Rule check

MuttleyCAFC

My eleven year old son is a keeper. He is very good at one on ones and part of his technique is to run out fast shouting 'Keeper's' like a banshee! I taught him this as when I was a keeper I was never pulled up for it by a ref. today the ref warned him when he did it that if he did it again he would penalise him - it does put some opponents off and to be honest and I can't deny that is the reason for doing it. I did think it might be a bit unsporting, but so is jumping around on your line for a penalty, but that is why I suggested he shouted keeper as you can claim it is habit to shout as you are coming out. So deep down I must have thought it might be illegal but I tried looking up this rule on google and can't find mention of it - I've told him to carry on doing it as this is the first ref who has pulled him up, but would be useful to understand the legality of the tactic if anybody knows? If there aren't defenders close by, can a keeper not shout 'Keeper's' as he is rushing out for the ball?

kentaddick

utter nonesense that ref is spewing. If you're a keeper and you think a ball should be yours you should shout for it, even if its one on one. I don't buy the "off putting" malarky, having a defender trying to nick the ball off you is off putting, are they not allowed to tackle now?

MuttleyCAFC

He was an old bloke- very fussy. I told my son to take it as a compliment as the ref could see he put the attacker off so it is even more reason to keep doing it but remember what the ref looks like! Hopefully a one off.

I suppose the ref decided it was unsporting.

JaShea99

Swearing aside, you shouldn't be penalised for verbalising anything. We should have a thread on 'rules that no longer seem to apply' because there's a number of things I've noticed in the last 5 years or so. Not that the school playground should be any kind of yardstick but for example, the 6 seconds in the keeper's hands rule seems to be regularly ignored. The amount of leeway between where a foul is committed and where the resulting free kick is taken from seems to have increased. Ensuring that the ball is stationary for a dead ball seems to get ignored regularly as well, touching a still spinning ball seconds before kicking it seems to suffice. Also it seems you have to kick the ball very hard and in completely the wrong direction to merit a yellow card or even a talking to when the ball is dead. To me kicking the ball anywhere other than the general direction of the set piece should be penalised because otherwise it gives players who want to timewaste a license to do so, as long as it's within reason.

cafcpolo

I would assume that if the attacker is in control of the ball then yes it would be classed as unsporting behaviour...No different to a defender shouting something as a striker is about to shoot, which I thought could be penalised.

Stone

There is no list of infringements for the alledged offence.
The law states that IN THE OPINION OF THE REFEREE he may be guilty of ungentlemanly conduct. So that can basically cover what your son is doing if the referee feels that what he is doing is 'ungentlemanly'.
Just as there is nothing written to say you can't say "leave it" or "my ball".

Garrymanilow

I never understood that one. Some refs actually used to blow the whistle and give a free kick if you shouted 'mine' instead of your own name. Insane

MuttleyCAFC

Actually just spoke to my son about this thread and he confirmed ref told him it was ungentlemanly which he didn't say at the time. What I have also told him before is to shout keeper's when the ball is rolling to him under no pressure. This gets the odd laugh from parents, 'he's keen' etc... but the idea behind this is to get the ref to think he just is a keeper who has a bit of a thing about shouting keeper's. Am I wrong telling him to carry on doing it? It doesn't feel like cheating when worse things are allowed.

Off_it

Garrymanilow said:

I never understood that one. Some refs actually used to blow the whistle and give a free kick if you shouted 'mine' instead of your own name. Insane

Especially if your name is Gary Mine.

MuttleyCAFC

Or Peter leaveitt!

Garrymanilow

Off_it said:

Garrymanilow said:

I never understood that one. Some refs actually used to blow the whistle and give a free kick if you shouted 'mine' instead of your own name. Insane

Especially if your name is Gary Mine.

Too right. 'MINE...ilow' got me out of many a scrape

nth_london_addick

Just keep doing it you won't have that ref many times



Leave it is another one that gets you pulled up at jr level

Seen mgrs, goalies , defenders all be reprimanded and in some instances indirect free kicks awarded

MuttleyCAFC

But this ref was the first so will need a few more to stop him doing it. Of course an indirect freekick is preferable to a goal anyway.

Leroy Ambrose

I had this for years on and off. Learned over time that bellowing 'my ball' when going up for a header probably wasn't clever, after giving away numerous free kicks for it and even being booked once after arguing with the ref after. I'd argue that doing what your son does is borderline unsporting, so unless he's clearly going to get to the ball first, or has a 50/50 chance of doing so, he'll just have to learn to live with the fact that some refs won't let him get away with it. 'Unsportsmanlike conduct' is the football refereeing equivalent of 'because I said so'. Same as some refs will let you get away with murder as a centre half, some will blow for the slightest shirt tug, others will want to overrule their linos at every opportunity etc - some want to pull you up for this.

I once got threatened with a booking for having my shirt untucked. Some refs are just nauses - tell him to accept it and move on.

Kap10

Garrymanilow said:

I never understood that one. Some refs actually used to blow the whistle and give a free kick if you shouted 'mine' instead of your own name. Insane

I vaguely recall Bobby Charlton having a goal chalked off because he called mine, rather than Bobby's ball!!!!!!!!!!!

O-Randy-Hunt

When he says he would penalise your son I'd hope he would mean give a free kick at the most and not a booking. I'd be on the sideline giving it a 'who's the planker in the black' if he booked an 11 year old

MuttleyCAFC

This ref was ancient - tactic seems to be ok with the younger ones. I took it to mean give a free kick rather than a booking to be fair to the ref.

My son was fine about, but the tactic does work really well for him so would be a shame if more refs are going to pull him up. Had loads of refs before today who haven't though.

Mundell Fleming

MuttleyCAFC said:

Actually just spoke to my son about this thread and he confirmed ref told him it was ungentlemanly which he didn't say at the time. What I have also told him before is to shout keeper's when the ball is rolling to him under no pressure. This gets the odd laugh from parents, 'he's keen' etc... but the idea behind this is to get the ref to think he just is a keeper who has a bit of a thing about shouting keeper's. Am I wrong telling him to carry on doing it? It doesn't feel like cheating when worse things are allowed.

Yes, you are wrong to tell him to keep doing it.

We've established that shouting in a deliberate attempt to put somebody off is ungentlemanly conduct.

Shouting to defenders "mine" or "keepers" when he's going for a cross, for example, is great. However, suggesting to your son that he should shout "keepers" to con the referee so that he can subsequently get away with ungentlemanly conduct is not appropriate.

It's none of my business, of course, but since you asked for opinions that's mine. If your son is talented that's good news for him. Encourage him to work hard, be honest and play fair. That way he'll be admired, liked and respected.

MuttleyCAFC

I suppose there is a thin line between what is ungentlemanly or clever. I mean, a goalkeeper messing about on his line before a penalty kick is designed to put the taker off- but it is accepted that he can do this. I do hate to see kids diving though so maybe there isn't much difference. The Burnley keeper took a big step off his line to save JJs pen on Saturday - that is ungentlemanly as he knew what he was doing but some refs seem more lax with this than others. Hardly any of us had a problem with it!

I asked if anybody knew the rules rather than for opinions - although it is interesting to discuss it - as I was genuinely unsure about it's legality. it seems it is down to the opinion of the ref. To date - countless refs have let it go and one has pulled it up - so i'll go with it being the opinion of one ref for the moment. If more pull him up - he will need to rethink of course.

ShootersHillGuru

Stone said:

There is no list of infringements for the alledged offence.
The law states that IN THE OPINION OF THE REFEREE he may be guilty of ungentlemanly conduct. So that can basically cover what your son is doing if the referee feels that what he is doing is 'ungentlemanly'.
Just as there is nothing written to say you can't say "leave it" or "my ball".

This. Given the intent of the goalkeeper is at least in part to put off the attacker then the ref is correct in interpreting the goalkeepers action as that of ungentlemanly conduct.

PL54

Garrymanilow said:

I never understood that one. Some refs actually used to blow the whistle and give a free kick if you shouted 'mine' instead of your own name. Insane

That seems right to me - if everyone went around the pitch screaming "mine" it'd be pretty silly. I teach my boys to "put a name on it"

randy andy

I'm fairly sure shouting 'mine' or 'leave it' is a bookable offence.

Carter

They are, You must always call your own name when going for the ball, I used to go mad at blokes I played with who screamed 'leave' or 'mine' it's something that kids have been taught at an early age.mit can also be bloody dangerous.

The only generic one is 'keepers' but of a call is needed it needs to be your name or nickname. Unless your nickname is something like 'fuckface'

tangoflash

The shout of "mine" etc is deemed as unsporting, as it can be unclear as to who said it and which team he/she is on. The shout of Keeper is pretty obvious, so as long as he's coming to claim the ball and using the call to warn his defenders, rather than just as a tactic to put off the opposing player, there's no problem with it.

As a former defender, I have lost count how many times over a 20 year career I got away with telling an attacking opponent to 'leave it' or after finding out their name (which normally took 5 mins) and giving them a call of "backdoor john" when he was 1-on-1 with the last defender, for the opponent to knock it back to me. Only got caught out by the ref a couple of times.

jdsd42

problem is the Ref more than likely watches Premiership and champions league football and would not have a clue that Keepers do come off their line and Call /shout for the ball and clear out all in front of them .....as a defender when the keeper called we got out the way as we knew he would get the ball and anything in his way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Carter

jdsd42 said:

problem is the Ref more than likely watches Premiership and champions league football and would not have a clue that Keepers do come off their line and Call /shout for the ball and clear out all in front of them .....as a defender when the keeper called we got out the way as we knew he would get the ball and anything in his way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Exactly, the only call that is ok