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North Korea

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  • JiMMy 85 said:

    image

    He's Japanese...
    Genetically related... Be afraid, be very afraid... ;-)
  • He is at wembley getting his firm together
  • Panorama programme last night (Monday 15th) of secret filming in North Korea was very enlightening to me.
    Well worth a watch if you have any interest at all.
  • I still think this is an act of desperation by a rapidly failing country. I think the North Korean regime needs to have sanctions lifted and aid given and they see the rhetoric a way of ultimately getting all parties, the Americans, Chinese around the table to negotiate sanctions being lifted and aid given in return for the NK putting all its toys back into the box. Lets hope so anyway.
  • Panorama programme last night (Monday 15th) of secret filming in North Korea was very enlightening to me.
    Well worth a watch if you have any interest at all.

    EG Their biggest hospital had no patients !
  • Panorama programme last night (Monday 15th) of secret filming in North Korea was very enlightening to me.
    Well worth a watch if you have any interest at all.

    EG Their biggest hospital had no patients !
    I saw it... that was weird. The lights kept turning off as well. The night time satellite view showing NK in darkness, whereas SK and China were ablaze with lights tells a story. That country is going down the pan, and as said above, they are doing what they can to get foreign aid. Nothing lasts forever, so I wonder what it would take to make the country be released from the grip of the Kim's cult of personality? People are starving, but the propaganda machine blames everything on the west. As some point, something will give
  • Adding to my post above I think that the NK regime can save face within the country by saying that their strength forced the Americans to negotiate. The Chinese are perfect mediators and I'm sure the yanks will insist that Bejing also play their part.
  • I doubt the N Koreans have that many cards, apart form their nukes. I doubt they have much money or much to trade. If we called their bluff and left them to rot what would happen? Millions would starve to death, as has happened before. Nobody wants that to happen... so do we just keep playing the same games?
  • McBobbin said:

    I doubt the N Koreans have that many cards, apart form their nukes. I doubt they have much money or much to trade. If we called their bluff and left them to rot what would happen? Millions would starve to death, as has happened before. Nobody wants that to happen... so do we just keep playing the same games?

    Either way millions in North Korea will die. War or starvation - pick your poison. USA should not negotiate with a government which has death camps for anyone who dissents in the smallest fashion or fails the state in some way.
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  • McBobbin said:

    I doubt the N Koreans have that many cards, apart form their nukes. I doubt they have much money or much to trade. If we called their bluff and left them to rot what would happen? Millions would starve to death, as has happened before. Nobody wants that to happen... so do we just keep playing the same games?

    Either way millions in North Korea will die. War or starvation - pick your poison. USA should not negotiate with a government which has death camps for anyone who dissents in the smallest fashion or fails the state in some way.
    I totally agree... NKs leaders are ultimately going to be responsible for as many deaths as any other dictatorship and its shitty that there's hardly anything we can do to stop it
  • There's a school of thought that this is an attempt by NK to force the west to up their aid (or more likely for the Chinese to up their aid) in order to help the NK government out of the hole they've dug for themselves. Or perhaps Kim is just trying to prove to the generals who hold the real power that he can threaten the US etc and is his father's/grandfather's rightful heir.
  • Or perhaps Kim is just trying to prove to the generals who hold the real power that he can threaten the US etc and is his father's/grandfather's rightful heir.

    This is exactly what is happening. Some have said that Kim Jong un is being so aggressive to try and force the USA to invade to save him from his generals and his people from this cult they've built for themselves. But that's just the conspiracy theorists.

    This is just a political game Kim Jong un is playing. Remember before his fathers death he was completely out of the public eye in North Korea. The common man had no idea who he was.
  • McBobbin said:

    I doubt the N Koreans have that many cards, apart form their nukes. I doubt they have much money or much to trade. If we called their bluff and left them to rot what would happen? Millions would starve to death, as has happened before. Nobody wants that to happen... so do we just keep playing the same games?

    Either way millions in North Korea will die. War or starvation - pick your poison. USA should not negotiate with a government which has death camps for anyone who dissents in the smallest fashion or fails the state in some way.
    Problem that the USA has is that the price for stability in the region is to negotiate with the North Koreans regardless of the human rights issues. Destabilising NK in the hope that things get better if KJU is deposed is not an option. The NK generals will be equally hard line. An invasion similar to Iraq is also not possible. The North Koreans have an army of 1 million and genuine weapons of mass destruction and are crazy enough to use them. The only way to return to a reasonably stable situation is to get around the table in the hope that the carrot of easing sanctions and large wodges of dollars can gain concessions in both military and human rights terms.

  • McBobbin said:

    I doubt the N Koreans have that many cards, apart form their nukes. I doubt they have much money or much to trade. If we called their bluff and left them to rot what would happen? Millions would starve to death, as has happened before. Nobody wants that to happen... so do we just keep playing the same games?

    Either way millions in North Korea will die. War or starvation - pick your poison. USA should not negotiate with a government which has death camps for anyone who dissents in the smallest fashion or fails the state in some way.
    Apart from China and Saudi Arabia of course.

  • USA should not negotiate with a government which has death camps for anyone who dissents in the smallest fashion or fails the state in some way.

    You might want to read about "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation" or School of the Americas as it used to be known before it was rebadged. Based in Georgia, US (Fort Benning) it is there that a host of right-wing South American paramilitaries, death squads, drug dealers and other people you wouldn't invite into your home voluntarily were trained. Among their alumni you'll find people like Manuel Noriega and many other narco-dictators.

    Then there is the CIA who have funded, excused and apologised for people like Saddam Hussein, Suharto and a lengthy list of dictators in just about every habitable continent.

    And you think the US doesn't support nations with death camps?
  • Think it's fair to say that Trumps latest statement about North Korea is very much for Chinese consumption prior to the meeting of The two heads of state next week but given that the Chinese always maintain that they have little influence on policy inside of North Korea exactly how will Donald Trump deal with North Korea without China's help ?
  • Trump probably thinks 'nuke 'em'.
    Or what was the view of some Americans just a few years ago 'carpet bomb 'em back to the stone age'?
  • seth plum said:

    Trump probably thinks 'nuke 'em'.
    Or what was the view of some Americans just a few years ago 'carpet bomb 'em back to the stone age'?

    So effectively shag em.

  • North Korea would fold within weeks if not for Chinese backing.
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  • It could be that China isn't so much 'backing' North Korea in the 'I approve of you're sense, as much as supporting them enough to keep trouble on the down low. I know it is a fine distinction, but North Korea does not appear to be a client state of China.
  • edited April 2017
    As I understand it, North Korea would get destroyed by the US like a chainsaw on a Coke can. Their nuclear capability isn't anything to worry about either at this point. Of course, the US would then have to deal with a humanitarian crisis, and feed a few million (already starving) Koreans and the obvious backlash from China and Russia.

    Edit - they might be able to hit South Korea and Japan. But only if you believe they have the five nukes they claim to.
  • Where does NK get the material for their nukes? China, Saudi, U.K or Pyongyang high street?
  • Solidgone said:

    Where does NK get the material for their nukes? China, Saudi, U.K or Pyongyang high street?

    MacGyver makes it for them.
  • Solidgone said:

    Where does NK get the material for their nukes? China, Saudi, U.K or Pyongyang high street?

    Saudi?
  • JiMMy 85 said:

    As I understand it, North Korea would get destroyed by the US like a chainsaw on a Coke can. Their nuclear capability isn't anything to worry about either at this point. Of course, the US would then have to deal with a humanitarian crisis, and feed a few million (already starving) Koreans and the obvious backlash from China and Russia.

    Edit - they might be able to hit South Korea and Japan. But only if you believe they have the five nukes they claim to.

    Indeed I believe their last test of a 'long range Mossley laughing system' was an utter failure. The think came down less than a mile away from where they launched it.

    Their nuclear capability is little to worry about.
  • JiMMy 85 said:

    As I understand it, North Korea would get destroyed by the US like a chainsaw on a Coke can. Their nuclear capability isn't anything to worry about either at this point. Of course, the US would then have to deal with a humanitarian crisis, and feed a few million (already starving) Koreans and the obvious backlash from China and Russia.

    Edit - they might be able to hit South Korea and Japan. But only if you believe they have the five nukes they claim to.

    Indeed I believe their last test of a 'long range Mossley laughing system' was an utter failure. The think came down less than a mile away from where they launched it.

    Their nuclear capability is little to worry about.
    And their chemical weapons, biological agents, and drones? Yes, in terms of numbers and tech the US and South Korea would wipe the floor with North Korea, but they have the potential to inflict mass casualties on US/SK forces as well as the innocent population of SK.

    The US method of waging war with targeted strikes against command and control hasn't worked for a while now, even if most of the North Korean army surrendered there could still be a brainwashed few hat resist, with the support of China, Russia and now likely Iran.
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