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North Korea

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  • What is the best time of year to visit and are there any good bars?
  • How many do they take away?
  • It's all posturing. Why would they release when they know they'd be pulverised in return. North Korea is always playing games like this.
  • edited March 2013
    are you a crazed dictator planning to destroy the earth? If so, take the stress out by lighting up a smooth tasting Marlboro light.
    keep on up north korea!
  • Well until they sneak a flare into The Den, I'm not taking them very serious.
  • edited March 2013
    I don't think NK is 'alf as `renegade' as is portrayed in our media/as they try to make out tbh. I think over the course of many years they kinda talked themselves into the bad guy role and now dutifully play the part.

    Their nuclear program is just to create a bargaining position imo. Whilst developing `a bomb' they are inviting the west to make 'em a financial offer to drop the program....and if it goes so far they actually acquire the capability they'll still look for a deal to scrap it. Pakistan has done a very similar thing.

    We (the West) like to portray 'em as nutter/fruitcakes but the reality is the leaders over there know exactly what they are doing. Yeah they are ruthless cunts, like prison camp guards over a jail the size of a country, organised crime at a national level etc but they are still in control. They give it all the 'ol rhetoric but they'd sign their own death sentence if they ever launched a nuclear weapon against another country....and they know it.

    The hierarchy over there have a cushy life compared to the rest of the population and I can't see 'em risking all that starting a war they can't win. On paper, yeah they've got a big army....but I think they know, deep down, when you get down to the crunch it wont fight for them. Saddam Hussain had a big army but as soon as the yanks yeee-harrred they got their hankies out. I see the NK army in exactly the same position.
  • How tall is he ?
  • They all live in London
  • History is littered with nutters who started wars they couldn't win.
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  • How about America the biggest war mongers of all and there little protege Israel remove there arsenal of destruction before we worry about North Korea as for all the supposed threat from Korea and Iran it seems Israel and America are more of concern . They way they try to manipulate the Middle East with their governments is a real cause for concern
  • nolly said:

    How about America the biggest war mongers of all and there little protege Israel remove there arsenal of destruction before we worry about North Korea as for all the supposed threat from Korea and Iran it seems Israel and America are more of concern . They way they try to manipulate the Middle East with their governments is a real cause for concern

    It's a shame because the thread is going to be in danger of getting closed but, do you think Israel might have a point about being tetchy about Iran and its nuclear programme when it's documented that Iran have stated that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth ?

  • Double standards you can't ask North Korea and Iran what there up to when I country the size of Israel has such a arsenal of nuclear weapons , as for the threat of Iran to Israel being a reason maybe the Christian and Muslim Palestians should be allowed to defend themselves from having their land grabbed daily by Israel . Don't see why it should be closed this thread are we not allowed to question the Israelis ? My grandad was over there in the forties when they were bombing the British as they were creating the new country
  • edited March 2013
    Israel and its human rights issues are a concern to me also. But you have to put this into context. Israel is a Jewish State and as such given the centuries of anti semitism not least of course the recent attempt by a civilised nation to eliminate them entirely. They will defend themselves at all costs. What is going on in the West Bank is I think wrong and needs to be condemned but I don't think the west sees Israel as an enemy or a threat to peace. I'm not sure we can say the same about Iran and North Korea.

    Corrected to West Bank. D'oh
  • What is going on in the South Bank is I think wrong and needs to be condemned but I don't think the west sees Israel as an enemy or a threat to peace. I'm not sure we can say the same about Iran and North Korea.

    I think you mean the West Bank, unless Isreal are claiming Waterloo as theirs...stranger things have happened...

    I think also you misunderstand the role of AIPAC in the US, as soon as any American politician dares to opine that Israel should withdraw to the borders that they were given in 1948 then this organisation pours a shedload of cash in to the coffers of their opponents and very quickly that congressman finds himself an ex-congressman.
  • The problem we have in the ME is one of cause and effect, the west demanded that Saadam destroy his WMD, so he did...and that worked out so well for him that Iran and NK promptly ramped up their nuclear ambitions.

    It didn't help that Bush cast Iran, iraq and NK as the "Axis of evil" which ignored that long war that Iran and Iraq fought in the 1980s. It also ignored the many attempts that the CIA have made in destabilising Iran. This included overthrowing a democrstically elected government in the 1950s - the government of Mohammed Mossadegh's "crime" was to dare to suggest that Iranian oil should belong to the Iranians and not a coalition of oil firms. The consequence of this was that his government was overthrown and the Shah installed in his place, he was given carte blanche to do what he liked as long as he allowed that coalition of oil firms to keep making money out of Iran. Nevermind that the Shah had a HR record that was appalling - he was "our" friend so that was ok, we turned a blind eye to the extra-judicial beatings, executions and much more.

    This culminated in the 1979 Iranian revolution when the Ayatollahs took over, casting the US as the great satan. The response of the US was to arm and support Saddam and encourage him to go to war with Iran. As the Iranians had purged the army of the pro-Shah supporters they were militarily in disarray. However several years in they turned the tables and started to claw back the land they lost and even began to invade Iraq. At that point Donald Rumsfeld visited Iraq on behalf of President Reagan and gave Saddam poison gas, intelligence as to where it should be used and even accidentally shot down an Iranian civilian jet as well as shooting up their navy. The use of poison gas by Saddam on Iranians was even blamed by Reagan on the Iranians themselves.

    All this and more - so is it any wonder that Iran and NK have decided that strength is best and distrust the ambitions of the US and west?

  • BlackForestRed

    I accept every point that you well make including the South Bank which I have corrected. The point I was trying to make is from an Israeli perspective. I still maintain that Israel is not a direct threat to me although I fully understand the destabilising effect in the ME could impact me. In contrast I think that Iran is a direct threat to my well being in supporting and propagating terrorism and North Korea for the time being by using cyber attacks on my broadband as a weapon.
  • Not meaning to cause offence, but all the North Koreans I've seen on the telly are short dumpy guys with squitty eyes. If they're up for a fight I fancy me chances!

    That was said about the Japanese before WW2.
  • The simple fact of the matter is that we have relied upon, currently rely upon, and will continue to rely upon the brutality of the US regime to keep us all in celebrity TV and iDevices. It's their foreign policy that keeps the West in it's position of enormous economic, military and political dominance.

    I'm not saying that makes it right - a blind man can see it doesn't - but the longer we live in blissful ignorance, the less chance anything will be done about it.
  • In contrast I think that Iran is a direct threat to my well being in supporting and propagating terrorism and North Korea for the time being by using cyber attacks on my broadband as a weapon.

    I believe Saddam was a direct threat as well - we were assured that it was a 45 minute threat and that this necessitated an immediate invasion and the spending of billions to remove him.

    Ten years on and we still haven't found any of the WMD that we were promised that he was hoarding, or the nuclear bomb making programme.

    Oh well - what's a couple of hundred of dead British soldiers? Or the expenditure of billions of our tax revenue? And I wonder how many more soldiers are there with bits of their bodies missing or will have severe psychologival trauma?

    Iran hasn't invaded any other nation - compare and contrast with our and the US's record for invading other nations - something up to one million Iraqi's have been killed and a nation destroyed. Maybe they support terrorists - but then we are hardly innocent in that regard either are we?

    In the meantime we will have a FI Grand Prix in Bahrain in a few weeks time. Let's ignore their human rights record and their suppresion of dissent - terrible when people want democratic freedoms and dare to protest. And while we are at it let's ignore the support that Saudia Arabia gives to Wahabbi terrorist organisations like al Qaeda. As long as they keep buying stuff from us and selling us their oil they and Bahrain will continue to be our friends.

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  • And your solution is ?
  • Saudi Arabia supporting terrorism:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia_and_state_sponsored_terrorism

    Bahrain's less than stellar HR record:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Bahrain

    Nothing to worry about though - they are good friends of the west.
  • What is the best time of year to visit and are there any good bars?

    I hear the National Lathe museum is quite popular over there.
  • And your solution is ?

    If you want people to trust you it helps to be an honest broker. We have broken too many promises and have allowed ourselves to be the US's poodle too many times to be regarded as having clean hands in the ME.

    And by the way - Israel's use of British passports by Mossad:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8582518.stm

    The Israeli ambassador was "disappointed" that we should have objected to Mossad's use of British passports...



  • Until we stop pandering to Israel's needs and stop them land grabbing even straight after cease fires there will never be true peace in the Middle East , but of course the Jewish vote in America is important so they can continue to carry on as they please
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  • The simple fact of the matter is that we have relied upon, currently rely upon, and will continue to rely upon the brutality of the US regime to keep us all in celebrity TV and iDevices. It's their foreign policy that keeps the West in it's position of enormous economic, military and political dominance.

    I'm not saying that makes it right - a blind man can see it doesn't - but the longer we live in blissful ignorance, the less chance anything will be done about it.

    Indeed.
    Such is the price of being America's poodle - we're like a doddery old man being bulldozed through our retirement by a bullheaded nephew.
    Maybe it's better being America's poodle than China or Russia's lapdog or being totally bossed by Germany/France?
    Either way your leaders are supporting hypocrisy, bloodshed and vested interests

  • edited March 2013
    nolly said:

    Until we stop pandering to Israel's needs and stop them land grabbing even straight after cease fires there will never be true peace in the Middle East , but of course the Jewish vote in America is important so they can continue to carry on as they please

    we been pandering to them since the second world war. can't see it changing. not with how the rest of the middle east is.
  • I suspect that NK is still a client/puppet state to China and has been since the Korean war in the early 1950s; the last bastion of crazy so called communist far east regimes. China uses NK to keep the USA on its toes. China will not allow number one son to go too far and no way will China allow nuclear weapons to be used so close to its own borders

    I assume when you buy a newspaper you just look at the pictures, rather than actually reading it.
  • Stu - what's the locals view of it on your neck of the woods?
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Roland Out!