They can join the Evo-Stick (ow w/ever) and work their way up as far as I'm concerned. Why should any club give up their permiership place for Celtic or anyone else.
All this "Scottish football is dead without Rangers" is nonsense. Rangers and to an extent Celtic were poor sides through a lot of the early 80s pre Souness/Murray. During that period Dundee United got to a European Cup semi and and UEFA final. Aberdeen won the ECWC. Scotland produced better players and qualified for five world cups on the bounce. With the two financially dominating it's become impossible for the likes of Hearts to compete. If any youngster looks any good they are snapped up by the big boys and often left to go mouldy in the reserves. Fans become dissolute as their club is effectively playing to finish third in a rubbish league. Youngsters support the old firm regardless of location partly due to blanket media coverage. No Rangers does put a big dent in Celtic but not necessary the Scottish league.
Celtic would be reasonably worried because a large proportion of their Season Ticket holders buy the ticket for the Old Firm games , balance that against the fact that apparently Rangers have already promised their season ticket money for the next three years against debts so they will not have any meaningful attendance income giving the Celts virtually a free pass to Champions League qualification .
Would Celtic wish to trade that for a place in the EPL ? and as Rodney asks at whose expense ? If either Old Firm side made it to the Prem within 5 years they would be competing at the top against the Mnachesters . Could that also put a different spin on the devolution debate north of the border ? I'm sure Alex salmond would be against it.
I don't care how bleak things look for Rangers right now I just know that they will kick off next season with a squad of players capable of winning the title without a care in the world. The only losers will be the taxpayer and creditors. That's a FACT
If Rangers do cease to exist (which won't happen) then that will be the trigger for Celtic to join the Premier League.
There's no way they'd be allowed to join the EPL straight off the bat. They are, at best a Championship level team and personally I think they'd even struggle there. They look good in Scotland because the competition is absolutely woeful. They rarely acheive anything in Europe because they are only slightly less woeful.
If Rangers do cease to exist (which won't happen) then that will be the trigger for Celtic to join the Premier League.
There's no way they'd be allowed to join the EPL straight off the bat. They are, at best a Championship level team and personally I think they'd even struggle there. They look good in Scotland because the competition is absolutely woeful. They rarely acheive anything in Europe because they are only slightly less woeful.
Isn't that mainly because they only have SPL TV revenue ? If they were in the Premier League either (or both) of the Old Firm would be competeing for a top seven finish within a couple of years.
Incorporating the Old Firm into the Prem would make it a great spectical, but I'm not sure if it would really benefit Scottish football.
I agree it's unfair and I don't want them in any English league (them or Rangers) but with all the politics and money involved, I reckon that they would do something like a play-off between Celtic and the third from bottom Prem club at the end of a season in a year or two, and if Celtic won it they could then put them there on some misguided "merit".
TV people would rather see Man Utd vs. Celtic in the league rather than Man Utd vs QPR (or Charlton) etc. They will find a way of shoe horning them in and pretending it's fair.
All of this is if Rangers weren't about - as then joining the EPL would be VERY attractive to Celtic, and incorporating one team rather than two would be more easily swallowed by the armchair fans.
Of course as we all know Rangers will pay back a penny in the pound and somehow bounce back from this unscathed while leaving the tax payer and local businesses out of pocket. But hypothetically and unprovably speaking, what I've said above is FACT. (FACT)
I don't care how bleak things look for Rangers right now I just know that they will kick off next season with a squad of players capable of winning the title without a care in the world. The only losers will be the taxpayer and creditors. That's a FACT
Does the HMRC except terms or do they insist a company pays in full or gets wound up and its assets desposed with. I feel a shoeing coming for the tax payer.
Rangers are admin. That doesn't mean they are going out of existance. The old firm will continue to trade.
I can't see either of Rantic or Celgers in the EPL because it is no one's interests but theirs.
The smaller prem clubs don't want them as it means two of them giving up a place. The bigger prem clubs don't want two very well supported clubs competing for the European places (which they will after a few years of Sky money) The Police don't want there fans (remember Manchester for the UEFA cup final) The FA and SFA don't want to give UEFA any excuse to demand a GB team
Sky TV might well want them but they have their games already.
As I understand it the creditors have to accept the deal made by the company in administration. If the major (and basically only) creditor is the HMRC they will decide what happens.
I would like to see them wind up the company and sell the stadium to a developer and build houses on it. I have no issue with companies trying to reduce their tax bill, but I do have a problem with them not paying their tax bill. As things stand there is millions of pounds of tax payers’ money that will probably have to be written off. The figure of £84m has been mentioned in news reports.
That is a staggering amount of money, and on top of that there is something like £11m that is not related to a tax scheme that has backfired.
HMRC shouldn't allow the administrators/new owners, to force them to take 10p in the £. They should, literally, repossess the ground, the players’ contracts and sell it all off. Rangers have no right to be allowed to rise again from this.
I think you may find the new owners have hived off the ground already.
This tax scheme has been around for years. HMRC have never accepted that it works but it has nevertheless been widely sold to many British companies. It is therefore a big deal to HMRC.
The Tribunal's decision is not public yet but it seems fairly obvious that Rangers already know they have lost and can't afford to pay up. So, you see, HMRC has to make an example of Rangers "pour encourager les autres". Otherwise a whole host of companies will think its ok to do tax schemes that don't work and get out of it by going into administration. Oh! Hold on a minute.....perhaps that is already happening...?
It's hard to see why anyone would want the club. Massive debts and mortgaged to the hilt (Whyte has borrowed against season ticket sales for the next few years - tickets that they may well not even be able to sell in the light of current turmoil). The only way I see out of it is outright liquidation, but it'll depend on whether the re-formed club will be able to retain the ground and other assets and - most importantly - where Rangers 2012 will start in the league system. In England they'd be back at square one, but I wonder if in Scotland they'll be able to cut a deal to kick off in the SPL in the light of their financial importance to all of the other clubs. But would UEFA put up with such a thing? Unfortunately whatever the outcome these good loyalists will end up costing the crown a pretty penny, making life miserable for their fans and probably wreck the exsistence of a number of their loyal staff members. Terrible business. You wonder if any other clubs are casting a nervous eye at their "staff benefit" schemes.
All depends on this particular case but the vast majority of clubs coming out of administration have stayed in the same division (unless the points deduction has lead to relegation).
Rangers are such a big club with huge support and potential that they will find buyers fairly easily IF IF IF the admin allows then to wipe away most the debt.
The problem seems to be that the Administrators have found another £30m hole in the accounts and HMRC and trying to get their full whack, not the unusal 1p in the £
It is not for the good of the game north of the border that the Old Firm have been so dominant for over 25 years since Ferguson left Aberdeen .
This is the real issue if lets say Liverpool were in a similar position in England , other clubs would emerge in the short term to fill the void . In Scotland I don't think the likes of Hearts , Hibs , Dundee United ,Aberdeen or Motherwell could compete in the short term with the Celts giving the Hoops an unrivalled 3/4 year dominance in the game.
Another part to that story is who potentially wants to buy "The Massive". Just googled Sybil Danning and found that I shouldn't have done that at work!!! ;-)
As I understand it the creditors have to accept the deal made by the company in administration. If the major (and basically only) creditor is the HMRC they will decide what happens.
The problem is that Whyte is the major, and secured, creditor. HMRC is not a secured creditor so they get nothing and Whyte walks away from all the debts with an inconsequential 10-point penalty.
All depends on this particular case but the vast majority of clubs coming out of administration have stayed in the same division (unless the points deduction has lead to relegation).
Rangers are such a big club with huge support and potential that they will find buyers fairly easily IF IF IF the admin allows then to wipe away most the debt.
The problem seems to be that the Administrators have found another £30m hole in the accounts and HMRC and trying to get their full whack, not the unusal 1p in the £
Yes, I was meaning in a liquidation situation, Henry. But even then I can imagine other clubs in Scotland allowing a "new" Rangers to be fastracked.
The whole thing - as are so many football administration matters - is a sickening farce.
Rangers will be back in business next season in the SPL right as rain having turned over HMRC for 50 million quid whilst all the poor old UK tax-payers get whacked ever harder to make up the shortfall.
Pathetic, embarrassing, disgraceful, disgusting, immoral and obscene are just a few of the words that spring to mind.
Way to much aggro for everyone. No one would want to give up a place higher up the leagues so the only solution would be for them to join at non league level and Rangers and Celtic would take thousands everywhere in England what with the supporters clubs down here, So that wouldn't work plus what would be the point of playing Welling at Celtic Park for example.
Comments
Would Celtic wish to trade that for a place in the EPL ? and as Rodney asks at whose expense ? If either Old Firm side made it to the Prem within 5 years they would be competing at the top against the Mnachesters . Could that also put a different spin on the devolution debate north of the border ? I'm sure Alex salmond would be against it.
Incorporating the Old Firm into the Prem would make it a great spectical, but I'm not sure if it would really benefit Scottish football.
TV people would rather see Man Utd vs. Celtic in the league rather than Man Utd vs QPR (or Charlton) etc. They will find a way of shoe horning them in and pretending it's fair.
All of this is if Rangers weren't about - as then joining the EPL would be VERY attractive to Celtic, and incorporating one team rather than two would be more easily swallowed by the armchair fans.
Of course as we all know Rangers will pay back a penny in the pound and somehow bounce back from this unscathed while leaving the tax payer and local businesses out of pocket. But hypothetically and unprovably speaking, what I've said above is FACT. (FACT)
I feel a shoeing coming for the tax payer.
I can't see either of Rantic or Celgers in the EPL because it is no one's interests but theirs.
The smaller prem clubs don't want them as it means two of them giving up a place.
The bigger prem clubs don't want two very well supported clubs competing for the European places (which they will after a few years of Sky money)
The Police don't want there fans (remember Manchester for the UEFA cup final)
The FA and SFA don't want to give UEFA any excuse to demand a GB team
Sky TV might well want them but they have their games already.
I would like to see them wind up the company and sell the stadium to a developer and build houses on it. I have no issue with companies trying to reduce their tax bill, but I do have a problem with them not paying their tax bill. As things stand there is millions of pounds of tax payers’ money that will probably have to be written off. The figure of £84m has been mentioned in news reports.
That is a staggering amount of money, and on top of that there is something like £11m that is not related to a tax scheme that has backfired.
HMRC shouldn't allow the administrators/new owners, to force them to take 10p in the £. They should, literally, repossess the ground, the players’ contracts and sell it all off. Rangers have no right to be allowed to rise again from this.
This tax scheme has been around for years. HMRC have never accepted that it works but it
has nevertheless been widely sold to many British companies. It is therefore a big deal to HMRC.
The Tribunal's decision is not public yet but it seems fairly obvious that Rangers already know they have lost and can't afford to pay up. So, you see, HMRC has to make an example of Rangers "pour encourager les autres". Otherwise a whole host of companies will think its ok to do tax schemes that don't work and get out of it by going into administration. Oh! Hold on a minute.....perhaps that is already happening...?
Obviously Wednesday isn't MASSIVE enough for him.
Rangers are such a big club with huge support and potential that they will find buyers fairly easily IF IF IF the admin allows then to wipe away most the debt.
The problem seems to be that the Administrators have found another £30m hole in the accounts and HMRC and trying to get their full whack, not the unusal 1p in the £
This is the real issue if lets say Liverpool were in a similar position in England , other clubs would emerge in the short term to fill the void . In Scotland I don't think the likes of Hearts , Hibs , Dundee United ,Aberdeen or Motherwell could compete in the short term with the Celts giving the Hoops an unrivalled 3/4 year dominance in the game.
Rangers will be back in business next season in the SPL right as rain having turned over HMRC for 50 million quid whilst all the poor old UK tax-payers get whacked ever harder to make up the shortfall.
Pathetic, embarrassing, disgraceful, disgusting, immoral and obscene are just a few of the words that spring to mind.
Way to much aggro for everyone. No one would want to give up a place higher up the leagues so the only solution would be for them to join at non league level and Rangers and Celtic would take thousands everywhere in England what with the supporters clubs down here, So that wouldn't work plus what would be the point of playing Welling at Celtic Park for example.