Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness. Drivel. Neither Alcoholism or Gambling addiction are illnesses. Nor is drug addiction for that matter. You can't choose to get cancer. You can't choose to get Alzheimer's. You choose to drink or choose to gamble. The more people try to say its an illness or its a disease, the more they're enabling the gambler/drinker by giving them a 'reason' that they fuck their life up (and those of the people that care about them)
I am not sure how much you understand about the subject or whether you just feel no sympathy full stop with problem gamblers, in which case fair enough. The point is that people like Sansom don't have the same control as you do, and can't be judged by the same standards. He doesn't wake up in the morning and think " I can't wait to go skint today'...his first thought will be 'when can I have a bet?'. You and I can walk into a bookies of a Saturday and have a tenner on the football. For people like KS, their brains will be telling them to have a bet every waking minute of the day. It's like having a very loud TV playing inside your head.
There is also no doubt that the proliferation of betting shops and FOBTs in the last ten years now means there are thousands more people like Kenny.
I was referring the the suggestion that Arsenal were going to help him with his problems. Rather like Gazza, there seems to be a lot of public interest in former footballers falling on hard times as though they are more deserving in help to overcome their issues than those that never had fame or excessive wealth.
My wife's sister spent weeks alone in hospital (without her parents) from the age of six right up until she died at eleven because her mum and dad needed to work as they needed the money, yet it would seem that Arsenal are going to help out this former employee because he has drunk and gambled his 'fortune' away.
Maybe the fact that my wife brought this up recently (and doesn't talk about it fondly) influenced me to make the link but I was making the point that even though he was a player I liked back in the day I can't help but think that there are others that have problems worse than his that they had no influence over.
A very harsh post.
Gambling to the extent that Kenny Samson does is an illness, on a par with alcoholism. Samson doesn't have a choice to gamble..short of physical restraint, he cannot stop himself from doing so. Gambling releases some very powerful chemicals in the brain which to some people are very very addictive.
Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness.
Drivel. Neither Alcoholism or Gambling addiction are illnesses. Nor is drug addiction for that matter. You can't choose to get cancer. You can't choose to get Alzheimer's. You choose to drink or choose to gamble. The more people try to say its an illness or its a disease, the more they're enabling the gambler/drinker by giving them a 'reason' that they fuck their life up (and those of the people that care about them)
One of the most ignorant posts I've read on Charlton Life and that's going some. Of course we chose to drink/gamble/take drugs. But I can't imagine there are many who chose to become addicted to those vices.
I think your post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the reasons for addiction. It definitely is a mental illness as its clearly an urge that addicts, without proper help, cannot control of their own accord even when someone without this illness would recognise the disastrous consequences.
I was referring the the suggestion that Arsenal were going to help him with his problems. Rather like Gazza, there seems to be a lot of public interest in former footballers falling on hard times as though they are more deserving in help to overcome their issues than those that never had fame or excessive wealth.
My wife's sister spent weeks alone in hospital (without her parents) from the age of six right up until she died at eleven because her mum and dad needed to work as they needed the money, yet it would seem that Arsenal are going to help out this former employee because he has drunk and gambled his 'fortune' away.
Maybe the fact that my wife brought this up recently (and doesn't talk about it fondly) influenced me to make the link but I was making the point that even though he was a player I liked back in the day I can't help but think that there are others that have problems worse than his that they had no influence over.
A very harsh post.
Gambling to the extent that Kenny Samson does is an illness, on a par with alcoholism. Samson doesn't have a choice to gamble..short of physical restraint, he cannot stop himself from doing so. Gambling releases some very powerful chemicals in the brain which to some people are very very addictive.
Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness.
Drivel. Neither Alcoholism or Gambling addiction are illnesses. Nor is drug addiction for that matter. You can't choose to get cancer. You can't choose to get Alzheimer's. You choose to drink or choose to gamble. The more people try to say its an illness or its a disease, the more they're enabling the gambler/drinker by giving them a 'reason' that they fuck their life up (and those of the people that care about them)
One of the most ignorant posts I've read on Charlton Life and that's going some. Of course we chose to drink/gamble/take drugs. But I can't imagine there are many who chose to become addicted to those vices.
I think your post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the reasons for addiction. It definitely is a mental illness as its clearly an urge that addicts, without proper help, cannot control of their own accord even when someone without this illness would recognise the disastrous consequences.
From my limited experience (18 months) of working in the drug treatment field I have to agree with Leroy. Admittedly, my client group are all convicted adult male prisoners and they're notorious for blaming something/someone else for their situation. Telling themselves that their addiction is an illness lets them absolve themselves of any personal responsibility.
No one is born with a gambling problem. It is a weakness not an illness.
This is straight from the debating school of the Jeremy Kyle Show.
One million per cent wrong.
Of course, nobody is born to gamble. But it is medically proven that some people have chemical imbalances in the brain, which can lead to either addictions or mental illness. Eating disorders, kleptomania and extreme OCD are other examples.
Put simply, 99.9% of the population can put a £1 on the Grand National once a year and forget about it. For the other unlucky 0.1% they can't forget about it, they have a problem which won't let them, they are probably therefore destined for a very difficult life as a result. I can't see how that is their fault ?
I was referring the the suggestion that Arsenal were going to help him with his problems. Rather like Gazza, there seems to be a lot of public interest in former footballers falling on hard times as though they are more deserving in help to overcome their issues than those that never had fame or excessive wealth.
My wife's sister spent weeks alone in hospital (without her parents) from the age of six right up until she died at eleven because her mum and dad needed to work as they needed the money, yet it would seem that Arsenal are going to help out this former employee because he has drunk and gambled his 'fortune' away.
Maybe the fact that my wife brought this up recently (and doesn't talk about it fondly) influenced me to make the link but I was making the point that even though he was a player I liked back in the day I can't help but think that there are others that have problems worse than his that they had no influence over.
A very harsh post.
Gambling to the extent that Kenny Samson does is an illness, on a par with alcoholism. Samson doesn't have a choice to gamble..short of physical restraint, he cannot stop himself from doing so. Gambling releases some very powerful chemicals in the brain which to some people are very very addictive.
Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness.
Drivel. Neither Alcoholism or Gambling addiction are illnesses. Nor is drug addiction for that matter. You can't choose to get cancer. You can't choose to get Alzheimer's. You choose to drink or choose to gamble. The more people try to say its an illness or its a disease, the more they're enabling the gambler/drinker by giving them a 'reason' that they fuck their life up (and those of the people that care about them)
I agree with Leroy's opinions. There IS a choice to gamble, booze or take drugs, there is no choice if cancer gets a grip of your brain, your stomach or your child's lymphatic system. There are huge profits to be made from 'rehab' just as there are huge amounts of money and hundreds of thousands of jobs wrapped up in 'Law Enforcement' generally. 'Addictions' and their 'cures' are a big boost to the middle class economy, an as yet unburst money guzzling bubble.
I was referring the the suggestion that Arsenal were going to help him with his problems. Rather like Gazza, there seems to be a lot of public interest in former footballers falling on hard times as though they are more deserving in help to overcome their issues than those that never had fame or excessive wealth.
My wife's sister spent weeks alone in hospital (without her parents) from the age of six right up until she died at eleven because her mum and dad needed to work as they needed the money, yet it would seem that Arsenal are going to help out this former employee because he has drunk and gambled his 'fortune' away.
Maybe the fact that my wife brought this up recently (and doesn't talk about it fondly) influenced me to make the link but I was making the point that even though he was a player I liked back in the day I can't help but think that there are others that have problems worse than his that they had no influence over.
A very harsh post.
Gambling to the extent that Kenny Samson does is an illness, on a par with alcoholism. Samson doesn't have a choice to gamble..short of physical restraint, he cannot stop himself from doing so. Gambling releases some very powerful chemicals in the brain which to some people are very very addictive.
Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness.
Drivel. Neither Alcoholism or Gambling addiction are illnesses. Nor is drug addiction for that matter. You can't choose to get cancer. You can't choose to get Alzheimer's. You choose to drink or choose to gamble. The more people try to say its an illness or its a disease, the more they're enabling the gambler/drinker by giving them a 'reason' that they fuck their life up (and those of the people that care about them)
I agree with Leroy's opinions. There IS a choice to gamble, booze or take drugs, there is no choice if cancer gets a grip of your brain, your stomach or your child's lymphatic system. There are huge profits to be made from 'rehab' just as there are huge amounts of money and hundreds of thousands of jobs wrapped up in 'Law Enforcement' generally. 'Addictions' and their 'cures' are a big boost to the middle class economy, an as yet unburst money guzzling bubble.
That's like saying lung cancer isn't real because the person chose to smoke and there's a huge medical industry making a fortune off the back of treatments.
^^ it is nothing like that whatsoever .. you are weakening your case by writing what is quite frankly rubbish ... lots of people contract lung cancer who have never smoked .. no one becomes an alcoholic or a drug 'addict' unless they CHOOSE to drink alcohol or take drugs .. unless of course mum was an addict/alcoholic and the embryo became poisoned in the womb etc etc. Addiction is a CHOICE, carry on taking the drug, drinking the booze, playing the horses/slot machines whatever .. or STOP .. I say again, willpower alone will NOT cure cancer
^^ it is nothing like that whatsoever .. you are weakening your case by writing what is quite frankly rubbish ... lots of people contract lung cancer who have never smoked .. no one becomes an alcoholic or a drug 'addict' unless they CHOOSE to drink alcohol or take drugs .. unless of course mum was an addict/alcoholic and the embryo became poisoned in the womb etc etc. Addiction is a CHOICE, carry on taking the drug, drinking the booze, playing the horses/slot machines whatever .. or STOP .. I say again, willpower alone will NOT cure cancer
Lets try this another way.
Lets assume that you're right (you aren't) and addiction is a "choice" - why on earth would someone, unless they were suffering from a serious mental illness, "choose" to continue gambling/drinking/taking drugs to their severe disadvantage ?
^^ it is nothing like that whatsoever .. you are weakening your case by writing what is quite frankly rubbish ... lots of people contract lung cancer who have never smoked .. no one becomes an alcoholic or a drug 'addict' unless they CHOOSE to drink alcohol or take drugs .. unless of course mum was an addict/alcoholic and the embryo became poisoned in the womb etc etc. Addiction is a CHOICE, carry on taking the drug, drinking the booze, playing the horses/slot machines whatever .. or STOP .. I say again, willpower alone will NOT cure cancer
Lets try this another way.
Lets assume that you're right (you aren't) and addiction is a "choice" - why on earth would someone, unless they were suffering from a serious mental illness, "choose" to continue gambling/drinking/taking drugs to their severe disadvantage ?
arrogance, low self esteem, greed, to get away from it all, remorse, regrets, desire for a better life, the joy of getting high, thrills, spills, ups, downs, ins, outs, the hell of it all, the thrill of it all, laziness, the desire for a quick buck or quick release from problems real or imagined, things can only get better if I drop this tab, back this horse, drink this tequila .. and I am sure you could think of a few yourself if you had REALLY analysed the topic and had not taken the line of 'poor them, they are ill, ill, so ill .. NONE of my 'examples' are ILLNESSES .. they are examples of human desires, foibles and weaknesses NOT (to use your phrase) symptoms of 'serious mental illness' .. BUT at the end of the day we are going to differ on this .. I would however refer you to the McNaughton Rules which for decades have been the legal benchmark for mental illness in murder cases
Lincs and se9 good discussion boys this is why I like this site it can be a good sounding board for differing opinions providing it doesn't get personal. From my perspective I come down on the side of Lincs this isn't an illness it's an addiction these for me are two entirely seperate things. My mate was an alcoholic and is now clean because he recognised the problem, eventually understood why he was an alcoholic and then dealt with it by seeking help from AA and his friends. He has been dry now for 10 years but if you suggest to him he had an illness he would say that's bollocks he just had a weak will and was using drink as a crutch to get him through stressful situations.
I was referring the the suggestion that Arsenal were going to help him with his problems. Rather like Gazza, there seems to be a lot of public interest in former footballers falling on hard times as though they are more deserving in help to overcome their issues than those that never had fame or excessive wealth.
My wife's sister spent weeks alone in hospital (without her parents) from the age of six right up until she died at eleven because her mum and dad needed to work as they needed the money, yet it would seem that Arsenal are going to help out this former employee because he has drunk and gambled his 'fortune' away.
Maybe the fact that my wife brought this up recently (and doesn't talk about it fondly) influenced me to make the link but I was making the point that even though he was a player I liked back in the day I can't help but think that there are others that have problems worse than his that they had no influence over.
A very harsh post.
Gambling to the extent that Kenny Samson does is an illness, on a par with alcoholism. Samson doesn't have a choice to gamble..short of physical restraint, he cannot stop himself from doing so. Gambling releases some very powerful chemicals in the brain which to some people are very very addictive.
Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness.
Before I opened the second page of this thread I was going to pick GroveParkAddick up on his suggestion that my post was very harsh - especially in light of the fact that I was comparing a rich footballer's drinking and gambling and a five year old (non-smoker, just in case anyone was wondering) getting a terminal brain tumor.
However, having read the posts on page two I don't feel the need to....
Because someone has recognised his style and worked out that he is a previously banned user. In my eyes he's done nothing wrong on this thread, indeed he has made some very good points in an articulate way; whether you agree with them or not. However he obviously has previous and I have a good idea who he is. It's very difficult to disguise yourself on here when you come back after a ban, you soon revert to type. Believe me - I know!
"GroveParkAddick" is an individual who has habitually slated this site and the individuals connected to this site for many years on both the clubs's old Your Views, and other forums under various guises. No problem with letting that go (others on here have done similar), but taking the mickey out of our Upbeats fundraising attempts just to provoke a reaction (like his similar posts relating to Richard Murray's illnesses) are something I'll never forgive and he is never welcome on here, now or in the future. He applies under different names every now and then, and sadly this one slipped through.
Addiction is not an illness per se, so in that sense Leroy and others are correct, but it is often a powerful symptom of mental illness and eradicating the effects and damage caused by symptoms can often be as difficult as curing the actual illness.
Exhortations of "pull yourself together and show some willpower" which ordinarily can combat addiction simply don't work when you are suffering from a mental illness as your brain isn't functioning normally.
Hence the confusion and blurring as to what the illness actually is and the cause.
A parallel could perhaps be drawn with something like psoriasis which is a skin condition which can often lead to psoriatic arthritis.
You need to cure both yet one is the cause of the other.
Lincs and se9 good discussion boys this is why I like this site it can be a good sounding board for differing opinions providing it doesn't get personal. From my perspective I come down on the side of Lincs this isn't an illness it's an addiction these for me are two entirely seperate things. My mate was an alcoholic and is now clean because he recognised the problem, eventually understood why he was an alcoholic and then dealt with it by seeking help from AA and his friends. He has been dry now for 10 years but if you suggest to him he had an illness he would say that's bollocks he just had a weak will and was using drink as a crutch to get him through stressful situations.
That's interesting Dave - fair play to your mate - but isn't the basis of AA the fact that they say you have to surrender to alcoholism as it *IS* an 'incurable illness'? Or maybe he took what he wanted from the sessions.
True boggzy AA do in fact say that alcoholism is an incurable illness but in the case of my mate he never bought into that bit of it he just used the support structure. One thing he did say is that he noticed the majority of people who were there were like him that is to say folks whose drinking got out of control because it was easier than facing up to the ups and downs of day to day life. Just his observation I am not saying it is right or wrong. He's always been a good lad, even when he was drunk he was no trouble but I have to say without the booze he is a different person
That's fair enough - there must be others there that do that too. I've considered it before, but all the 12-step and 'God' business put me off, so like I say it's interesting that he just took what he needed from it, and got off the sauce.
Comments
Rather like Gazza with boozing, the mixture of public fascination and revulsion cannot disguise the fact that the guy is basically fighting a horrible illness.
Drivel. Neither Alcoholism or Gambling addiction are illnesses. Nor is drug addiction for that matter. You can't choose to get cancer. You can't choose to get Alzheimer's. You choose to drink or choose to gamble. The more people try to say its an illness or its a disease, the more they're enabling the gambler/drinker by giving them a 'reason' that they fuck their life up (and those of the people that care about them)
So wrong !
There is also no doubt that the proliferation of betting shops and FOBTs in the last ten years now means there are thousands more people like Kenny.
I think your post shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the reasons for addiction. It definitely is a mental illness as its clearly an urge that addicts, without proper help, cannot control of their own accord even when someone without this illness would recognise the disastrous consequences.
Oh no - I think I may have a gambling problem!
One million per cent wrong.
Of course, nobody is born to gamble. But it is medically proven that some people have chemical imbalances in the brain, which can lead to either addictions or mental illness. Eating disorders, kleptomania and extreme OCD are other examples.
Put simply, 99.9% of the population can put a £1 on the Grand National once a year and forget about it. For the other unlucky 0.1% they can't forget about it, they have a problem which won't let them, they are probably therefore destined for a very difficult life as a result. I can't see how that is their fault ?
There are huge profits to be made from 'rehab' just as there are huge amounts of money and hundreds of thousands of jobs wrapped up in 'Law Enforcement' generally.
'Addictions' and their 'cures' are a big boost to the middle class economy, an as yet unburst money guzzling bubble.
Addiction is a CHOICE, carry on taking the drug, drinking the booze, playing the horses/slot machines whatever .. or STOP .. I say again, willpower alone will NOT cure cancer
Lets assume that you're right (you aren't) and addiction is a "choice" - why on earth would someone, unless they were suffering from a serious mental illness, "choose" to continue gambling/drinking/taking drugs to their severe disadvantage ?
However, having read the posts on page two I don't feel the need to....
However he obviously has previous and I have a good idea who he is. It's very difficult to disguise yourself on here when you come back after a ban, you soon revert to type. Believe me - I know!
That clear Nick ?
Tells you all you need to know.
It's roulette, black jack and i think some other card games too. Punters can easily lose hundreds of pounds in an hour on them
Strange man.
Exhortations of "pull yourself together and show some willpower" which ordinarily can combat addiction simply don't work when you are suffering from a mental illness as your brain isn't functioning normally.
Hence the confusion and blurring as to what the illness actually is and the cause.
A parallel could perhaps be drawn with something like psoriasis which is a skin condition which can often lead to psoriatic arthritis.
You need to cure both yet one is the cause of the other.
Very interesting thread this is turning in to.
.
That's fair enough - there must be others there that do that too. I've considered it before, but all the 12-step and 'God' business put me off, so like I say it's interesting that he just took what he needed from it, and got off the sauce.