Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Pensions and The Public Sector

edited November 2011 in Not Sports Related

Public Sector workers are aggrieved, but compared to the pensions "austerity" employees have had to endure in the private sector, the Public Sector workers should not expect too much sympathy. Doubling of contributions up to 10% has not been unusual in the private sector as being the price workers have been prepared to pay to stay in a final salary scheme.  Traditionally pension contributions were 50:50 shared by employer and employee.  With final salary pension contributions at 25% plus, a 10% employee contribution is seen as reasonable in context.

Since most public sector salaries and benefits are met from tax revenues and there is no clear pension "cost", public sector employees have no context in which to evaluate their salary and pension package.  In the private sector, pension costs are very transparent and have to be managed. 

In the public sector there is a myth that salaries are low to take account of generous pensions.  ONS figures give average public sector weekly wage as £605 and private sector as £581. So if you take what the private sector would need to pay for a public sector style pension, around 30% of pay, public sector pay should average nearer £460 p.w. 

The governement knows it can't reduce pay so it has to reduce public sector pensions, and that really isn't going to work unless the pension promise is decimated.  By just tinkering with the pension, the unions have run circles around ministers and bamboozled everyone with mixed up facts and pension language that is unfathomable, but they are largely correct.  The savings resulting from these changes to pensions are a mere drop in the ocean, so why bother.  If they are unaffordable today, these changes do not make them affordable.  Ministers are losing the argument and Unions are able to mobilise the public sector for heir own agenda.

The strike tomorrow should be by the millions of private sector workers demanding that any tax revenues available to fund pensions should be equally shared between the private and public sector.  It is fairness for the next generation and nothing else that justifies re-negotiating public sector pensions.  Alternatively, the public sector can accept wages which, when added to their pension, are in balance with the market value of their employment package.

«1345678

Comments

  • This >< is the amount of sympathy I have for the strikers.
  • edited November 2011

    The biggest scandal was in allowing theiving 'entrepreneurs' access to private sector pension funds. The Maxwells for example should have all their assets confiscated as Robert Maxwell was a theiving bastard and his heirs should not profit in any way from his outrages. Having said that, the Government is howling that the country will come to a halt during public sector strikes. Does this not indicate that publc sector workers are invaluable and deserve a lot more respect than they are being shown. Any group of workers has a right to withdraw labour if they feel aggrieved and have (in their collective view)  a genuine case, no matter how that case might be viewed by outsiders.

    Another scandal is that 'Bankers' can bring the country to the edge of financial ruin and walk off with millions in a pension fund. Fred the Shred should be shredded .. alive alive oh

  • For the first time in 14 years of public service I will be crossing a picket line tomorrow.

    I came out of the Union after the farcical 2k London Weighting campaign. Went out 5-6 times during that campaign. Losing pay every single time I did.

    The campaign was then just dropped. No explanation, nothing. When I questioned this and asked for my 5 days pay out of the strike fund I was invited to resign from the Union if I felt like that.

    Talking to colleagues who are close to retirement age many would like to see reasoned discussions as they think the current offer is reasonable.

    I feel sorry for people that have paid in for 30 - 40 years and have seen colleagues go with large lump sums and good monthly payments, which under the terms of their pensions they are entitled to. If there was some sort of ring fenced protection for those coming up to retirement age and having paid in for a fixed amount of years, I suspect this would be less of an issue.

  • For the first time in 14 years of public service I will be crossing a picket line tomorrow.

    I came out of the Union after the farcical 2k London Weighting campaign. Went out 5-6 times during that campaign. Losing pay every single time I did.

    The campaign was then just dropped. No explanation, nothing. When I questioned this and asked for my 5 days pay out of the strike fund I was invited to resign from the Union if I felt like that.

    Talking to colleagues who are close to retirement age many would like to see reasoned discussions as they think the current offer is reasonable.

    I feel sorry for people that have paid in for 30 - 40 years and have seen colleagues go with large lump sums and good monthly payments, which under the terms of their pensions they are entitled to. If there was some sort of ring fenced protection for those coming up to retirement age and having paid in for a fixed amount of years, I suspect this would be less of an issue.

    You'll find that public sector pensions are almost always ring fenced if new terms are less favourable to existing members. This is not usually the case in the private sector. How many firms get away with arbitrarily changing pension rules is beyond me .. whatever happened to contract law ?
  • Bo**ox to all this cause I ain't got it, you shouldn't have it either. You can can't have a pay rise, because I haven't had one!
    We had an agreement, they have gone back on it. It took years to work out, and get us to agree to it, which we did. Now its changed!!
    Fred Goodwin walked away with (I think) six million a year pension because it was in his terms and conditions, well guess what, its in mine that I have what I am getting now so leave it alone!
    Oh yes, and now we have been told we are having a 1% pay increase for the next two years on top of the pay freeze for the last five years for myself and thats on top of my 3% INCREASE in pension payments which I will have to work another couple of years to claim and when I do its will be for a lot less!
    Im walking out at midnight tonight, and Im proud to say it too.
  • edited November 2011

    All I say to all the public sector workers is this.............

    If you don't want to pay anymore into your pensions then don't. Simply leave the scheme & pay the equivilant 6% into a private pension.

    I bet you wont as you know the schemes you are in are a darn sight better than having to fund a pension scheme just by yourself.

    sorry, but i have no sympathy AT ALL with the striking public sector workers. For a 6%,8% or even 10% contribution you recieve a LOT LOT more in return when you retire. I should know as I see the results daily in my job as a financial advisor (esp as I deal with NHS workers ) Believe me, it is a small price to pay for what you reacive back at 60 or 65.

  • Bo**ox to all this cause I ain't got it, you shouldn't have it either. You can can't have a pay rise, because I haven't had one!
    We had an agreement, they have gone back on it. It took years to work out, and get us to agree to it, which we did. Now its changed!!
    Fred Goodwin walked away with (I think) six million a year pension because it was in his terms and conditions, well guess what, its in mine that I have what I am getting now so leave it alone!
    Oh yes, and now we have been told we are having a 1% pay increase for the next two years on top of the pay freeze for the last five years for myself and thats on top of my 3% INCREASE in pension payments which I will have to work another couple of years to claim and when I do its will be for a lot less!
    Im walking out at midnight tonight, and Im proud to say it too.

    This.

    Also I had a cold last week - why weren't private sector workers also forced to have a cold?

    If it's pissing you off look on the bright side.  Life expectancy for teachers who retire at 65 is so bad that once the retirement age is raised to 68 there won't be anyone left alive to receive pensions anyway.  Then you can all get on and read The Mail in peace.

  • Perhaps i should strike tomorrow because my company doesn't offer me a pension?

    Oh wait i've had to take half a days holiday , because my kids schools are shut , teachers grrrr...
  • many private sector workers don't get sick pay so can't take time off if they have a cold & most certainly don't get a employer sponsered pension scheme. Even the banks have shut their final salary schemes that ALL public sector workers get.

     

  • edited November 2011
    So the main thing is that we should all be getting equally screwed? Right, got it.
  • Sponsored links:


  • well said Dippenhall    The public workers should remember that Blair and Brown plundered £20 Bn from private pension funds that affected their retirement
  • So the main thing is that we should all be getting equally screwed? Right, got it.


    I think its more that private sector workers don't want to have to pay huge amounts for their pensions AND taxes for public sector pensiosn too.

    I pay 18% into my pension. I will almost certainly get a worse annuity than a public sector worker paying in 6 or 10%.

  • So the main thing is that we are all getting equally screwed? Right, got it.
    I think there are degrees of screwed , and the education sector has got it better than most , it doesn't seem fair asking people who haven't got pensions to pay more in tax contributions  to support those that do have a public sector pension , yes the goal posts have moved , but they have for everybody , why do you think people in the private sector are working past 60 & 65.

    I wish the schools didn't have such long holidays , if the kids spent more time at school instead off on holiday , then maybe they wouldn't have so much homework , which in turn would increase family time life and reduce stress at home , which would mean more relationships not breaking up, i'll get back in my cage....
  • Good luck to all those striking tomorrow, with you 100%.
  • edited November 2011
    But what will it achieve? It might make you as a Public Sector Employee feel better but will it result in a U turn.................me thinks not!
  • The argument seems to be that everyone should be driven down to the lowest level, and not that people should be brought up. What a selfish country we are
  • The argument seems to be that everyone should be driven down to the lowest level, and not that people should be brought up. What a selfish country we are
  • What AFKA said.
  • I wonder how many of the £2m unemployed would gladly take a job that comes with a guaranteed, inflation proofed pension, sick pay & life assurance all for just a 8.5% deduction from their salary.

  • Everybody would like more money , that goes without saying , but you can't spend what you haven't got , and sorry your not going to get too much sympathy from me , i know its hard line but people are not living in the real world and facing up to the fact we're skint , and the sooner people wisen up to it the better.
  • Sponsored links:


  • edited November 2011
    Showing my ignorance but if you strike do you lose a day's pay?
  • The argument seems to be that everyone should be driven down to the lowest level, and not that people should be brought up. What a selfish country we are



    Not at all. I'd love for everyone to get great pensions, be able to retire early after a well-paid and fulfilling career and to have puppy dogs and rainbows.

    It's just a recognition of reality. Every pound that you don't pay towards your own pension is a pound I'm paying to your pension. I'm not asking you to contribute towards my pension, why are you demanding I pay yours?
  • Better not pay any taxes then, you might benefit from them
  • The argument seems to be that everyone should be driven down to the lowest level, and not that people should be brought up. What a selfish country we are
    Sadly that is (unintended probably) a consequence of socialism.
  • and the idea that Public Sector pensions, or the public sector is to blame for the current economic problems, then you must be working for a bailed out bank
  • edited November 2011
    The argument seems to be that everyone should be driven down to the lowest level, and not that people should be brought up. What a selfish country we are
    Sadly that is (unintended probably) a consequence of socialism.
    and your brand of libertarian capitalism has worked a threat.

    *Fully paid up Social Democrat here*  
  • Bo**ox to all this cause I ain't got it, you shouldn't have it either. You can can't have a pay rise, because I haven't had one!
    We had an agreement, they have gone back on it. It took years to work out, and get us to agree to it, which we did. Now its changed!!
    Fred Goodwin walked away with (I think) six million a year pension because it was in his terms and conditions, well guess what, its in mine that I have what I am getting now so leave it alone!
    Oh yes, and now we have been told we are having a 1% pay increase for the next two years on top of the pay freeze for the last five years for myself and thats on top of my 3% INCREASE in pension payments which I will have to work another couple of years to claim and when I do its will be for a lot less!
    Im walking out at midnight tonight, and Im proud to say it too.

    No one is saying you can't have it, just pay for it yourself.  Just like the rioters you think you can rob the taxpayer because no one stops you. 

    Fred Goodwin negotiated a deal holding the government to ransom, so I understand your affinity with his position. 

    Who did you negotiate with?  Not me. You negotiated a deal that me, my children and my grandchildren will pay for. The government are just trying to be fair, but fairness to taxpayers isn't something the public sector worry about. 

    The INCREASE in your contributions you get back when you retire.  You work longer because you live longer and because you live longer you get MORE not less.  The reduction in annual pension is minimal to make it go further as you live longer and your pension could actually be higher if your salary doesn't keep pace with CPI. If you get paid while you work what are you moaning about.  Will you be better off retired?  The public sector seem to work to retire not to live.

    Everyone mostly has had a pay freeze, why is it only the Public Sector who think they should be immune from any pain.

    If you lived in the real world you would see things differently.

  • Better not pay any taxes then, you might benefit from them
    Not really sure what this means (if anything).
  • edited November 2011
    bollox to you all striking 2morrow against it 110%  if thats OK AFKA.
  • The argument seems to be that everyone should be driven down to the lowest level, and not that people should be brought up. What a selfish country we are
    Sadly that is (unintended probably) a consequence of socialism.
    What socialism?  We've never had socialism.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!