Apart form the dangerous vehicle convoys (are these really needed?) the current problem is the widening of the sliproads for junction 30 (just after the tunnel). These need to be completed to prevent the tailbacks into the tunnel and allow the speed limit to return to 70mph.
If the dangerous loads area could be removed it might allow a more sensible access to the tunnel from the Erith area.
There should also be signs on the east tunnel warning drivers that there is no access to the services via the junction 30 exit.
I work I Sevenoaks but live in Belvedere and struggle with my commute due to the Dartford tolls. The new design has made it a dam site worse and always use the A roads because the cues are horrendous and I don't even use the tunnel! Any hold ups just make the journey worse and then end up going down country lanes to avoid the traffic. The DOT say its better since the new tolls have been introduced is a joke. It's only going to get worse until they find another way round this problem.
There is an upside then as we do not really want people from Belvedere coming to Sevenoaks
Live about quarter of a mile from the tunnel in Dartford and work in Sidcup. Usually takes me an hour to do the journey - on a Sunday can do the same journey in 15 mins. I can take 10 mins to get from Sidcup to half a mile from home, then 45/50 mins to do the last bit.
It has been much much worse since the tolls were removed. Dartford is regularly gridlocked. And to make matters worse, the radio has now started reporting that "traffic is being held before the tunnel to PREVENT DELAYS" - actually makes me want to punch the car radio when I hear it as I crawl home from work!
I was overjoyed to get a local job last year so I wouldn't have to suffer the hell that is Southeastern Railways anymore. Now I find myself daydreaming about returning to work in the City.
Part of the problem going north, is that HGVs have to be in the inside lanes of both tunnels, which is effectively lanes 1 and 3 of the northbound A282 from Dartford, hence you have lorries in lane 2 moving in or out, and cars in lane 3 moving in to fill the emptier lane 2.
Plus vehicles exiting on the A13 who have to be in the left hand tunnel...
It seems pretty clear to me another Thames crossing is needed. I believe three options were considered, though one has now been ditched. The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend. I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13. I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
The Eastern crossing, as planned currently, is worthless. It would take about as much traffic as the projected growth in traffic in Dartford between now and when any new crossing would open, so would in effect do absolutely nothing to ease congestion at Dartford.
The leader of the council (Conservative) says the government claim that congestion in the town had been improved by the removal of the toll booths is a "load of nonsense".
It seems pretty clear to me another Thames crossing is needed. I believe three options were considered, though one has now been ditched. The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend. I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13. I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
A new Dartford crossing would be another bridge and the tunnels would be limited to local traffic. This is sensible.
Another crossing further east would also be desirable as it would save a lot of lorries having to drive from the Channel Tunnel up to Dartford and back east again.
The biggest threat to this country in the next 15 years is its road network. Large swathes not fit for purpose,and it's only going to get worse. Not helped of course by the jobsworth twats that get a say on how new roads should be designed and work.
It seems pretty clear to me another Thames crossing is needed. I believe three options were considered, though one has now been ditched. The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend. I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13. I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
I will find you and kill you! Fuck off do we need another crossing down here! (Joking about the kill you bit of course )
The best answer I have heard is to tunnel from before J2 to after J30, a 3 lane north and south tunnel would meet all current safety standards, doing away with the need for convoys and cost less than the ridiculius option 3 which will just clog up Medway/Bluebell Hill/Shorne etc
It seems pretty clear to me another Thames crossing is needed. I believe three options were considered, though one has now been ditched. The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend. I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13. I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
I will find you and kill you! Fuck off do we need another crossing down here! (Joking about the kill you bit of course )
The best answer I have heard is to tunnel from before J2 to after J30, a 3 lane north and south tunnel would meet all current safety standards, doing away with the need for convoys and cost less than the ridiculius option 3 which will just clog up Medway/Bluebell Hill/Shorne etc
Theres always option #4 'the ibborg option'; a bridge from Tilbury Docks, landing in the Stonebridge Road area of Northfleet, even bulldozing from the river, right up to Swanscombe will still only cause about 18 quids worth of damage.
Now if that ain't worth a promote, I'll pickle me wallnuts
It seems pretty clear to me another Thames crossing is needed. I believe three options were considered, though one has now been ditched. The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend. I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13. I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
I will find you and kill you! Fuck off do we need another crossing down here! (Joking about the kill you bit of course )
The best answer I have heard is to tunnel from before J2 to after J30, a 3 lane north and south tunnel would meet all current safety standards, doing away with the need for convoys and cost less than the ridiculius option 3 which will just clog up Medway/Bluebell Hill/Shorne etc
Theres always option #4 'the ibborg option'; a bridge from Tilbury Docks, landing in the Stonebridge Road area of Northfleet, even bulldozing from the river, right up to Swanscombe will still only cause about 18 quids worth of damage.
Now if that ain't worth a promote, I'll pickle me wallnuts
I see where your going with this......... " The ibborg Bridge"
It seems pretty clear to me another Thames crossing is needed. I believe three options were considered, though one has now been ditched. The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend. I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13. I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
I will find you and kill you! Fuck off do we need another crossing down here! (Joking about the kill you bit of course )
The best answer I have heard is to tunnel from before J2 to after J30, a 3 lane north and south tunnel would meet all current safety standards, doing away with the need for convoys and cost less than the ridiculius option 3 which will just clog up Medway/Bluebell Hill/Shorne etc
Theres always option #4 'the ibborg option'; a bridge from Tilbury Docks, landing in the Stonebridge Road area of Northfleet, even bulldozing from the river, right up to Swanscombe will still only cause about 18 quids worth of damage.
Now if that ain't worth a promote, I'll pickle me wallnuts
I see where your going with this......... " The ibborg Bridge"
My Mum lives in Sidcup and sister and @Bigmac live in New Eltham. I never use the A20 then M25 to get to ours in Greenhithe , always cut across and A2.
Hate to say it but it's the right decision though.
Agreed, no way can Dartford handle another crossing, there's complete gridlock in the town every time there's a problem with the current crossing. We desperately need a separate crossing to spread the load
The problem is not the route picked per-se. It's the fact that the new crossing, as designed, will only handle as much traffic as the forecast growth at Dartford in the time it'll take to build the new crossing, i.e. it won't actually improve Dartford at all, it will merely stop it getting worse.
The problem is though what'll happen when the Bridge is closed due to high winds... Everyone will swamp towards to the Lower Thames Crossing and so clogging both the M25 and A2. The Medway Tunnel was built to ease congestion through the Medway Towns yet getting through Strood and Rochester is still a nightmare.
A CPZ is being inserted around my roads in Strood and loads of people agreed with the plans as it meant they'd be able to park outside their house of an evening yet it'll mean nothing of the sort because the controls will only be in place until 6pm and commuters will still struggle to park in the evenings (we'll just have to pay for the privilege of struggling.)
My overall point is I reckon that people have agreed to the Lower Thames Crossing because they think it'll solve all the issues and that everything will be rosy, I just cant see it though as the majority of people coming from the North / South wont want to divert 20-mins down to Strood to get across into Essex whilst the traffic coming up from Kent wont impact enough to show a difference.
The problem is not the route picked per-se. It's the fact that the new crossing, as designed, will only handle as much traffic as the forecast growth at Dartford in the time it'll take to build the new crossing, i.e. it won't actually improve Dartford at all, it will merely stop it getting worse.
Yes but it's better than doing nothing....
Much like the new underground line they're building (Elizabeth line?). Was forecast to be at 60% capacity when finished. Latest forecasts say it'll be over 100% from day 1. Still better than standing still.
As a note... I do use the A2 / M25 route every day as I drive from Strood to Orpington for work so my views arent from someone who barely uses the roads, every weekday since Christmas I've been able to use the M25 to and from work every day (i.e. If the tunnel is bad I'd have to use the lanes to come home) whilst the new bridge at Jct.2 is barely queuing.
Its been bad these last two weeks (and I have had to come home via. the lanes) simply because of road works that take months to resolve. If anything, its our approach to roadworks in this country that needs to change (i.e. Isn't it cheaper to have roadworks for 2 weeks rather than one week?)
Maybe by taking the more expensive approach to roadworks will save having to spend, spend, spend on new roads
One benefit the new tunnel should have is that it will be built to modern standards, meaning petrol tankers and other dangerous loads won't require an escort through. Therefore they should ban all those from the Dartford tunnels, meaning they won't have to regularly close one tunnel, and redirect them to the new crossing. Not having to close the left bore regularly throughout the day could make a massive difference at Dartford.
One benefit the new tunnel should have is that it will be built to modern standards, meaning petrol tankers and other dangerous loads won't require an escort through. Therefore they should ban all those from the Dartford tunnels, meaning they won't have to regularly close one tunnel, and redirect them to the new crossing. Not having to close the left bore regularly throughout the day could make a massive difference at Dartford.
Do you think then that all the highlighted vehicles should be diverted to go straight down to the Lower Thames Crossing or are you just thinking in regards of those vehicles coming up from the coast?
As there will be those coming towards Dartford at the moment from the direction of further down the M25.
If it is case where all those vehicles have to come off at Jct.2 (M25) regardless then they'll need to surely improve that junction further to take into account the extra traffic on the roundabout... Already its a pain in the arse to get from M25 to A2 (Eastbound) because you've still got cars
- Coming off the A2 (Westbound) go into Dartford along Princes Road - Coming off the M25 (Southbound) to go on to the A2 (Westbound and Eastbound) - Coming off the M25 (Northbound) to go on to the A2 (Eastbound) - Coming off the A2 (Eastbound) to go in either direction on the M25 (or to go up to Princes Road).
Having the majority of lorries coming off at Jct.2 to go to the Lower Thames Crossing will create longer tailbacks of the M25 and despite clearing traffic slightly around Dartford, its simply going to move the issue a bit further back down the road.
One benefit the new tunnel should have is that it will be built to modern standards, meaning petrol tankers and other dangerous loads won't require an escort through. Therefore they should ban all those from the Dartford tunnels, meaning they won't have to regularly close one tunnel, and redirect them to the new crossing. Not having to close the left bore regularly throughout the day could make a massive difference at Dartford.
Do you think then that all the highlighted vehicles should be diverted to go straight down to the Lower Thames Crossing or are you just thinking in regards of those vehicles coming up from the coast?
As there will be those coming towards Dartford at the moment from the direction of further down the M25.
If it is case where all those vehicles have to come off at Jct.2 (M25) regardless then they'll need to surely improve that junction further to take into account the extra traffic on the roundabout... Already its a pain in the arse to get from M25 to A2 (Eastbound) because you've still got cars
- Coming off the A2 (Westbound) go into Dartford along Princes Road - Coming off the M25 (Southbound) to go on to the A2 (Westbound and Eastbound) - Coming off the M25 (Northbound) to go on to the A2 (Eastbound) - Coming off the A2 (Eastbound) to go in either direction on the M25 (or to go up to Princes Road).
Having the majority of lorries coming off at Jct.2 to go to the Lower Thames Crossing will create longer tailbacks of the M25 and despite clearing traffic slightly around Dartford, its simply going to move the issue a bit further back down the road.
I'd say divert them all, it's not a huge number, so the increase in traffic down the A2 from the M25 would be negligible, whilst having a sizeable effect on smooth operation of the Dartford crossing. I'd go as far as to say that the increase in traffic caused by diverting these vehicles would be a magnitude or more smaller than the increase of people seeing a build up of traffic at Dartford and diverting to the new crossing to avoid it.
Comments
If the dangerous loads area could be removed it might allow a more sensible access to the tunnel from the Erith area.
There should also be signs on the east tunnel warning drivers that there is no access to the services via the junction 30 exit.
It has been much much worse since the tolls were removed. Dartford is regularly gridlocked. And to make matters worse, the radio has now started reporting that "traffic is being held before the tunnel to PREVENT DELAYS" - actually makes me want to punch the car radio when I hear it as I crawl home from work!
I was overjoyed to get a local job last year so I wouldn't have to suffer the hell that is Southeastern Railways anymore. Now I find myself daydreaming about returning to work in the City.
Plus vehicles exiting on the A13 who have to be in the left hand tunnel...
The crazy thing is a new crossing at Dartford is being considered, along with one East of Gravesend.
I really don't think Dartford should get another. So i support the Eastern crossing option. Which will run from the junction of the A2/M2 across to the A13.
I know some people in the Shorne/Higham area are dead against it. Nonetheless, I see it as the best option.
The leader of the council (Conservative) says the government claim that congestion in the town had been improved by the removal of the toll booths is a "load of nonsense".
Another crossing further east would also be desirable as it would save a lot of lorries having to drive from the Channel Tunnel up to Dartford and back east again.
Large swathes not fit for purpose,and it's only going to get worse.
Not helped of course by the jobsworth twats that get a say on how new roads should be designed and work.
The best answer I have heard is to tunnel from before J2 to after J30, a 3 lane north and south tunnel would meet all current safety standards, doing away with the need for convoys and cost less than the ridiculius option 3 which will just clog up Medway/Bluebell Hill/Shorne etc
Now if that ain't worth a promote, I'll pickle me wallnuts
" The ibborg Bridge"
Suffers more blockages than Sue Parkes after an overindulgence on free match day vol au vent.
What a waste of time and money - yet nobody will be held accountable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-39575467
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/gravesend/news/kent-reacts-to-lower-thames-123871/
Bye Bye to more Green Belt land
I still don't think it is the right decision, but then I dont know what the right decision is in regards to this.
A CPZ is being inserted around my roads in Strood and loads of people agreed with the plans as it meant they'd be able to park outside their house of an evening yet it'll mean nothing of the sort because the controls will only be in place until 6pm and commuters will still struggle to park in the evenings (we'll just have to pay for the privilege of struggling.)
My overall point is I reckon that people have agreed to the Lower Thames Crossing because they think it'll solve all the issues and that everything will be rosy, I just cant see it though as the majority of people coming from the North / South wont want to divert 20-mins down to Strood to get across into Essex whilst the traffic coming up from Kent wont impact enough to show a difference.
Much like the new underground line they're building (Elizabeth line?). Was forecast to be at 60% capacity when finished. Latest forecasts say it'll be over 100% from day 1. Still better than standing still.
Its been bad these last two weeks (and I have had to come home via. the lanes) simply because of road works that take months to resolve. If anything, its our approach to roadworks in this country that needs to change (i.e. Isn't it cheaper to have roadworks for 2 weeks rather than one week?)
Maybe by taking the more expensive approach to roadworks will save having to spend, spend, spend on new roads
The A2 between Dartford and Medway is going to be a joy until around 2030 in a few years.
http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/a2-bean-and-ebbsfleet-junction-improvements/
As there will be those coming towards Dartford at the moment from the direction of further down the M25.
If it is case where all those vehicles have to come off at Jct.2 (M25) regardless then they'll need to surely improve that junction further to take into account the extra traffic on the roundabout... Already its a pain in the arse to get from M25 to A2 (Eastbound) because you've still got cars
- Coming off the A2 (Westbound) go into Dartford along Princes Road
- Coming off the M25 (Southbound) to go on to the A2 (Westbound and Eastbound)
- Coming off the M25 (Northbound) to go on to the A2 (Eastbound)
- Coming off the A2 (Eastbound) to go in either direction on the M25 (or to go up to Princes Road).
Having the majority of lorries coming off at Jct.2 to go to the Lower Thames Crossing will create longer tailbacks of the M25 and despite clearing traffic slightly around Dartford, its simply going to move the issue a bit further back down the road.