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Network Clubs - Standard Liege Season Preview

Interesting preview piece on Standard Liege's season which kicks off shortly.

Points out that having Charlton within the network has weakened Standard's squad with potential signings and investment are being channeled this side of the... er... Channel

http://www.benefoot.net/jpl-preview-standard-liege/

Comments

  • "Standard are not short of money but they are short of a sporting director. Jean-François De Sart left the club after rejecting the opportunity to take up a new role overseeing the ensemble of clubs in the Duchâtelet empire.

    Ah…the empire or the galaxy as some call it. Duchâtelet has fingers in many pies including Charlton and Ujpest. There is a school of thought that says those clubs have been bolstered this summer at Standard’s expense. Luzon could definitely do with Yoni Buyens in midfield and Igor Vetokele should really be firing the goals in at Sclessin and not The Valley, hence the outrage of the supporters. Duchâtelet is having to negotiate more deals himself in conjunction with Israeli agent Dudu Dahan and scout Marc van Osselaer, who had a role in bringing Ezekiel to the club.

    The sad fact is that with the importance of the play-off system Standard justifiably remain implacably opposed to, it’s no longer quite as important to get early runs on the board, which is certainly no excuse for the shambles we have seen this summer. Moves for midfielder Landry N’Guemo and Cédric Bakambu both look to have broken down while a marquee signing is required to lift the spirits. There is interest in signing Nicolas Anelka but that is likely to go down like a lead balloon with Luzon, who could see that as the final straw if he doesn’t get reinforcements elsewhere. Of course, a final assessment can only be made when September comes around."
  • That's a really interesting article, I never really considered how our (fairly decent looking) recruitment over the summer would compare to other "network" clubs. It looks as though, for now, Charlton are the priority - whether that's because this is RD's long term strategy or because he thinks we needed the most intervention remains to be seen.
  • edited July 2014
    interesting viewpoint/insight to say the least, well found
  • Sounds like we have rightfully taken our place at the top of the network.
  • We thought we had problems…

    'The transfer activity during the off-season has done little to whet the appetite of fans hoping les Rouches can go one better this time around. William Vainqueur, the metronome in midfield, finally got his big-money move when he joined Lokomotiv Moscow. Rightback Daniel Opare left for FC Porto on a free and the strike duo that fetched 33 goals between them last season is all but gone.'
  • Interesting read, that websites Twitter page is also a good follow.
    Be daft not to make us his priority, with the PL the goal.
  • edited July 2014
    I assume Sclessin is Liege? Is that their ground?
    If so, interesting that they believe that Ventokle and Buyens should still be playing for SL.
  • Someone is jealous. :-)
  • I assume Sclessin is Liege? Is that their ground?

    Yup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stade_Maurice_Dufrasne
  • Liege made a bid for Vetokele in January. The higher we climb the more there is potential to piss off Liege fans unless both clubs are resourced and strengthened to meet expectations. We all know our need was greater this summer with so many players leaving and Poyet declining to stay not to mention our relegation fight - which may have triggered the Buyens loan together with the construction of a new front six?
    I foresee a real conflict next January and believe that there needs to be either a network director of football or perhaps even two.
    At the moment the other four network clubs can feed on loans and scouting of players not deemed good enough for us nor Liege... But if Alcorcun push on for promotion then they too will need to tap into a higher talent pool.
    It seems Liege were top of the league in March but then screwed up in their play-offs barely registering a win against the top six home and away. If we were in that position we would be a tad annoyed if Cousins or Poyet went on loan to Liege.
    I can see this working but if M.Duchatelet wants to be seen to remain impartial within the group he needs someone in... Which might also reduce the dependency on football agents "helping out" - a situation which is a tad cloudy to be diplomatic.
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  • At home to Charleroi tonight and 2-0 up.

    AA on bench , Thuram not because apparently he has just become a father. Bulot who has been linked with us is also a sub .No sign of ex O M'poko though.

    Kawashima; Stam, Texeira, Arslanagic, Van Damme; Carcela, Marquet, Lumanza, Mujangi Bia; Ezekiel, De Camargo

    Subs: Hubert, Yasar, Mmaee, Milec, Bulot, Ajdarevic, Mbombo

    Their pitch looks as bad as the Valley last season.



    https://twitter.com/d_demyttenaere
  • Now 3-0.
  • Full Time 3-0 to Standard. AA came on.
  • Brilliant spot, @T , thank you. Just back from holiday, I will try to find out what has been happening at Ujpest, and report back on this thread.
  • Richard J said:


    AA on bench , Thuram not because apparently he has just become a father.

    I hope he didn't deliver the baby. He would probably have slapped it away.
  • The Anelka to SL rumours are growing.

    Don't Liege have an Israeli manager ? I would have thought he would not have been impressed by the quenelle gesture. Will this bump someone else out to us?

    http://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2014/nicolas-anelka-in-talks-with-standard-liege/
  • Richard J said:

    The Anelka to SL rumours are growing.

    Don't Liege have an Israeli manager ? I would have thought he would not have been impressed by the quenelle gesture. Will this bump someone else out to us?

    http://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2014/nicolas-anelka-in-talks-with-standard-liege/

    Following the loss of Batshuayi to Marseille, Standard just need to get forwards in and even with Anelka would still be looking abit thin up front
  • Charlton are lucky because we have so much more potential than liege, small fish in a bigger pond kinda thing. We should be happy with our squad. I think liege will have to settle for a worse finish because they didnt cut it when they had to and we did as we finished 18th in the end.
  • They've just signed a striker from Celtic, Tony Watt.

    Standard de Liège ‏@Standard_RSCL 37m

    TRANSFERT - Tony WATT rejoint le Standard! Welcome @AnthonyWatt32

    image
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  • The Trust's Belgian journo correspondent, Douglas de Coninck, doesn't agree with the Benefoot article's thrust at all.

    Read his view here

    Still working on getting a voice from Budapest, BTW.
  • Interesting views Prague my only question would be and this is purely from someone who does not know anything about the journalist, as a Standard fan is it not quite natural he would be more likely to put the positive spin in there favour over players like Vetokele.

    In the same way some of our fans are accused of being rose tinted for being excited about any signing we have made since Roland took control, could not the same be said about his opinion.

    Im just trying to make sense of it all to be honest.
  • Interesting views Prague my only question would be and this is purely from someone who does not know anything about the journalist, as a Standard fan is it not quite natural he would be more likely to put the positive spin in there favour over players like Vetokele.

    In the same way some of our fans are accused of being rose tinted for being excited about any signing we have made since Roland took control, could not the same be said about his opinion.

    Im just trying to make sense of it all to be honest.

    Standard fans are not rose tinted at all, esp when it comes to RD. They are very nostalgic and prefer the old style of management, even if theirs was about the worst run club in Belgian history. They are a weird but very noisy and loyal bunch
  • Interesting views Prague my only question would be and this is purely from someone who does not know anything about the journalist, as a Standard fan is it not quite natural he would be more likely to put the positive spin in there favour over players like Vetokele.

    In the same way some of our fans are accused of being rose tinted for being excited about any signing we have made since Roland took control, could not the same be said about his opinion.

    Im just trying to make sense of it all to be honest.

    Standard fans are not rose tinted at all, esp when it comes to RD. They are very nostalgic and prefer the old style of management, even if theirs was about the worst run club in Belgian history. They are a weird but very noisy and loyal bunch
    Not quite what i meant sorry, im not always the best at getting my point across.

    I just meant as much as it is interesting to read more views, that surely the fact he is a Standard fan lessens the impact, as we all have a tendency to bias our opinions in favour of our club, as we all want to enjoy football(im assuming)

    So when we get told to not get to excited about our signing by a certain few of our own fans, could the same not be said for the opinion that Standard fans would much rather have Watt then Vetokele for instance.

    Im not saying im right or wrong just something that popped in to my head the minute i read he was a Standard fan.
  • @GretnaGreenAddick‌

    Don't worry, yours is a perfectly good question, which I was thinking about as soon as I read his mail.

    I think there are some good reasons to generally trust his view ahead of the Benefoot guy, although the Benefoot article still has some important points which Douglas has not challenged (I'll come back to them).

    It is true that he will want us to read his views as those of a fan rather than a journo. As far as I know he is a news man, not sport, so he's not claiming inside info. However his pedigree is such that he can see through unsubstantiated gossip. The thing that most bothered me about the Benefoot article was the claim that the Standard fans are "outraged". If there is one thing we've learnt about the Standard fans, it is that they are world class at outrage. They pop round to Roland's office and they don't expect coffee and croissants. Yet we have not heard a peep. Razil met up with one of their "Socios" at the Supporters Summit and didn't pick up anything like that.

    Douglas has one advantage over all of us and the Benefoot guys. He has interviewed RD, twice, but before he got involved with Standard. I think therefore he understands RD quite well but he is definitely not his poodle. He has been pretty blunt about the players we've received. "None of them with the possible exception of Ajdarevic, good enough for Standard". I had to laugh when I got an email from him the morning after the Iran-Argentina game. He was gobsmacked by Reza and confirmed he never played like that for Standard. That's why when he sent me an email beginning "believe me, Yoni Buyens will bring you great joy" I sat bolt upright and paid attention. At the same time he has made it clear that if Simon Church is the problem, George Tucudean is not the answer.

    He's quite clear that Buyens was going to leave Standard anyway. Message boards indicate personal issues within the camp, nothing sensational but he does not want to put his name to the stories because he has not as a professional been able to verify them. However such stories would provide the answer to the question "If he is so good, why is he coming to Charlton?" Benefoot thinks it is evidence that RD has switched his emphasis to Charlton. Douglas says that Buyens would have gone somewhere, and that young players are ready to play Buyens' role at Standard.

    If Douglas' version is right, I am actually happier than if Benefoot is right. If the Standard fans believe Benefoot, there will be trouble at t'mill, and I don't think that will do us any good. RD might be forced into reactive behaviour. Much better if he feels he can make us a all a bit happier step by step.

    And this is why I think Buyens may be one up for the network model: Airman Brown said the other day that Tucudean would not be a player on our radar if we were looking on our own. Douglas would agree. He thinks Tucudean is merde (or whatever the Flemish word is). but by the same token, if we were on our own, would we be able to persuade Yoni Buyens to join us, even on loan? Only for a shed load of money, is the answer.

    Benefoot provided the important info that Standard have lost their sporting director, and that therefore RD and the agent Duhan are hands on in transfers. That is not good. So we must still be wary.

    It is all still a bit of a puzzle but that's why I think its important to get hold of well sourced info from the network. Some things will be good, some not, but information is power. And pretty soon we will be able to see the evidence on the pitch.
  • Cheers for the extra information, im looking forward to checking out the new players myself Saturday.
  • I think Douglas was saying that, having played in Belgium and Denmark, Vetokele wanted a bigger stage. My take on this is that if CAFC are travelling to the right end of the table then everyone happy, but if not then he has exposure in this country and perhaps moves?
    Douglas has also gone on record stating Ajdarevic OK but Buyens better...and that Tucudean didn't do it at Liege.
    I don't think this is the end of arrivals from Europe and I for one welcome any insight from fans of other clubs who have seen these players play.
    It would help to hear from Alcorcun and the others just to get an insight into their world. If all clubs are moving forwards, perhaps at different paces then reactive noises can be ignored. But if one or two clubs losing out then there will be friction.
    Another main point about our summer arrivals is that they are mostly under 25... So we now have one of the youngest squads in the division and they are mostly on 2-4 year contracts. This is the new look CAFC with perhaps three in and three out in January ideally helping the squad grow AND the club balance the books.
    Incidentally I totally agree with the need to have a director of football. Getting through this season won't be too hard but for CAFC and Alcorcun to push on towards playoffs in 2015-16 will need skillful retention of the right players and securing the right additions. Perhaps Peeters has coached other players over the years who can help us push on but the higher we go the more precise Duchatelet has to be with new signings.
  • Had a look at Ujpest on Transfermarkt and there is no evidence whatsoever of cash-splash. They have signed a few kids, and renewed the loan of one from Standard. That part of the Benefoot article looks increasingly shaky.
  • Upjest is in hands of his son and they had a massive problem with dets and fraude from the previous owners, they were on the brink of going bankrupt and being deleted from the league a few months back. They havent been splashing cash at all.

    @gretnagreenaddick i get your point though, no worries and i have said it before, the Tucudean i saw in Belgium was a sub par player but i've seen bad players turning out to be good/very good thanks to decent management and confidence, esp strikers.

    Buyens was a fan favourite at Liege because he gives his all, runs like a madman, tackles, scores and has decent technique but he seems to waste a lot of energy in the wrong places and doing the wrong things. I do believe he'll be very good for the Championship though.

    RD needs to be very careful when it comes to Standard, it doesnt take a lot to get them angry and start rebelling, happens once or twice each season anyway. If i look at there roster i think the only available player would be the Japanese guy Ono. Cant judge if he is strong enough but they are looking to loan him so he'll be in the network soon enough.
  • edited August 2014
    A very interesting thread. My own view, for what it's worth, is that Duchatelet is very unlikely to deliberately and overtly favour one of his Clubs over another. I have never believed we were a feeder Club for Standard, destined to live off their rejects and hand-me-downs, and I don't believe now that Standard is being disadvantaged or sacrificed so that we can prosper.

    The best way to understand the so-called Network is to start by trying to infer the strategy and likely action plan for each individual Club, assuming, in the first instance, that each Club is independent. With a set of plausible assumptions in place, the next step is to try to figure out how Network synergies might help each Club to achieve its objectives. It is absolutely clear that Duchatelet believes that these synergies are potentially significant and, for the avoidance of doubt, this means that he believes that each Club has more chance of achieving its objectives inside the Network than it would outside. Only time will tell whether he can turn this vision into a reality.

    It is possible that conflicts might arise between Clubs, perhaps if two Clubs are interested in the same player, for example, but right now dilemmas of this kind, if they exist at all, are likely to be few and far between.

    I know very little about Standard Liege and even less about the likely quality of this season's squad compared to last year's, but I might well be concerned if I was a fan, not because Standard is part of a Network, but because of how Duchatelet may view the Club's economics.

    It's likely that it would be relatively straightforward for Duchatelet to keep Standard in the top 4-6 Clubs in Belgium, without spending a great deal of money, while attracting and developing players and then selling them on at a handsome profit, benefiting from the Standard brand and shop window. European football is also potentially rewarding, of course. However, unfortunately, qualifying directly for the Group stages of the Champions League means negotiating the crapshoot of a four team play-off while getting to the Group stage via the third qualifying and play-off rounds is always going to be very, very hard given the way the seeding works. Moreover, Anderlecht earned just £11m from their participation in 2013.

    Duchatelet may well prefer the bird in the hand of transfer fees received to the two or three in the bush available as and when Standard make the Champions League. The financial judgements simply may not favour building a side which can win the Belgian league year in year out. If this is so Standard's fans will no doubt be quite frustrated, but it won't be the result of Network economics.

    We're in a very different position, of course, at least for now, because we have the prospect of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. However, ironically, we may face a similar fate to Standard if we ever achieve promotion. Our owner may be happy to operate a yo-yo strategy or simply cash in, i.e. collect the parachute monies and re-consolidate in the Championship, again focusing on youth development until the stars align for a second time.

    By the way, based on a very cursory review of what appears to be happening at Duchatelet's other Clubs, Carl Zeiss, Alcorcon and Ujpest seem to be operating almost entirely outside the Network. Alcorcon do appear to have strengthened, but all of their recruits are local, their Standard loans having returned at the end of last season, while Ujpest have renewed just one Standard loan, a Montenegron who Standard signed from Vojvodina and who, as far as I can tell, has never played for them. Of course, with the signings of Boyens, Ben Haim and Tucudean and the loan of Parzyszek to Sint-Truiden, we have been the primary network player this summer and, hopefully, the major beneficiary of synergies too.

    Finally, the Benefoot comment about de Sart surprised me. The possibility that he left Standard after turning down the opportunity to oversee all Clubs in the Network is intriguing, but is it really credible? Even if he did turn down what would appear to be a fascinating and important role, why does it follow that he'd lose his current job? Perhaps I'm just a cynic, but I still believe it's far more likely that his contract wasn't renewed because his hands were all over January's screw up. We've all focused on Charlton and Chris Powell as the victims in this saga, but Duchatelet must have been furious. Not only did the players moved to Charlton fail to improve the side, but they were also a major source of tension between Duchatelet and the manager he was trying to build a relationship with. It would be surprising if nobody was held accountable.
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Roland Out Forever!