Looks much better, the extra man in midfield and defence gives us a much more solid look providing the two wide men work their bollocks as i thought they did today. Maybe just maybe it's not all doom and gloom.
4-5-1 is all the craze (Tottenham style) in the Premier League at the moment, it's all about packing the midfield out and controlling the game, I've always noticed we never control midfields, when we do we can tear teams apart. I'm happy with 3-5-2 or 4-5-1 if one of Church/Kermy is out.. Although the 4-5-1 adds confusion to wingbacks. It worked let's try it again!
I like it. Extra man in the middle, and extra man at the back too. Plus 2 up front which you don't get from 451. With Dervite able to play in midfield it makes it easy to change to 442 or a 451 without making a sub too
I think its the sort of thing we can chop and change depending on the opposition and their style of play, set up on a game to game basis
Also no coincidence that with 3 centre halves on the pitch and Jacko back for his aerial presence (from the left) and set-piece ability (from the right) we start to look dangerous from set plays. More men to think about marking... makes a big difference from 2 centre halves, Kermorgant and 7 titches.
I think we should always play it at home. It can be both defensive or attacking. It solves the midfield problem and we really do pose a threat at corners with our fantastic delivery from JJ and Stephens and the players who are good in the air we can put in the box. Leicester couldn't handle it!!!! They were lucky to concede only 2 goals from corners in all honesty.
I wrote this under another post .. it fits better on here:
didn't see the game but the consensus is that the 3 5 2 formation was a success .. I am surprised. If this line up is a partial cure for our midfield weakness, then stick by it. How was Stephens? .. he really is so inconsistent .. does a five man midfield suit him better than a four ?
so it seems ... @ Barnsley, the only game I have been to so far this season, in a 4man alongside Gower, he was absolutely, incontrovertibly rubbish .. it looks like we will get 3 5 2 for the rest of the season ..
With the players we have it looks balanced. Stephens was good and looked far more confident and therefore involved. Pritchards energy was an absolutely huge part of yesterday's success. Still think Jackson needs better fitness to be as effective as we know he can be. Thought he struggled a little yesterday. Wiggins still not back to his best either but getting there. I'm still not convinced by Wilson. Gower and Cousins off the bench was also very pleasing to see that quality of replacement.
Was my first game for a while, but comfortably the best I've seen both Stephens and Wilson play. Also very impressed which Church, tireless running, with a bit of intelligence too, plus good hold up play.
Pritchard was outstanding, not just the expected hassle and harry, but showed some quality on the ball which was good to see. Jackson didn't look 100% fit, drifted in and out the game a bit. Was my first viewing of Cousins and Gower, both did well.
Only low points were some dodgy defending once Leicester were down to 10 men. We kept our shape superbly up to that point then seemed all over the place when in theory it should have been easier.
Worked v leicester but they also played 3 - 5 - 2.
It suits the strenghts and weaknesses of our squad,
If we are chasing a game then what?
The line up still lacks pace in the back three and up front, (Church is busy rather than fast). Obika off the bench would have been a great option have have late on.
And so much relies on the wing backs. At least in Wilson and Evina we have good cover.
Its another option. Some days 442 will be better, others 451 but it worked.
Morrison had a really good game on the right side of defence and young Piggot (sorry if that is the wrong spelling) did all that could have been asked of him so in my opinion Obika would not have offered more and it was brave of CP to bring the youngster at a critical time
I actually think Wilson would be better suited to 352 than Solly, And it allows us to play a much more fluid game. Harriott and Green better work on their defending though if they aim to get back in the team
I know others are not convinced but I agree with Henry that Obika would offer us something extra. I hope Sordell settles and can offer us that pace, strength and eye for goal that Obika did.
If I was Sordell I'd be a bit upset that I'd been relegated to 4th choice striker though!
Sordell has to prove that he understands the team work ethic, and he to reprove that he is a decent footballer and cannot live off his reputation. He also needs to prove that he wants to be here, if not then back to Bolton. There is no space for a Hasselbaink like billy big boots attitude, the team and the charlton crowd needs to see a strong work ethic. Thats why Charlton fans have taken to Church, he has got a great attitude.
If I was Sordell I'd be a bit upset that I'd been relegated to 4th choice striker though!
Sordell has to prove that he understands the team work ethic, and he to reprove that he is a decent footballer and cannot live off his reputation. He also needs to prove that he wants to be here, if not then back to Bolton. There is no space for a Hasselbaink like billy big boots attitude, the team and the charlton crowd needs to see a strong work ethic. Thats why Charlton fans have taken to Church, he has got a great attitude.
Happy to give him a chance to prove himself.
Hopefully you aren't suggesting sordell has a hasselbaink-like attitude as I've not seen or heard anything to suggest that. I think he's also a good player and wondered why piggott was on instead (who I though did very well indeed btw).
Church scored before sordell so he's in the team now - sometimes it goes like that.
I really thought that yesterday was the best I've seen us play in a long time; very long. I can only assume it was the formation that achieved this.
We looked dangerous on the counter, had some brilliant attacking runs and - had the opposition goalkeeper not been such a good opponent - I fear we could've ended that game out of sight. (3 or 4 at least.)
Surprisingly, I actually think this style of play suits Wilson more than Solly - although I know Solly can be very good when he's making his runs. It definitely rules Green out due to his lack of his defensive skills though.
As for the left, it seemed to bring the Wiggins of old out again - and he looked sharp with some lovely link-up with Jackson (ala L1 days) but without the onus being on Jackson to make runs. I'm not quite sure where I see Harriott fitting in unfortunately.
At the end of the day though, it was a very good game and the formation suited the opposition we were faced. I think this offers a nicer solution to 4-5-1 that we seemed to favour at times away from home last season, but ultimately - this is just another tool in CP's toolbox.
4-5-1 is still going to be a decent formation for those teams who are dangerous on the counter, have a strong midfield and are quite aggressive in play. Presumably there is a use-case for 4-4-2 still too; and naturally these two formations still require "wingers", Harriott and Green/Wilson.
Based on the team performance yesterday - and having that team available from now on, with the obvious addition of Solly, I think CP is the man to make the best of this squad and keep us safe.
I can't see 352 working in all circumstances. It does show that, given the players we have got, that it can work in some circumstances. Not sure that works against teams with quick wingers.
I don't think that we have the players to play 442 against most teams in this division.
It does evidence that we benefit from 3 in the middle, which allows us to play Pritchard in the centre midfield as the dynamo, breaking up play outfield midfielder, a creative player in stephens / Gower and Johnnie Jackson, who can do a bit of both. As long as the midfield 3 remember their individual roles and remember that one of them has to protect the defensive line.
The spirit and energy which the team played with was encouraging for the season ahead.
If I was Sordell I'd be a bit upset that I'd been relegated to 4th choice striker though!
Sordell has to prove that he understands the team work ethic, and he to reprove that he is a decent footballer and cannot live off his reputation. He also needs to prove that he wants to be here, if not then back to Bolton. There is no space for a Hasselbaink like billy big boots attitude, the team and the charlton crowd needs to see a strong work ethic. Thats why Charlton fans have taken to Church, he has got a great attitude.
Happy to give him a chance to prove himself.
Hopefully you aren't suggesting sordell has a hasselbaink-like attitude as I've not seen or heard anything to suggest that. I think he's also a good player and wondered why piggott was on instead (who I though did very well indeed btw).
Church scored before sordell so he's in the team now - sometimes it goes like that.
Only see Sordell play once and read the Bournemouth reports where he was poor. No idea about his attitude but he didn't look that enthusiastic against Middlesborough. Friedman doesn't want him at Bolton so he's shipped out on loan, back to London, which he may be ok with but may think he deserves to be with a stronger team. Don't know really, just speculating. He had only just joined. Hopefully it is not a touch of the JFHs.
One thing is for sure is that he has to reprove himself and show that he wants to be at charlton, is up for the fight and shows appropriate professional commitment, which should stand him in good stead for a move elsewhere, if thats what he wants.
Not written him off by any stretch, based on 2 games and a cup game. Happy to give him a chance.
Does anyone know what formation our next few opponents play? Does 3-5-2 work if the opponents are playing 4-4-2 with pace on the wings?
It obviously works for us for all the reasons mentioned on here and the post match thread and it also allows the club to run a thinner squad. To get a decent 4-4-2 side week in week out will IMHO require a number of players to be signed. The difference in Stephens was amazing and I was about to write him off as a player who will disappear when his contract ends... but his set piece delivery and passing were top half chmpionship stuff.
3-5-2 is so much more attacking than 4-5-1 and I think Church has earned the right to be the second striker in that. Perhaps Obika turns up on loan in September or perhaps he doesn't - but there is plenty of time for the club to build on this result and get some points in September.
Seriously Red- Watford also use a 3-5-2 system. That will be a real test, as they've been playing that way for over a season now. They build up from the back and keep the ball well, getting the wing backs forward at every opportunity.
Teams playing 4-4-2 against 5-3-2 gamble on their central midfield pair competing effectively against the opposition 3 man central midfield. If they hold their own, they then capitalise on having a full back / winger combination creating 2 v 1 situations against the opposition lone wing back on either side of the pitch.
It's usually a case of who blinks first and changes their system to match-up with the opposition. At Watford last season, CP pulled the right midfielder inside to match up 3 v 3 in the central midfield, leaving Solly to cover the right flank and pick up the Watford left wing back coming forward. The result was an open game and we came out on the right side of a 4-3. A great example of being positive in the choice of system and game-plan. In the Middlesbrough home game we tried to play 2 v 3 and came unstuck.
Some of the posters are also basing the success of the system on Saturday by the result. Don't forget we had a one man advantage for 40 minutes, during which Leicester still created chances and they got around the outside of the three man central defence on a couple of occasions, including the goal. So not a true test, as there wasn't time to see how Pearson had adjusted his tactics to counter our system. The first half had been fairly even, the difference between the two sides was a well executed set play.
Comments
Extra man in the middle, and extra man at the back too. Plus 2 up front which you don't get from 451.
With Dervite able to play in midfield it makes it easy to change to 442 or a 451 without making a sub too
I think its the sort of thing we can chop and change depending on the opposition and their style of play, set up on a game to game basis
didn't see the game but the consensus is that the 3 5 2 formation was a success .. I am surprised. If this line up is a partial cure for our midfield weakness, then stick by it. How was Stephens? .. he really is so inconsistent .. does a five man midfield suit him better than a four ?
Pritchard was outstanding, not just the expected hassle and harry, but showed some quality on the ball which was good to see. Jackson didn't look 100% fit, drifted in and out the game a bit. Was my first viewing of Cousins and Gower, both did well.
Only low points were some dodgy defending once Leicester were down to 10 men. We kept our shape superbly up to that point then seemed all over the place when in theory it should have been easier.
I guess he played 3-5-2 midweek as a dress rehearsal for yesterday
It suits the strenghts and weaknesses of our squad,
If we are chasing a game then what?
The line up still lacks pace in the back three and up front, (Church is busy rather than fast). Obika off the bench would have been a great option have have late on.
And so much relies on the wing backs. At least in Wilson and Evina we have good cover.
Its another option. Some days 442 will be better, others 451 but it worked.
Happy to give him a chance to prove himself.
Church scored before sordell so he's in the team now - sometimes it goes like that.
We looked dangerous on the counter, had some brilliant attacking runs and - had the opposition goalkeeper not been such a good opponent - I fear we could've ended that game out of sight. (3 or 4 at least.)
Surprisingly, I actually think this style of play suits Wilson more than Solly - although I know Solly can be very good when he's making his runs. It definitely rules Green out due to his lack of his defensive skills though.
As for the left, it seemed to bring the Wiggins of old out again - and he looked sharp with some lovely link-up with Jackson (ala L1 days) but without the onus being on Jackson to make runs. I'm not quite sure where I see Harriott fitting in unfortunately.
At the end of the day though, it was a very good game and the formation suited the opposition we were faced. I think this offers a nicer solution to 4-5-1 that we seemed to favour at times away from home last season, but ultimately - this is just another tool in CP's toolbox.
4-5-1 is still going to be a decent formation for those teams who are dangerous on the counter, have a strong midfield and are quite aggressive in play. Presumably there is a use-case for 4-4-2 still too; and naturally these two formations still require "wingers", Harriott and Green/Wilson.
Based on the team performance yesterday - and having that team available from now on, with the obvious addition of Solly, I think CP is the man to make the best of this squad and keep us safe.
I don't think that we have the players to play 442 against most teams in this division.
It does evidence that we benefit from 3 in the middle, which allows us to play Pritchard in the centre midfield as the dynamo, breaking up play outfield midfielder, a creative player in stephens / Gower and Johnnie Jackson, who can do a bit of both. As long as the midfield 3 remember their individual roles and remember that one of them has to protect the defensive line.
The spirit and energy which the team played with was encouraging for the season ahead.
One thing is for sure is that he has to reprove himself and show that he wants to be at charlton, is up for the fight and shows appropriate professional commitment, which should stand him in good stead for a move elsewhere, if thats what he wants.
Not written him off by any stretch, based on 2 games and a cup game. Happy to give him a chance.
Please don't use CP and "toolbox" in the same sentence !
Gave me a funny turn & Mr F had to throw a glass of white over me ..
It obviously works for us for all the reasons mentioned on here and the post match thread and it also allows the club to run a thinner squad. To get a decent 4-4-2 side week in week out will IMHO require a number of players to be signed. The difference in Stephens was amazing and I was about to write him off as a player who will disappear when his contract ends... but his set piece delivery and passing were top half chmpionship stuff.
3-5-2 is so much more attacking than 4-5-1 and I think Church has earned the right to be the second striker in that. Perhaps Obika turns up on loan in September or perhaps he doesn't - but there is plenty of time for the club to build on this result and get some points in September.
Teams playing 4-4-2 against 5-3-2 gamble on their central midfield pair competing effectively against the opposition 3 man central midfield. If they hold their own, they then capitalise on having a full back / winger combination creating 2 v 1 situations against the opposition lone wing back on either side of the pitch.
It's usually a case of who blinks first and changes their system to match-up with the opposition. At Watford last season, CP pulled the right midfielder inside to match up 3 v 3 in the central midfield, leaving Solly to cover the right flank and pick up the Watford left wing back coming forward. The result was an open game and we came out on the right side of a 4-3. A great example of being positive in the choice of system and game-plan. In the Middlesbrough home game we tried to play 2 v 3 and came unstuck.
Some of the posters are also basing the success of the system on Saturday by the result. Don't forget we had a one man advantage for 40 minutes, during which Leicester still created chances and they got around the outside of the three man central defence on a couple of occasions, including the goal. So not a true test, as there wasn't time to see how Pearson had adjusted his tactics to counter our system. The first half had been fairly even, the difference between the two sides was a well executed set play.