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Safe Standing

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  • Isn't there a difference between the prohibition of standing at games in England and Scotland?
  • se9addick said:

    Isn't there a difference between the prohibition of standing at games in England and Scotland?

    It's law in England, but not in Scotland.
  • A very sensible move, hopefully after a year or two of Celtic proving that this is the way forward the laws in England will be relaxed.
  • It's not a law in England, it's a decision of the Secretary of State, and they could remove the ban and the direction to the licensing authorities to allow standing
  • 1don't get the seat part of the safe standing. Do you have the option to sit and stare at someone's back, or does everyone stand on the seat? Perhaps the seat can be used as a booster for the vertically challenged?

    I think terracing is the way forward.
  • Why does it have to be safe, I quite like all non safe things
  • Good for them. I hope it's a success.
  • Have to have the seats for UEFA tournaments
  • Hopefully it is the start of safe standing being brought in.

    It needs to be brought into the English game sooner rather than later.
  • Although being of the "older generation", I would be happy for some standing to be re-introduced, providing of course it is now considered safe to do so.

    I would also hope that under such circumstances, those fans who choose a seat over standing, stay in their seat!
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  • Great news, although 2,600 looks a token gesture. Let's hope a few more clubs in Scotland follow suit.

    Ps...on a slight downside, I stood on the terrace at Werder Bremen a couple of years ago and there didn't appear to be any sort of reserved space. Because of the confines of the rails, it was really difficult to find a clear space, especially as there was a group of us.
  • It seems it is one standing place for one seat, thus freezing capacity. So why would clubs reduce prices with no prospect of increasing capacity? You just reduce revenue. In other words safe standing amounts to standing in a seated area but with the seat up and with a whole load of extra railings to potentially impede the view when the seats are down (which it seems they would only be in the unlikely event of participation in a UEFA competition). They don't look like comfortable seats with that rail right behind your head.

    I don't see any advantage in these rail seats other than that it would possibly make it less likely that people would insist on standing in designated seating areas. Possibly.

    What is needed is terracing with a restriction on the number of tickets commensurate with a safe capacity. Anyone who went to Peterborough should be able to see the sense in that. The Hillsborough tragedy would not have happened if an appropriate number of tickets had been issued via the clubs, and/or there had been no fencing at pitch side (or the pitch side exit gates had been adequate and properly manned), but it was altogether a different time and culture back then.
  • Yeah, but what would Thatcher have done??
  • Margaret Aspinall, Chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, has a right to be bitter but her comments are just irrational and anti football. Most politicians will be scared to support anything that can be thrown back as not supporting the Hillsborough group, so to that end the Lib Dems might help break the taboo and allow a rational discussion.

    "The Football League has a right to lobby but we'll always oppose all kinds of standing - that's the position of our group and nothing will move us from that position....People are talking about standing yet we have had no justice. We just think people's lives are more important than any atmosphere"

    I am surprised that Liverpool supporters now no longer stand in seated areas at games - well done to them for that discipline though.
  • edited June 2015

    1don't get the seat part of the safe standing. Do you have the option to sit and stare at someone's back, or does everyone stand on the seat? Perhaps the seat can be used as a booster for the vertically challenged?

    I think terracing is the way forward.

    The seats work as part of the rail. They either have to be locked up or down. You don't have an option.

    Here you can see what they look like when the seats are locked up and locked down.

    imageimage

    Rules for Uefa competitions state that venues have to be all seater so it has to be an option for clubs, otherwise they would have to close these areas for European competitions.

    It's surprising that Celtic have been told that it will be one standing supporter to every one seat. Most clubs in Germany offer 3 tickets to ever 2 seats when the rail seating is locked away.
  • 1don't get the seat part of the safe standing. Do you have the option to sit and stare at someone's back, or does everyone stand on the seat? Perhaps the seat can be used as a booster for the vertically challenged?

    I think terracing is the way forward.

    The seats work as part of the rail. They either have to be locked up or down. You don't have an option.

    Here you can see what they look like when the seats are locked up and locked down.

    imageimage

    Rules for Uefa competitions state that venues have to be all seater so it has to be an option for clubs, otherwise they would have to close these areas for European competitions.

    It's surprising that Celtic have been told that it will be one standing supporter to every one seat. Most clubs in Germany offer 3 tickets to ever 2 seats when the rail seating is locked away.
    I can see how this could be deemed safe, maybe even safer than having fans stand in seat only sections. I just don't see the need for it, or the justification for the financial cost of it. If it is going to cost money and it is not going to increase the capacity then either fans would have to agree to pay more to stand or the whole thing is going to cost the clubs for nothing. Those seats don't look as comfortable as normal seats either.
  • 1don't get the seat part of the safe standing. Do you have the option to sit and stare at someone's back, or does everyone stand on the seat? Perhaps the seat can be used as a booster for the vertically challenged?

    I think terracing is the way forward.

    The seats work as part of the rail. They either have to be locked up or down. You don't have an option.

    Here you can see what they look like when the seats are locked up and locked down.

    imageimage

    Rules for Uefa competitions state that venues have to be all seater so it has to be an option for clubs, otherwise they would have to close these areas for European competitions.

    It's surprising that Celtic have been told that it will be one standing supporter to every one seat. Most clubs in Germany offer 3 tickets to ever 2 seats when the rail seating is locked away.
    I can see how this could be deemed safe, maybe even safer than having fans stand in seat only sections. I just don't see the need for it, or the justification for the financial cost of it. If it is going to cost money and it is not going to increase the capacity then either fans would have to agree to pay more to stand or the whole thing is going to cost the clubs for nothing. Those seats don't look as comfortable as normal seats either.
    You might be right for Charlton. Celtic have a large fanbase but an underfilled ground and another year without their one big opponent. They might feel that offering the standing experience would boost atmosphere, and with better atmosphere, more people might actually go to the matches.

    Same as lots of people add a football match to a trip to Germany/Holland and some go to Germany just for that experience, except there are plenty of Celtic fans in Glasgow who might decide to start going again.

    Or it could be that sometimes a club needs to offer its fans something rather than looking at everything through the bank balance.
  • In Bremen there were two steps between the rails, meaning that two people could stand for every seat.

    Does anyone know the system that Dortmund have behind their goal? (The Yellow Wall). It doesn't look like the safe standing system to me.
  • edited June 2015
    Agree with IA. Plus terracing is another reason why a good number of fans are turning to non-league football.
  • Dortmund has really long crash barriers and short gaps between the barriers (5 or 6 steps maximum), and then they unbolt the barriers and bolt in seats for Champions League game
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  • 1don't get the seat part of the safe standing. Do you have the option to sit and stare at someone's back, or does everyone stand on the seat? Perhaps the seat can be used as a booster for the vertically challenged?

    I think terracing is the way forward.

    The seats work as part of the rail. They either have to be locked up or down. You don't have an option.

    Here you can see what they look like when the seats are locked up and locked down.

    imageimage

    Rules for Uefa competitions state that venues have to be all seater so it has to be an option for clubs, otherwise they would have to close these areas for European competitions.

    It's surprising that Celtic have been told that it will be one standing supporter to every one seat. Most clubs in Germany offer 3 tickets to ever 2 seats when the rail seating is locked away.
    The seated configuration looks dreadful but given the only time it would come into play would be if Charlton were in a European competition I'd live with it
  • Simonsen said:

    Agree with IA. Plus terracing is another reason why a good number of fans are turning to non-league football.

    Is it just the terracing though? I can think of many different reasons as to why fans would be tempted to turn their backs of the expensive, Sky dominated clubs, where it is almost impossible to even get a ticket, and where the distribution of wealth and, therefore, chances of success are predetermined, but I'd be surprised if terracing was the only, or even a major factor.

    Ultimately I don't think any of the clubs in the top two tiers would be worried about losing revenue to non league clubs due to their own lack of terracing.

    However, if enough studies have been carried out to confirm that terracing is a major factor as to why fans are turning to non league I'd be interested in seeing them.
  • Simonsen said:

    Agree with IA. Plus terracing is another reason why a good number of fans are turning to non-league football.

    Is it just the terracing though? I can think of many different reasons as to why fans would be tempted to turn their backs of the expensive, Sky dominated clubs, where it is almost impossible to even get a ticket, and where the distribution of wealth and, therefore, chances of success are predetermined, but I'd be surprised if terracing was the only, or even a major factor.

    Ultimately I don't think any of the clubs in the top two tiers would be worried about losing revenue to non league clubs due to their own lack of terracing.

    However, if enough studies have been carried out to confirm that terracing is a major factor as to why fans are turning to non league I'd be interested in seeing them.
    Terracing is just another factor....all part of what some see as a more attractive package. It's not just SKY dominated clubs that are losing supporters to non-league....its clubs like Charlton and Millwall, who have plenty of tickets available for every game.
  • Simonsen said:

    Simonsen said:

    Agree with IA. Plus terracing is another reason why a good number of fans are turning to non-league football.

    Is it just the terracing though? I can think of many different reasons as to why fans would be tempted to turn their backs of the expensive, Sky dominated clubs, where it is almost impossible to even get a ticket, and where the distribution of wealth and, therefore, chances of success are predetermined, but I'd be surprised if terracing was the only, or even a major factor.

    Ultimately I don't think any of the clubs in the top two tiers would be worried about losing revenue to non league clubs due to their own lack of terracing.

    However, if enough studies have been carried out to confirm that terracing is a major factor as to why fans are turning to non league I'd be interested in seeing them.
    Terracing is just another factor....all part of what some see as a more attractive package. It's not just SKY dominated clubs that are losing supporters to non-league....its clubs like Charlton and Millwall, who have plenty of tickets available for every game.
    Fair enough but based on the 'uprising' that the Supporters' Trust started this year I think you'd find it a challenge to make the point that apart from no terracing all Charlton fans are as happy as they've ever been!

    You did say that 'terracing is another reason why a good number of fans are turning to non-league football'. I read that as if you install terracing fans will stop turning to non-league and non-league fans will come back to watch the top sides. If you apply that to Charlton, and they don't significantly reduce the price of entrance, I seriously doubt that we would tempt any fans to stop watching non-league football and come to The Valley if they were allowed to 'legally' stand up. I say legally as there seems to be a standing area at The Valley already!

    On that basis your comment was, maybe unintentionally, misleading and is the sort of, unfounded, PR that is used to convince fool people into believing things that are not true.
  • Rothko said:

    Dortmund has really long crash barriers and short gaps between the barriers (5 or 6 steps maximum), and then they unbolt the barriers and bolt in seats for Champions League game

    From what I have seen, the home end at Freiberg and the away end at Mainz were no better/safe than the terracing that used to be in the Covered End (pre 1981), occasional crash barriers and an expanse of standing. Although I doubt either team have an immediate worry of getting in to Europe so may not need an efficient system of swapping to all-seated.

    I have sat in rail seating (as seating not standing) at Wolfsburg and it was no less comfortable than normal seating.
  • edited May 2016
    Celtic to introduce safe standing for next season

    Coincides with Gers returning to the top division...what could go wrong?*

    * no implication anything will go wrong and every hope this will be a success for further rollout across the league
  • Tried and tested in Germany on a huge scale. Should be available to any club who wants and can afford it.
  • Fiiish said:

    Celtic to introduce safe standing for next season

    Coincides with Gers returning to the top division...what could go wrong?*

    * no implication anything will go wrong and every hope this will be a success for further rollout across the league

    Will only be a few blocks and I assume season ticket only so controlled and by the looks of it, the area of their ground that stands every week anyway.

    Still a big step in the right direction for the campaign.
  • It's gone, let it go!! The days of standing have long gone! Accept the positive change, grasp that you're in 2016, take a seat and stop peeing everyone off when you ignorantly stand up for attention! If you want to stand for 2 hours without a break get a job in the Household Cavalry.

    You've grown up now, get over it.
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