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From The Sun: Paul Elliott in 'race row' with Richard Rufus

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  • Here in the rather un PC Queensland we have a brand of cheese called "Coon" - which is also used as a racial slur - and up in Toowoomba there is a stand at the Rugby League ground called the Nigger Brown stand, he was a former player in the 1950s and that was his nickname.

    Aussies also refer to Pakistanis as "Pakis" - this often leads to some tense moments, even though it is actually said innocently!
  • Mate in Thailand there was a brand of tooth paste called DARKIe with a pic of a black and white mistral on it its now called DARLLIE and stills has the mistral on it
  • It's the same as if I called a friend a c**t. They wouldn't be offended if it was used in a certain context. However Elliott did call him a stupid man n*****, a dog and a scumbag so I don't think anyone can really argue about the context in which it was used.
  • If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?
  • Mate in Thailand there was a brand of tooth paste called DARKIe with a pic of a black and white mistral on it its now called DARLLIE and stills has the mistral on it

    Used to have pretty much the same thing in china, so I'm told.
  • DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
  • DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

  • DA9 said:

    DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

    Hard to think of a bigger [expletive] than Diane Abbot, makes my blood boil just hearing her voice.

    Only other one that comes close is David Mellor.
  • DA9 said:

    DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

    Hard to think of a bigger [expletive] than Diane Abbot, makes my blood boil just hearing her voice.

    Only other one that comes close is David Mellor.
    Can you get LBC in Oz Ormy? If so you should listen to Mellor and Ken Livingstone's show at 10am uk time. Couldnt stand either of them before but listened to their show for a couple of years and changed my opinion a bit. Still dont necessarily agree with their views/ politics but they come across as men of principle who speak their mind and refreshing compared to today's public relation focused career politicians.
  • Like being fulham them changing to Chelsea and using brasses and wearing a full Chelsea kit while bring whipped
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  • DA9 said:

    DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

    Hard to think of a bigger [expletive] than Diane Abbot, makes my blood boil just hearing her voice.

    Only other one that comes close is David Mellor.
    Can you get LBC in Oz Ormy? If so you should listen to Mellor and Ken Livingstone's show at 10am uk time. Couldnt stand either of them before but listened to their show for a couple of years and changed my opinion a bit. Still dont necessarily agree with their views/ politics but they come across as men of principle who speak their mind and refreshing compared to today's public relation focused career politicians.
    Might try to listen to that on line, have not heard Mellor since 1997 and his stint on 606.

    Glad to see he has found some principles since shagging tha arse off Antonia de Sancha!
  • nolly said:

    Like being fulham them changing to Chelsea and using brasses and wearing a full Chelsea kit while bring whipped

    Was you there nolly?
  • I was the brass
  • edited February 2013

    DA9 said:

    DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

    Hard to think of a bigger [expletive] than Diane Abbot, makes my blood boil just hearing her voice.

    Only other one that comes close is David Mellor.
    Can you get LBC in Oz Ormy? If so you should listen to Mellor and Ken Livingstone's show at 10am uk time. Couldnt stand either of them before but listened to their show for a couple of years and changed my opinion a bit. Still dont necessarily agree with their views/ politics but they come across as men of principle who speak their mind and refreshing compared to today's public relation focused career politicians.
    Come on Rodders, Is that the same Ken Livingstone that cried on the abolition of slave trade anniversary and apologised on behalf of all british white people?

    Scab of a man!!
  • DA9 said:

    DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

    Hard to think of a bigger [expletive] than Diane Abbot, makes my blood boil just hearing her voice.

    Only other one that comes close is David Mellor.
    Can you get LBC in Oz Ormy? If so you should listen to Mellor and Ken Livingstone's show at 10am uk time. Couldnt stand either of them before but listened to their show for a couple of years and changed my opinion a bit. Still dont necessarily agree with their views/ politics but they come across as men of principle who speak their mind and refreshing compared to today's public relation focused career politicians.
    Might try to listen to that on line, have not heard Mellor since 1997 and his stint on 606.

    Glad to see he has found some principles since shagging tha arse off Antonia de Sancha!
    Ha, albeit it loose principles ;-) It's only on saturdays but worth a listen as you get a good balance and they are a bit of a comedy double act.
  • SE10 said:

    Black man subject to vile racist abuse.

    So wheres the black lawyers society/rio ferdinand/doreen lawrence etc etc???

    Ah yes, Doreen Lawrence - that crazy irrational loon who got such a bee in her bonnet about, of all things, her son being murdered.

    Behave.

  • Surely it's more about hypocrisy than racism?

    Mellor has been mentioned. His political career was ruined not by adultery (we'd have very few politcians left if that was the case). It was finished by his hypocrisy.

    You can't lecture the nation about moral values while cheating on your wife. And you can't use words like the term Elliott used while working professionally in the field of race relations.

    It's like finding your AA counsellor dead drunk in the gutter.
  • edited February 2013

    Surely it's more about hypocrisy than racism?

    Mellor has been mentioned. His political career was ruined not by adultery (we'd have very few politcians left if that was the case). It was finished by his hypocrisy.

    You can't lecture the nation about moral values while cheating on your wife. And you can't use words like the term Elliott used while working professionally in the field of race relations.

    It's like finding your AA counsellor dead drunk in the gutter.

    Agree with that. However, I do think that words are either "bad" - no matter who says them - or they're not. As soon as you start talking about context the whole I issue becomes subjective and everyone has their own view.

    Elliot should have known better.
  • This thread wont last
  • Thought Elliott would have gone into business with John Fashanu? Wish I could make a career out of my skin colour...
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  • I thought there were 2 N words, one ending in 'a', the other 'er', which distinguished between an offensive meaning & a friendly greeting? Seemingly introduced in 'gangsta' rap during the late 80's/early 90's? Further entrenched by 2PAC's Strictly 4 My N and his description of the word.

    For a slightly different take on it, Rhyme Asylum's The N Word for a more positive use of N words...

    Exactly. They're 2 completely different words. 1 which refers to slavery, lynching and discrimination, and what became a positive word from a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not sure about it coming from 'gangsta rap' though.
  • Surely it's more about hypocrisy than racism?

    Mellor has been mentioned. His political career was ruined not by adultery (we'd have very few politcians left if that was the case). It was finished by his hypocrisy.

    You can't lecture the nation about moral values while cheating on your wife. And you can't use words like the term Elliott used while working professionally in the field of race relations.

    It's like finding your AA counsellor dead drunk in the gutter.

    To be fair, it wasn't David Mellor in particular who banged on about strong morals, but he got caught in the witch hunt that inevitably followed on from 'back to basics'! And the bit about him supporting Fulham for a while is understandable when you consider how horrible Stamford Bridge was during that period (NF recruiters outside, for example)

    This whole affair is a nasty mess. After what happened between Mendonca and Steve Jones, and now Rufus and PE, it makes you glad that Hales and Flanagan took out their differences on the pitch!
  • DA9 said:

    DA9 said:

    If the society of black lawyers were all over spurs fans using the Y word, even stating that Jewish spurs fans shouldn't use it, and threatening legal action, why have they not been all over PE threatening him with legal action, a racist term is a racist term according to their standpoint?

    Probably scared of Powell after he slated them in the paper.
    More like double standards on a PE/Diane Abbot scale, white person makes racist comment... Bad, black person makes racist comment, it's all about context and wrong of the white person to even mention it.

    Hard to think of a bigger [expletive] than Diane Abbot, makes my blood boil just hearing her voice.

    Only other one that comes close is David Mellor.
    Can you get LBC in Oz Ormy? If so you should listen to Mellor and Ken Livingstone's show at 10am uk time. Couldnt stand either of them before but listened to their show for a couple of years and changed my opinion a bit. Still dont necessarily agree with their views/ politics but they come across as men of principle who speak their mind and refreshing compared to today's public relation focused career politicians.
    Can't listen to either of them, i think Mellor is a buffoon, and Livingstone, well, words fail me,I would probably crash the car through sheer frustration, and not only that he really does have a whiney voice

  • JaShea99 said:

    I thought there were 2 N words, one ending in 'a', the other 'er', which distinguished between an offensive meaning & a friendly greeting? Seemingly introduced in 'gangsta' rap during the late 80's/early 90's? Further entrenched by 2PAC's Strictly 4 My N and his description of the word.

    For a slightly different take on it, Rhyme Asylum's The N Word for a more positive use of N words...

    Exactly. They're 2 completely different words. 1 which refers to slavery, lynching and discrimination, and what became a positive word from a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not sure about it coming from 'gangsta rap' though.
    But they aren't two completely different words. They share the same etymology.
  • I disagree. Unless I misunderstand the meaning of 'etymology', the second word did not exist until after 200 years of slavery, black people were still being discriminated against and the word still being heavily used, so instead of asking for it to stop they changed the meaning of it.
  • JaShea99 said:

    I thought there were 2 N words, one ending in 'a', the other 'er', which distinguished between an offensive meaning & a friendly greeting? Seemingly introduced in 'gangsta' rap during the late 80's/early 90's? Further entrenched by 2PAC's Strictly 4 My N and his description of the word.

    For a slightly different take on it, Rhyme Asylum's The N Word for a more positive use of N words...

    Exactly. They're 2 completely different words. 1 which refers to slavery, lynching and discrimination, and what became a positive word from a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not sure about it coming from 'gangsta rap' though.
    Elliott apparently used the word "nigger". So under your differentiation, is that the discriminatory or positive version?
  • Off_it said:

    JaShea99 said:

    I thought there were 2 N words, one ending in 'a', the other 'er', which distinguished between an offensive meaning & a friendly greeting? Seemingly introduced in 'gangsta' rap during the late 80's/early 90's? Further entrenched by 2PAC's Strictly 4 My N and his description of the word.

    For a slightly different take on it, Rhyme Asylum's The N Word for a more positive use of N words...

    Exactly. They're 2 completely different words. 1 which refers to slavery, lynching and discrimination, and what became a positive word from a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not sure about it coming from 'gangsta rap' though.
    Elliott apparently used the word "nigger". So under your differentiation, is that the discriminatory or positive version?
    Right but did he really spell it that way or is that just the media not differentiating between the 2 words and believing 'nigga' to be a slang/shortened version as opposed to a different word? If he did spell it as 'nigger' then yes of course it's offensive, but it's a bit strange because it's like a fat person calling another fat person fat.

    Edit: My radar just went off and I remembered what site I was on - I'm in no way comparing the negative connotations associated with being fat with being black. Just that why would you try to offend someone with a slur that you yourself could be called.
  • JaShea99 said:

    I disagree. Unless I misunderstand the meaning of 'etymology', the second word did not exist until after 200 years of slavery, black people were still being discriminated against and the word still being heavily used, so instead of asking for it to stop they changed the meaning of it.

    It's not a question of disagreeing or not. It's a fact: both variants share the same etymology. There's a big clue in the last thing you write, "they changed the meaning of it". Except that nobody's actually changed the meaning, hence this argument! All that happened was that some people changed the way that they spelt it and the attitude that they took towards it when (some - not all) people use it.
  • Stig said:

    JaShea99 said:

    I disagree. Unless I misunderstand the meaning of 'etymology', the second word did not exist until after 200 years of slavery, black people were still being discriminated against and the word still being heavily used, so instead of asking for it to stop they changed the meaning of it.

    It's not a question of disagreeing or not. It's a fact: both variants share the same etymology. There's a big clue in the last thing you write, "they changed the meaning of it". Except that nobody's actually changed the meaning, hence this argument! All that happened was that some people changed the way that they spelt it and the attitude that they took towards it when (some - not all) people use it.
    Oh sorry I didn't realise it was a fact. My mistake.
  • SE9 said:


    StigMember

    2:19AM

    "...I used a term which is widely known as being derogatory to my own community..."


    "my own community"???? I'm guessing by that he means the black community? And what If I had said in my own community (being white)? Im sure I would not be allowed to say that as its not PC.

    Also why is Paul Elliott allowed into the Valley when he has used racist language in private to another person and that said person was offended? I'm sure a few years after Stephen lawerance's death the 5 suspects were barred from the Valley presumably after the undercover filming of them using racial language in private where nobody in that group was offended.



    Call me pedantic but I think stabbing someone to death is just a bit more serious than sending someone a racist text.

    Two of the charming gents involved have been sent down for the murder and the other three have a potential multi-million pound libel win against The Daily Mail for calling them murderers on the front page - all they need to do is prove they did not murder Lawrence.

    I just can't think why they haven't sued the paper yet......

    At the time no one had been convicted so there racial slurs were between one another in private.

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