Grounds for optimism this year. Still uncertain about the whole network thing but no doubt whatsoever that RD is spending money, tarting the place up etc and the squad is beginning to come together at least in terms of numbers. A mixture of hope and curiosity for me. Last year pre-season was just awful with a sense of stagnation and decline about the place. Hate the new kiut though!!!!
New owner with deep pockets making investment on and off the pitch and backing his head coach is a huge change and improvement on last summer.
Much needed refurbishment and even basic repairs and repainting not done under the last regime taking place.
An owner who appears to be here for the long term rather than just hoping to sell ASAP also brings at least some stability and direction as opposed to the inertia and lack of concern of the last lot.
Nearly all players signed up to longer term deals so a much stronger position that last summer when many of the "assets" were only a year away for leaving on a free. And as we have seen some of those first team regulars did leave for nothing so we lost out on both their talents and a fee.
Said it then and say it now, letting the contracts OF THE ASSETS run down was a huge mistake no matter how some try to spin it. The fringe players would have been let go regardless. TJ and MS couldn't afford new deals for the assets, hoping the problem would become someone elses as it turned out it did. It wasn't a clever strategy, it was negligence.
A new CEO and a more sensible management structure. KM a huge improvement on the invisible Prothero and the now departed Bradshaw.
Still been a bumpy ride with three coaches in 5 months, key players leaving and some long serving back room staff having departed such as Paddy and Paul Ellis, Paul Hart also gone although I think the academy is still strong. And I think it will continue to be a bumpy ride for a while yet.
Communication still not as open and proactive as I would like (others can say it doesn't matter to them which is fine but it does to me) but we shall see how that changes, as promised once the summer is over.
The lack of updates on the academy build, Gomez's contract and some other news is bizarre at best, worrying at least.
On the pitch a lot of unknowns in Peters, Igor etc and a lot of young players who all hope will step up straight away but we can't be sure of that. But Peters seems a good fit for Charlton IMHO.
So optimistic and looking forward, as ever, to a new season, new players, new victories.
Very hopeful this season but then I was last season in the hope there was some sort of plan in place. I always think there is huge importance in how you start the season and this year this could be even more important than in recent years. The win against Bournemouth in League 1 with the new CP team really gave good hope to fans. The deflating defeat with 10 men against the Hammers and JFH playing in midfield and an upcoming tough opening fixture list did the opposite. Still recall the worry of Curbishley's first season in sole charge when a 0-0 draw at Barnet and defeat to WBA raised concerns until the introduction of Bowyer. It does not make or break your season of course but an encouraging display at Brentford will hopefully set up a marker for a good season in prospect.
Nearly all players signed up to longer term deals so a much stronger position that last summer when many of the "assets" were only a year away for leaving on a free. And as we have seen some of those first team regulars did leave for nothing so we lost out on both their talents and a fee.
Said it then and say it now, letting the contracts OF THE ASSETS run down was a huge mistake no matter how some try to spin it. The fringe players would have been let go regardless. TJ and MS couldn't afford new deals for the assets, hoping the problem would become someone elses as it turned out it did. It wasn't a clever strategy, it was negligence.
Still been a bumpy ride with three coaches in 5 months, key players leaving and some long serving back room staff having departed such as Paddy and Paul Ellis, Paul Hart also gone although I think the academy is still strong. And I think it will continue to be a bumpy ride for a while yet. LLL&BH
Except @Henry Irving there's another way to look at it... "Three coaches in 5 months"? Or: We've had a manager (sacked) followed by an interim (Riga) to keep us up, followed by the appointment of a new head coach appointed by a new owner. I would suggest that is what happened as it is little less random and respects the fact that M. Duchatelet knows what he is doing.
On the player side we had a squad of 37 players. 11(30%) were released, 6(16%) were loans and 9(25%) were signed up on long term contracts by the previous owners. To this Duchatelet has added Reza, Nego and Piotr.
We had a handful of players who fans would have liked to have keep...and guess what? Three of them, Jackson, Wiggins and Morrisson signed. Hamer, Wood and Dervite fucked off - don't want to wear our shirt...so why mourn their passing?
Poyet - very big thread on the matter but as obvious as the dogs bollocks he was never signing for us... Why else did every other U23 talent sign but not him - negligence, conspiracy theory or pure paranoia!
So three players out of 37 left after being offered new deals. That's right 10% of the squad. That is the hallmark of a deliberate strategy with excellent execution. It has enabled Duchatelet to take the basis of a young vibrant squad which is more "made in Charlton" than it has ever been and add to it four players worth £5M in the last few weeks with rumours of another three to come.
You still don't get it even after the "sales brochure" was leaked?! Charlton became a tradable club and not a basket case because the previous owners offered Duchatelet a blank canvas with a blinding academy with zero long term commitment to middle of the road older second tier players and the then management team. The squad built in 2011 was good enough to get us out of League 1 but why ignore the fact that our club has been turned around without the need for administration.
What amazes me is that you still post this negligence and no strategy stuff even after the £1M players start arriving to fill the shirts vacated so recently. The current situation did not happen by accident. There may have been individual errors but in the end we stayed up and have lost less money as a club than at anytime since Curbs left thanks to player sales, cutting costs and a cup run.
In the bigger picture does it really matter if Hamer and Dervite go? Did everyone think they were worldbeaters last summer? We spent the whole season in the bottom six ffs. Every talented player u23 was signed up on a long term deal and I need to name them because you just don't get it! Cousins, Fox, Lennon, Harriott, Solly, Wiggins, Piggott...and now Gomez. And they are all better players than they were 12 months ago, adding to their value - I expect them to improve again this season. They drew a line at age 23 and said if your under that and good then we are signing you. If you are older that take your chances. I'm sure some were calling for Evina to be given a longer deal last summer but again, the right call was made.
The complete and absolute transformation of the squad this summer (not yet finished) is because the previous owners did not follow madhouse schemes of rewarding aging players in the bottom three with bigger deals. They went with the academy players plus who they signed in 2011. And left it to new owners to sign up Wiggins, Morrison and Jacko. Our club is now the Academy team + million pound signings from Belgium and other small european nations where football salaries are lower than the Championship. This is very different from a squad of 37 consisting many journeymen and free transfers. A melee of £200K players jostling - never mind the quality feel the width of the squad lol
The undeniable outcome is that new owner arrives and within 6 months we have several players arriving who are far superior (on paper) to last summers squad. Rumours of signing strikers from PSG ffs as well as out of contract icelandic wingers with valuations of £1.5M. Perhaps we get a loan or two from West Ham perhaps not?
So time to move on and enjoy what is about to be unveiled rather than attack the architects of today's situation - there would be no club if the previous owners had not got us out of League 1 AND structured the club for a sale. The state of the pitch 6 months ago was a mess but the opportunities and potential which Duchatelet is now exploiting was created deliberately as part of selling the club.
No blame, no regrets, no fear...Not angry at you Henry, no angst against the previous owners, no pantomime villains - no thanks. Another couple of signings and a decent start and the bookies will revise their odds very quickly. We are rapidly leaving the likes of Blackpool, Rotherham, Millwall and Brentford behind in their relegation battle as we rejoin the mid-table group and start to compete with Ipswich, Bournemouth and Brighton. If we keep going at this rate then the January window is going to be very interesting. And all because the previous owners did not offer long term contracts!
well by all accounts, we are on a much more stable footing but the bumpy ride, as nicely described above, does make it seem somewhat precarious..
It takes time to build up a real trust and confidence in a radical owner like we have in Duchatelet. Its weird methods, unknowns and a lot less domestic comfort and reassurance from familiarity.
Football is indeed global and I think its an interesting proposal and makes sense to scale up ownership in a multinational network. Someone in Staprix must know what they are doing on the scouting side as SL have a terrific record on player asset return since RD took over. It was great to see a Charlton player at the World Cup. i
It is hardly CAFC1905 though is it? I can understand why some supporters might lose affinity with all the non-local influences. There has been a lot of change already with not much time for sentiment. No doubt more testing times to come. One thing that is truly CAFC is the fans ability to adapt and thrive in times of change...it is a friendly and welcoming club, everyone likes us because we care.
It's all a bit knife-edge given the whole issue of network governance is still up in the air... IMO this issue will snowball as it is going to give clubs a competitive advantage so the big boys may want in but how can you have a "mothership" of Barca with Spurs Lazio and Porto owned by UAE as a network? Its not competitive.
I was truly cheesed off with CAFC last summer as we were an embarrassament, or moreover those 2 punks had tainted us with a culture of crap and it was only ever going to get worse. They took liberties with the purchase ledger hanging out for their big deal. Happens a lot but the pitch then turned into a joke issue.
last pre season - 2 Skint Pikeys this pre season - Andre Bikey
I went into last season hoping we wouldn't get relegated. I want us to aim higher than that, but given my lack of knowledge about the players we've got in thus far, I can't claim to be too certain. But I know one thing, it'll look a lot better to watch, whatever the score!
I take heart from the fact that a man willing to spend money on tarting up a stadium must have the best intentions for the club, and therefore the squad too. So good question, cos now I've written it down, I realise I'm feeling very optimistic indeed.
seriousy_red, you are such a spin doctor. I agree with a lot of what you say, but there are is also a lot of spin.
An example - you state that Solly & Wiggins are better players than 12 months ago, when clearly they are not.
The fact that RD bought the club and we are where we are now, doesn't make Jimenez and Slater's policies, of not spending any money, renewing the better player contracts, right. We could have got fees for Hamer & Dervite if we had. Letting the pitch become the worst in English professional football was not a great strategy.
I could go on picking your post apart, but there's too much spin / exaggeration / untruths to bother.
If you stick to telling the truth and stop the exaggeration and mistruths, you might find that people start listening to you.
seriousy_red, you are such a spin doctor. I agree with a lot of what you say, but there are is also a lot of spin.
An example - you state that Solly & Wiggins are better players than 12 months ago, when clearly they are not.
The fact that RD bought the club and we are where we are now, doesn't make Jimenez and Slater's policies, of not spending any money, renewing the better player contracts, right. We could have got fees for Hamer & Dervite if we had. Letting the pitch become the worst in English professional football was not a great strategy.
I could go on picking your post apart, but there's too much spin / exaggeration / untruths to bother.
If you stick to telling the truth and stop the exaggeration and mistruths, you might find that people start listening to you.
I totally agree with you CE. I usually do not read Seriously Reds posts. But I did this one and it reminds me of an episode of Jackanory. No offence Intended SR but your argument is like a piece of plastercine, you mould it to the way you think it should be.
Much better than last season because you feel that the gaps can be plugged, and RD has shown a willingness to do so. You can't ask for much more than that with player recruitment. Players have been signed from various different sources and they look decent. We still need more, but the transfer window isn't even halfway to closing yet.
In comparison, last season we felt that there was next to no chance of anyone coming in at all. Important players were released and then not replaced. I remember everyone - me included - getting seriously excited over Church and Sordell because we actually had some strikers. The number 9 and number 10 shirt being vacant until nearly kick-off was terrifying. The fact key players' contracts only had a year to run on them as well was a cause for concern, and with good reason as it turned out.
seriously_red seems to be painting MS & TJ as some glorious clairvoyant characters who offered RD a blemish-free football club but that is hilarious bunk. They ran out of money, weren't willing to put anything else into the club and left Powell trying to keep the ship afloat with no support. For two seasons. We've been incredibly lucky that the Academy has produced so many first team ready kids who could step in towards the end of the season but pretending that we had some unstoppable set of youngsters ready to come through, and that's why Hamer, Dervite et al were allowed to run their contracts down is just a lie. I think calling it spin is too generous.
I suppose I am more optimistic than this time last year. As @Garrymanilow comments - we were scrabbling around for someone to fill the 9 and 10 shirts later than this time last year.
Frankly, I find it hard to judge. I know nothing about most of the signings and the two I have seen (TBH and Bikey) will need to prove that they are "up for it" as the Championship is not place for players going through the motions.
I guess I am not clear who the key players are yet whereas last year it was, arguably, clearer. Of course, as usual injuries/loss of form will hit one or two. It will be a lot easier to judge when we see them playing as a team - and I don't mean at Welling! Then, cautious optimistic can move forward a step.
Ok no spin or embellishments! The previous owners clearly could not or would not fund the club last season but it didn't fall over and they sold it to someone who clearly has the knowledge AND finance to pick up the baton. They very clearly did not award new contracts to over 24s as it would cost them cash they wouldn't get back and would also dilute the offering which was a great academy, decent ground and no long term liabilities to older players. I rated Hamer (and Kermorgant) and think they've made a football mistake by moving on. But the value of the replacements appearing at the rate of two or three per week means we can enjoy the next leg of the journey without them. I've been criticised for spin, mindless optimism and all sorts for what I have posted and envisioned since April. The irony is that M.Duchatelet is going far further than I hoped in terms of player acquisition. We are clearly availing of the Liege scouting network given the origins of these players and I have consistently maintained that this would work to our advantage.
On paper we are going have a team to match our brand new pitch and shiny seats. With most players on two or three year deals I am still banking on 2015-16 to be big for us, but who knows, we might be in a very good place by Christmas?
I'm positive but I still have no idea how it'll turn out. What if the players from abroad don't settle, or aren't as good as we hope? One thing Powell definitely did very well was sign the right personalities and build a great team spirit. Bikey and Ben Haim could be good for us, but they might turn out to be unfit and not up for battling in the Championship. What if certain young players don't make the step up as expected? What if Peeters struggles tactically, or we don' t the right balance of work rate and quality on the ball? It's looking like we're signing players that will do well at this level but we thought the same when Pardew spent a lot of money following relegation.
I'm positive but I still have no idea how it'll turn out. What if the players from abroad don't settle, or aren't as good as we hope? One thing Powell definitely did very well was sign the right personalities and build a great team spirit. Bikey and Ben Haim could be good for us, but they might turn out to be unfit and not up for battling in the Championship. What if certain young players don't make the step up as expected? What if Peeters struggles tactically, or we don' t the right balance of work rate and quality on the ball? It's looking like we're signing players that will do well at this level but we thought the same when Pardew spent a lot of money following relegation.
Bloody hell Scoham. There's no nedd to start bring common sense into the debate :-) seriously_red take note :-)
Thing is, if we had kept Hamer, Kermorgant, Stephens and Dervite AND added the new guys, what a great position we'd be in now.
Good Championship experienced players, promising youngsters coming through as well as foreign players that are good on paper but may need time to settle. The annoying thing is, this would have been realistic if the previous owners hadn't tried to save as much money as possible.
100% better than last pre season and quite excited to see the new boys but the squad is still thin. Only takes a couple of injuries and some loss of firm and suddenly we look weak again. That said, I'm sure we're not done yet in the transfer market.
Comments
New owner with deep pockets making investment on and off the pitch and backing his head coach is a huge change and improvement on last summer.
Much needed refurbishment and even basic repairs and repainting not done under the last regime taking place.
An owner who appears to be here for the long term rather than just hoping to sell ASAP also brings at least some stability and direction as opposed to the inertia and lack of concern of the last lot.
Nearly all players signed up to longer term deals so a much stronger position that last summer when many of the "assets" were only a year away for leaving on a free. And as we have seen some of those first team regulars did leave for nothing so we lost out on both their talents and a fee.
Said it then and say it now, letting the contracts OF THE ASSETS run down was a huge mistake no matter how some try to spin it. The fringe players would have been let go regardless. TJ and MS couldn't afford new deals for the assets, hoping the problem would become someone elses as it turned out it did. It wasn't a clever strategy, it was negligence.
A new CEO and a more sensible management structure. KM a huge improvement on the invisible Prothero and the now departed Bradshaw.
Still been a bumpy ride with three coaches in 5 months, key players leaving and some long serving back room staff having departed such as Paddy and Paul Ellis, Paul Hart also gone although I think the academy is still strong. And I think it will continue to be a bumpy ride for a while yet.
Communication still not as open and proactive as I would like (others can say it doesn't matter to them which is fine but it does to me) but we shall see how that changes, as promised once the summer is over.
The lack of updates on the academy build, Gomez's contract and some other news is bizarre at best, worrying at least.
On the pitch a lot of unknowns in Peters, Igor etc and a lot of young players who all hope will step up straight away but we can't be sure of that. But Peters seems a good fit for Charlton IMHO.
So optimistic and looking forward, as ever, to a new season, new players, new victories.
LLL&BH
It does not make or break your season of course but an encouraging display at Brentford will hopefully set up a marker for a good season in prospect.
On the player side we had a squad of 37 players. 11(30%) were released, 6(16%) were loans and 9(25%) were signed up on long term contracts by the previous owners. To this Duchatelet has added Reza, Nego and Piotr.
We had a handful of players who fans would have liked to have keep...and guess what? Three of them, Jackson, Wiggins and Morrisson signed. Hamer, Wood and Dervite fucked off - don't want to wear our shirt...so why mourn their passing?
Poyet - very big thread on the matter but as obvious as the dogs bollocks he was never signing for us... Why else did every other U23 talent sign but not him - negligence, conspiracy theory or pure paranoia!
So three players out of 37 left after being offered new deals. That's right 10% of the squad. That is the hallmark of a deliberate strategy with excellent execution. It has enabled Duchatelet to take the basis of a young vibrant squad which is more "made in Charlton" than it has ever been and add to it four players worth £5M in the last few weeks with rumours of another three to come.
You still don't get it even after the "sales brochure" was leaked?! Charlton became a tradable club and not a basket case because the previous owners offered Duchatelet a blank canvas with a blinding academy with zero long term commitment to middle of the road older second tier players and the then management team. The squad built in 2011 was good enough to get us out of League 1 but why ignore the fact that our club has been turned around without the need for administration.
What amazes me is that you still post this negligence and no strategy stuff even after the £1M players start arriving to fill the shirts vacated so recently. The current situation did not happen by accident. There may have been individual errors but in the end we stayed up and have lost less money as a club than at anytime since Curbs left thanks to player sales, cutting costs and a cup run.
In the bigger picture does it really matter if Hamer and Dervite go? Did everyone think they were worldbeaters last summer? We spent the whole season in the bottom six ffs. Every talented player u23 was signed up on a long term deal and I need to name them because you just don't get it! Cousins, Fox, Lennon, Harriott, Solly, Wiggins, Piggott...and now Gomez. And they are all better players than they were 12 months ago, adding to their value - I expect them to improve again this season. They drew a line at age 23 and said if your under that and good then we are signing you. If you are older that take your chances. I'm sure some were calling for Evina to be given a longer deal last summer but again, the right call was made.
The complete and absolute transformation of the squad this summer (not yet finished) is because the previous owners did not follow madhouse schemes of rewarding aging players in the bottom three with bigger deals. They went with the academy players plus who they signed in 2011. And left it to new owners to sign up Wiggins, Morrison and Jacko. Our club is now the Academy team + million pound signings from Belgium and other small european nations where football salaries are lower than the Championship. This is very different from a squad of 37 consisting many journeymen and free transfers. A melee of £200K players jostling - never mind the quality feel the width of the squad lol
The undeniable outcome is that new owner arrives and within 6 months we have several players arriving who are far superior (on paper) to last summers squad. Rumours of signing strikers from PSG ffs as well as out of contract icelandic wingers with valuations of £1.5M. Perhaps we get a loan or two from West Ham perhaps not?
So time to move on and enjoy what is about to be unveiled rather than attack the architects of today's situation - there would be no club if the previous owners had not got us out of League 1 AND structured the club for a sale. The state of the pitch 6 months ago was a mess but the opportunities and potential which Duchatelet is now exploiting was created deliberately as part of selling the club.
No blame, no regrets, no fear...Not angry at you Henry, no angst against the previous owners, no pantomime villains - no thanks. Another couple of signings and a decent start and the bookies will revise their odds very quickly. We are rapidly leaving the likes of Blackpool, Rotherham, Millwall and Brentford behind in their relegation battle as we rejoin the mid-table group and start to compete with Ipswich, Bournemouth and Brighton. If we keep going at this rate then the January window is going to be very interesting. And all because the previous owners did not offer long term contracts!
It takes time to build up a real trust and confidence in a radical owner like we have in Duchatelet. Its weird methods, unknowns and a lot less domestic comfort and reassurance from familiarity.
Football is indeed global and I think its an interesting proposal and makes sense to scale up ownership in a multinational network. Someone in Staprix must know
what they are doing on the scouting side as SL have a terrific record on player asset return since RD took over. It was great to see a Charlton player at the World Cup. i
It is hardly CAFC1905 though is it? I can understand why some supporters might lose affinity with all the non-local influences. There has been a lot of change already with not much time for sentiment. No doubt more testing times to come. One thing that is truly CAFC is the fans ability to adapt and thrive in times of change...it is a friendly and welcoming club, everyone likes us because we care.
It's all a bit knife-edge given the whole issue of network governance is still up in the air... IMO this issue will snowball as it is going to give clubs a competitive advantage so the big boys may want in but how can you have a "mothership" of Barca with Spurs Lazio and Porto owned by UAE as a network? Its not competitive.
I was truly cheesed off with CAFC last summer as we were an embarrassament, or moreover those 2 punks had tainted us with a culture of crap and it was only ever going to get worse. They took liberties with the purchase ledger hanging out for their big deal. Happens a lot but the pitch then turned into a joke issue.
last pre season - 2 Skint Pikeys
this pre season - Andre Bikey
I take heart from the fact that a man willing to spend money on tarting up a stadium must have the best intentions for the club, and therefore the squad too. So good question, cos now I've written it down, I realise I'm feeling very optimistic indeed.
An example - you state that Solly & Wiggins are better players than 12 months ago, when clearly they are not.
The fact that RD bought the club and we are where we are now, doesn't make Jimenez and Slater's policies, of not spending any money, renewing the better player contracts, right. We could have got fees for Hamer & Dervite if we had.
Letting the pitch become the worst in English professional football was not a great strategy.
I could go on picking your post apart, but there's too much spin / exaggeration / untruths to bother.
If you stick to telling the truth and stop the exaggeration and mistruths, you might find that people start listening to you.
He hadn't been able to retain several key players and there was little prospect of bringing good replacements in.
In comparison, last season we felt that there was next to no chance of anyone coming in at all. Important players were released and then not replaced. I remember everyone - me included - getting seriously excited over Church and Sordell because we actually had some strikers. The number 9 and number 10 shirt being vacant until nearly kick-off was terrifying. The fact key players' contracts only had a year to run on them as well was a cause for concern, and with good reason as it turned out.
seriously_red seems to be painting MS & TJ as some glorious clairvoyant characters who offered RD a blemish-free football club but that is hilarious bunk. They ran out of money, weren't willing to put anything else into the club and left Powell trying to keep the ship afloat with no support. For two seasons. We've been incredibly lucky that the Academy has produced so many first team ready kids who could step in towards the end of the season but pretending that we had some unstoppable set of youngsters ready to come through, and that's why Hamer, Dervite et al were allowed to run their contracts down is just a lie. I think calling it spin is too generous.
Frankly, I find it hard to judge. I know nothing about most of the signings and the two I have seen (TBH and Bikey) will need to prove that they are "up for it" as the Championship is not place for players going through the motions.
I guess I am not clear who the key players are yet whereas last year it was, arguably, clearer. Of course, as usual injuries/loss of form will hit one or two. It will be a lot easier to judge when we see them playing as a team - and I don't mean at Welling! Then, cautious optimistic can move forward a step.
They very clearly did not award new contracts to over 24s as it would cost them cash they wouldn't get back and would also dilute the offering which was a great academy, decent ground and no long term liabilities to older players.
I rated Hamer (and Kermorgant) and think they've made a football mistake by moving on. But the value of the replacements appearing at the rate of two or three per week means we can enjoy the next leg of the journey without them.
I've been criticised for spin, mindless optimism and all sorts for what I have posted and envisioned since April. The irony is that M.Duchatelet is going far further than I hoped in terms of player acquisition. We are clearly availing of the Liege scouting network given the origins of these players and I have consistently maintained that this would work to our advantage.
On paper we are going have a team to match our brand new pitch and shiny seats. With most players on two or three year deals I am still banking on 2015-16 to be big for us, but who knows, we might be in a very good place by Christmas?
Good Championship experienced players, promising youngsters coming through as well as foreign players that are good on paper but may need time to settle. The annoying thing is, this would have been realistic if the previous owners hadn't tried to save as much money as possible.
100% better than last pre season and quite excited to see the new boys but the squad is still thin. Only takes a couple of injuries and some loss of firm and suddenly we look weak again. That said, I'm sure we're not done yet in the transfer market.
Even allowing for 2 or 3 youngsters stepping up to the 1st team squad, we surely will need to sign 3 or 4 more experienced players.
I'm in the optimistic camp!