
  • Very interesting, cheers Addicted.

    I think there absolutely must be other life out there so it's a fascinating question.
  • Where do I start @Addicted‌

    What a good post. I'll tuck into that in a bit. Most of the stuff I have been reading recently is around the universe starting from nothing in quantum fluctuations. If at the quantum level, particles (dark matter) can pop in and out of existence, then why couldn't a whole universe too.

    I'm always frustrated though because I lose the trail of thought when people discuss the curvature of space time. I have to re-read and go over this concept because being a person who lives in a dimension where space and time as a concept impact on my/our very existence, it is hard to step outside yourself and think about space time as a by product of our dimension.

    Also, when they talk about looking at the moon and seeing it as it were 2 seconds ago, the Sun 8 minutes, the nearest galaxy 1000 years ago. We're not wired to comprehend that in the first instance.

    It will also impact upon the 'are we alone' question. Intelligent life (if it exists) will be looking at earth as it was xxx amount of years ago. Also things like Gaia the SDSS are only ever imaging a portion of our universe at a given time. Who knows what else we haven't discovered yet/missed.

    This is a great age for astronomy, I just fear that if we are living in an ever expanding universe, the goal posts are constantly being moved or even hidden

    @ValleyGary‌ you might like this one mate http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106-why-does-anything-exist-at-all?ocid=twert
  • edited November 2014
    cabbles said:



    It will also impact upon the 'are we alone' question. Intelligent life (if it exists) will be looking at earth as it was xxx amount of years ago.

    Our galaxy the Milky Way is approximately 100,000 light years across - so anything viewing earth from anywhere is our galaxy would see earth as it was no more than 100,000 years ago. Atmospheric oxygen appeared on earth 3 billion years ago - complex cells 2 billion years ago - multi-cellular organisms 1 billion years ago - and so on. Even if we spring forward to primates that's 60 million years ago. So a view of an earth capable of sustaining primates could be seen from anywhere in the universe at a radius from earth of 600 x the size of the Milky Way. So they may not be able to detect the Great Wall of China but for sure they would detect a very interesting planet!!

    Are they out there? Almost certainly yes. Would they have the means to travel that far? (assuming the speed of light is a limiting factor) - almost certainly not - it would just take too long.
  • I'm Taurus, what are you?
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  • Who'd have thunk it.

    Millwall fans developed 2 billion years ago.

    I bet they kicked off with the multi cellular organisms a billion years later, coming here knicking our jobs and amoebas.
  • A few inter-planetary voyagers have had a gander at us down here below the atmosphere which keeps us alive, they've seen what we are about and said to one another ... 'nah, what a smelly argumentative and primitive lot they are .. we'll come back in a hundred thousand years time when all humans are extinct, the plants have taken over and all is calm and peaceful, just right for colonisation' .. but 'they' said it in a language akin to Klingon, not human chat
  • Agree that it would be staggeringly naive and arrogant of us to seriously consider we are the only intelligent life out there. However, it just might be that the vastness of the universe is what keeps civilisations apart from each other. The science required to travel interstellar distances is mind-boggling to say the least - and impossible with our current understanding of physics. If you think the Fermi Paradox is a mindf***, take a while to ponder on the multiverse theory. This postulates that there are an infinite number of universes, all as a result of potentialities in other universes. This truly boggles my mind when I think about it.
  • Agree that it would be staggeringly naive and arrogant of us to seriously consider we are the only intelligent life out there. However, it just might be that the vastness of the universe is what keeps civilisations apart from each other. The science required to travel interstellar distances is mind-boggling to say the least - and impossible with our current understanding of physics. If you think the Fermi Paradox is a mindf***, take a while to ponder on the multiverse theory. This postulates that there are an infinite number of universes, all as a result of potentialities in other universes. This truly boggles my mind when I think about it.

    I'm a believer in the multiverse theory Leroy. But I think the problem is that it becomes more of a philosophical question at a point because of the concept and scale etc
  • Isn't there a theory that we can only see 3 of 12 dimensions and there could be things going on around us that the human brain can't comprehend??
  • Isn't there a theory that we can only see 3 of 12 dimensions and there could be things going on around us that the human brain can't comprehend??

    this could be so .. especially after a line of fine cocaine, a bottle of tequila and several puffs of top grade hashish
  • Not worth it's own thread but always find the distances between things in the solar system tough to get into perspective

    http://www.distancetomars.com/
  • Addicted said:

    Not worth it's own thread but always find the distances between things in the solar system tough to get into perspective

    http://www.distancetomars.com/

    Brilliant!

  • Addicted said:

    Not worth it's own thread but always find the distances between things in the solar system tough to get into perspective

    http://www.distancetomars.com/

    That took a while!
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  • Addicted said:

    Not worth it's own thread but always find the distances between things in the solar system tough to get into perspective

    http://www.distancetomars.com/

    Nice one. I have this app I use called APOD. Astral Picture of the Day. This was one of my favourites

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q
  • Isn't there a theory that we can only see 3 of 12 dimensions and there could be things going on around us that the human brain can't comprehend??

    Yeah. There's a famous explanation of this that might help visualise it.

    Say you lived in flatland - where there were only two dimensions (width and height - no depth). Any visitor to your land that was from three dimensional space would appear to instantly materialise, get wider, then narrower, then disappear as they passed through your dimension.

    That's what it would be like if we saw visitors from another dimension pass through ours. We wouldn't be able to comprehend it because the whole concept makes no sense to our three dimensional brains
  • There's an excellent novel called "Skippy Dies" which has a lot of fun with string theory.
  • Love that website, always a perfect way to waste a Friday afternoon.

    I think it was on Brian Cox's latest series he mentioned the theory that there are many planets out there that have the possibility to sustain life, but when you look at what ours has gone through and what we as humans have gone through to be here today the chances are so remote that basically we are the only ones just that we are ridiculously lucky that we are here at all.

    I could have got that completely wrong but it sort of made sense to me.
  • edited December 2014

    Isn't there a theory that we can only see 3 of 12 dimensions and there could be things going on around us that the human brain can't comprehend??

    Yeah. There's a famous explanation of this that might help visualise it.

    Say you lived in flatland - where there were only two dimensions (width and height - no depth). Any visitor to your land that was from three dimensional space would appear to instantly materialise, get wider, then narrower, then disappear as they passed through your dimension.

    That's what it would be like if we saw visitors from another dimension pass through ours. We wouldn't be able to comprehend it because the whole concept makes no sense to our three dimensional brains
    And also a possible explanation for the sighting and then sudden disappearance of UFO's as they move through and out of our three dimensional view of reality. Perhaps they are not extra terrestrial at all - rather a glimpse of a parallel version of our space/time continuum. They could even be us in millions of years time (or a new/different evolved life form on earth).
  • bobmunro said:

    Isn't there a theory that we can only see 3 of 12 dimensions and there could be things going on around us that the human brain can't comprehend??

    Yeah. There's a famous explanation of this that might help visualise it.

    Say you lived in flatland - where there were only two dimensions (width and height - no depth). Any visitor to your land that was from three dimensional space would appear to instantly materialise, get wider, then narrower, then disappear as they passed through your dimension.

    That's what it would be like if we saw visitors from another dimension pass through ours. We wouldn't be able to comprehend it because the whole concept makes no sense to our three dimensional brains
    And also a possible explanation for the sighting and then sudden disappearance of UFO's as they move through and out of our three dimensional view of reality. Perhaps they are not extra terrestrial at all - rather a glimpse of a parallel version of our space/time continuum. They could even be us in millions of years time (or a new evolved life form on earth).
    I know this could apply to every generation, but this is a great time to be alive for both astro and particle physics discoveries.

    This is quite possible IMO bob, given everything I have been reading about various developments recently. You might also like this article I came across the other day. It's in reference to your point above about anyone looking at us from any point of the galaxy seeing us as we were 100,000 years ago.

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2014/12/03/worlds-oldest-engraving-upends-theory-of-homo-sapiens-uniqueness/
  • Addicted said:

    Not worth it's own thread but always find the distances between things in the solar system tough to get into perspective

    http://www.distancetomars.com/

    Wow
  • cabbles said:

    Addicted said:

    Not worth it's own thread but always find the distances between things in the solar system tough to get into perspective

    http://www.distancetomars.com/

    Nice one. I have this app I use called APOD. Astral Picture of the Day. This was one of my favourites

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q
    That is quite something, cheers
  • The most plausible explanation for us not having been in contact with ET in our species history is down to the size of the Universe IMO. The fact that any intelligent civilisation viewing us through a "telescope" from many hundreds, thousands of light years away might not find a blob of lichen clinging to rock somewhere on a planet in a backwater of this galaxy's spiral arm that interesting and worth further investigation. To all intents and purposes, therefore we are actually alone (in our dimension anyway...)
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