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New Article: Living in Charlton Village in the 1950/60s

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  • If my memory serves  me correctly, you were only allowed to play with tennis balls in the playground at Sherrington? at least for a time as I think someone got a ball in the face who was not playing. The swimming pool was after my time, I remember David Rudd, Melvyn Hyham,Martin Chamberlain, Geoff Wood, Ray Saunders, a lad called
    DeLa Mere, another boy called Roberts who got run over, and had to wear 'callipairs' , 

    Remember lineing up and having endless bloody injections, with  looked like a metal injector, I remember the kids in there underpants and vests bawling.......

    Some of us used to run down  outside the school, god knows why? and one day chased the first black kid at the school called 'Coker' into the shops  near the bomb site at Bramshope Lane?, simply because he was 'black', and therefore different.  God knows why I chased him, never even spoken to a black kid before?.   He must have a tough time of it in the late 50s/. Mind you if you were fat, ginger, or in anyway 'foreign'..... and in my ignorance that probably meant the other side of Blackwall tunnel, you were fair game, according to my 'mates' ? I think they were still fighting the second world war, reading all the exploits in the Valiant, and Tiger?. 
  • edited November 2011
     
    Some of us used to run down  outside the school, god knows why? and one day chased the first black kid at the school called 'Coker' into the shops  near the bomb site at Bramshope Lane?, simply because he was 'black', and therefore different.  God knows why I chased him, never even spoken to a black kid before?.  

    The Cokers were well known in the 60's / 70's ... tough family ... used to see them in Mascalls Court for a while, opposite Cherry Orchard.
  • edited November 2011
    If my memory serves  me correctly, you were only allowed to play with tennis balls in the playground at Sherrington? at least for a time as I think someone got a ball in the face who was not playing. The swimming pool was after my time, I remember David Rudd, Melvyn Hyham,Martin Chamberlain, Geoff Wood, Ray Saunders, a lad called
    DeLa Mere, another boy called Roberts who got run over, and had to wear 'callipairs' , 

    Remember lineing up and having endless bloody injections, with  looked like a metal injector, I remember the kids in there underpants and vests bawling.......

    Some of us used to run down  outside the school, god knows why? and one day chased the first black kid at the school called 'Coker' into the shops  near the bomb site at Bramshope Lane?, simply because he was 'black', and therefore different.  God knows why I chased him, never even spoken to a black kid before?.   He must have a tough time of it in the late 50s/. Mind you if you were fat, ginger, or in anyway 'foreign'..... and in my ignorance that probably meant the other side of Blackwall tunnel, you were fair game, according to my 'mates' ? I think they were still fighting the second world war, reading all the exploits in the Valiant, and Tiger?. 
    I think you must have been in the year above me as I remember Ray Saunders and Lionel Delamare who were both older than me.

    I remember Mr Charman well - he used to live in Vanbrugh Park off the Standard - best teacher I ever met.

    I also remember Mr Scholar and his tales of Cornwall as well. Mr Skinner the Deputy Head and his `lady friend' Miss Morgan, Mr Sharp, Mr Parker, Miss Walsh the Music teacher, - later Mrs Griffiths - and Mrs Yates. I'd forgotten about Mr Pasha but have been reminded of him now!

    I was there the first year they opened the pool in the building between the top playgrounds, big fanfare but tiny it was!
  • I remember Ray Saunders, lived in Cherry Orchard, Rectory Field Crescent. 

     

    His younger brother Barry came with us on the Charlton trip to Tunisia in 1975. Used to be a picture of our group on the CL site before it was changed.

  • edited November 2011
     
    Some of us used to run down  outside the school, god knows why? and one day chased the first black kid at the school called 'Coker' into the shops  near the bomb site at Bramshope Lane?, simply because he was 'black', and therefore different.  God knows why I chased him, never even spoken to a black kid before?.  

    The Cokers were well known in the 60's / 70's ... tough family ... used to see them in Mascalls Court for a while, opposite Cherry Orchard.

    I remember my father having  quite a debate about hiring capenters/labourers on the school/building site at St Austen's school. My father was a union official and used to do the  members subscriptions around my house a couple of times a year with  his counterpart. Working class people had quite a fear of foreign workers,  out of ignorance and prejudice.My father took the view that you were either in or out of the union, supported your fellow worker or not. I can  only imagine the explotation, and suffering must have been outrageous.
  • edited November 2011
    The greengrocers in the village was Hardings. I remember him when Iwas a child and he was quite a miserable old man. Customer care was giving your Mum the right change!
  • Charlton Villager, can you check your inbox (in the top right of the screen). Thanks
  • me and my mates probably about 8 years of age used to catch the 89 bus over Shooters Hill armed with a jam jar and fishing net spending many happy hours catching sticklebacks in Danson Park lake.


    Hey, that was my patch!
    Agreed - Danson Park was great for catching tadpoles in jam jars and fishing for minnows.

    That and Oxleas Woods - damming the little stream, and trying to roast chestnuts on little twig fires.


  • Ken from Bexley and TCE. I wrote the original article and I could kick myself now for not including the shops that were in the village at the time.

    Wished I had thought of that.

    However you boys have missed a few retail outlets. There was Jaggs the jewellers near Paddy the Barber. I am ashamed to admit I cant think of the house number because my father was born in 1920 in the flat over the shop. There was a hardware shop that sold buckets and brooms etc and more important Esso Blue Parrafin which i would be sent on an errand to buy. I remember the man who owned the papershop on the corner of Landsdowne Lane only had one arm but he used one hand and arm with such skill he could  out do most people with two. Oh and of course Russell's toy shop and dry cleaners at 57 the Village (since demolished) which was owned by my Grandfather and later my Father. This was where I lived in my early years and it formed the basis of the article.

    There has to be a baker - Where was the baker ??????
    The hardware shop was called Deek's - Mr & Mrs Deeks lived down in Robertsbridge and commuted up daily to run the shop. They had a fire in there one Saturday basically when the paraffin went up, which was quite spectacular although fortunately nobody was injured. The shop was rebuilt and carried on for a few more years. The sweet shop at no. 11 was called Sandeman's and the couple that ran it were great family friends of ours. The greengrocer on the corner opposite the Bugle was Harding's and the wet fishmongers next door was run by Mr & Mrs Wells. Mr & Mrs Wells are still alive and can be seen from time to time in The Village although they are both quite elderly now. The Post Office (where you could also book coach trips) was run by Mr & Mrs Jones and my dear old Mum also used to work in there. Mrs Jones lived in retirement in Broadstairs until she passed away last year. There was a bakers but this was on the other side of the road (The Bugle side) and I think was located at the bottom end of the Village in the newer shops by The White Swan. Well before my time, according to my late Mum, we also had a bank in The Village, which was the first shop after St Luke's Church immediately as you enter the Village from Blackheath.
  • When I wrote the original article I did not appreciate the interest it would arouse but in hindsight we all have some wonderful memories. Some good and some bad. Nostalgia is great.

    That's life

    I tried to capture the mood of the time and relive some of my own recollections but you cannot get everything in an article without it becoming  a book or worst still becoming boring. Unfortunately you miss some very interesting events, places and more important people. You cannot remember everything 

    You Charlton Lifers have got me buzzing and have opened a wealth of forgotten details that i wish i had included in the the article.

    Many thanks  



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  • Charlton Villager, can you check your inbox (in the top right of the screen). Thanks
    Answered your -mail
  • Not sure what you did, but I've not got a reply.

    If not, email me at afka01@googlemail.com

    Cheers
  • I was at Kidbrooke Park Primary School and remembervhaving trrrific football matches against Sherrington in 1960/1961, the bes beingbthebCup Final, which we won 1-0 thanks to a David 'Wilma' Wilkins goal. Also had some terrific games against Charlton Manor. Did George Gill teach at the Manor?
  • edited November 2011
    Mr Charman was an excellent teacher, he must have been about 80 and always wore a thick brown woollen suit.
    won the shilling once for the most clues correct in the Telegraph quick crossword

    Only ever played once for Miss Yates' football team. George Gibbs went on to play pro football in the US
  • Ken from Bexley and TCE. I wrote the original article and I could kick myself now for not including the shops that were in the village at the time.

    Wished I had thought of that.

    However you boys have missed a few retail outlets. There was Jaggs the jewellers near Paddy the Barber. I am ashamed to admit I cant think of the house number because my father was born in 1920 in the flat over the shop. There was a hardware shop that sold buckets and brooms etc and more important Esso Blue Parrafin which i would be sent on an errand to buy. I remember the man who owned the papershop on the corner of Landsdowne Lane only had one arm but he used one hand and arm with such skill he could  out do most people with two. Oh and of course Russell's toy shop and dry cleaners at 57 the Village (since demolished) which was owned by my Grandfather and later my Father. This was where I lived in my early years and it formed the basis of the article.

    There has to be a baker - Where was the baker ??????
    The hardware shop was called Deek's - Mr & Mrs Deeks lived down in Robertsbridge and commuted up daily to run the shop. They had a fire in there one Saturday basically when the paraffin went up, which was quite spectacular although fortunately nobody was injured. The shop was rebuilt and carried on for a few more years. The sweet shop at no. 11 was called Sandeman's and the couple that ran it were great family friends of ours. The greengrocer on the corner opposite the Bugle was Harding's and the wet fishmongers next door was run by Mr & Mrs Wells. Mr & Mrs Wells are still alive and can be seen from time to time in The Village although they are both quite elderly now. The Post Office (where you could also book coach trips) was run by Mr & Mrs Jones and my dear old Mum also used to work in there. Mrs Jones lived in retirement in Broadstairs until she passed away last year. There was a bakers but this was on the other side of the road (The Bugle side) and I think was located at the bottom end of the Village in the newer shops by The White Swan. Well before my time, according to my late Mum, we also had a bank in The Village, which was the first shop after St Luke's Church immediately as you enter the Village from Blackheath.
    Thanks for the info, you have unlocked a lot of memories for me 'Tom'.  The story of the paraffin stove was quite a 'tale' at the time, can you imagine people walking in to a shop with a  hot paraffin stove on the go, The health and safety mob would have had a field day today?. I think it was after that very cold winter of the late 60s, we were having our front room redecorated by the council which they used to do, a couple of rooms every 5 years or so?. God that was a cold winter, that went on for  weeks, I remember having to walk to Bloomfield  lower school from  Springfields to do my mock 'O' levels. Maths/English. And then walk all the way back over  Woolwich common.
    I had to borrow my friends steel toe cap boots the following day, as my shoes were ruined, and taking the following days exam with no boots on, to let them dry out by the radiator. I think the 53 bus did run, but only to Woolwich. 
  • edited November 2011

    Going back to the teacher at Sherrington - Mr Charman.

    I was there 69-73 & think I remember him being brought back to teach a lesson once a week. He must have been late 80's early 90's.

    He taught maths. His favourite phrase was "tempus fugit"  - time flies.

    Is this the guy ?

  • Yep, it is.

    He had a knack of making any subject interesting and loved talking about his times in India.

  • Ken from Bexley and TCE. I wrote the original article and I could kick myself now for not including the shops that were in the village at the time.

    Wished I had thought of that.

    However you boys have missed a few retail outlets. There was Jaggs the jewellers near Paddy the Barber. I am ashamed to admit I cant think of the house number because my father was born in 1920 in the flat over the shop. There was a hardware shop that sold buckets and brooms etc and more important Esso Blue Parrafin which i would be sent on an errand to buy. I remember the man who owned the papershop on the corner of Landsdowne Lane only had one arm but he used one hand and arm with such skill he could  out do most people with two. Oh and of course Russell's toy shop and dry cleaners at 57 the Village (since demolished) which was owned by my Grandfather and later my Father. This was where I lived in my early years and it formed the basis of the article.

    There has to be a baker - Where was the baker ??????
    The hardware shop was called Deek's - Mr & Mrs Deeks lived down in Robertsbridge and commuted up daily to run the shop. They had a fire in there one Saturday basically when the paraffin went up, which was quite spectacular although fortunately nobody was injured. The shop was rebuilt and carried on for a few more years. The sweet shop at no. 11 was called Sandeman's and the couple that ran it were great family friends of ours. The greengrocer on the corner opposite the Bugle was Harding's and the wet fishmongers next door was run by Mr & Mrs Wells. Mr & Mrs Wells are still alive and can be seen from time to time in The Village although they are both quite elderly now. The Post Office (where you could also book coach trips) was run by Mr & Mrs Jones and my dear old Mum also used to work in there. Mrs Jones lived in retirement in Broadstairs until she passed away last year. There was a bakers but this was on the other side of the road (The Bugle side) and I think was located at the bottom end of the Village in the newer shops by The White Swan. Well before my time, according to my late Mum, we also had a bank in The Village, which was the first shop after St Luke's Church immediately as you enter the Village from Blackheath.
    Thanks for the info, you have unlocked a lot of memories for me 'Tom'.  The story of the paraffin stove was quite a 'tale' at the time, can you imagine people walking in to a shop with a  hot paraffin stove on the go, The health and safety mob would have had a field day today?. I think it was after that very cold winter of the late 60s, we were having our front room redecorated by the council which they used to do, a couple of rooms every 5 years or so?. God that was a cold winter, that went on for  weeks, I remember having to walk to Bloomfield  lower school from  Springfields to do my mock 'O' levels. Maths/English. And then walk all the way back over  Woolwich common.
    I had to borrow my friends steel toe cap boots the following day, as my shoes were ruined, and taking the following days exam with no boots on, to let them dry out by the radiator. I think the 53 bus did run, but only to Woolwich. 
    Hi Ken - yes this thread has certainly captured people's imaginations - especially those of us of a certain age brought up in and around Charlton in the 60s and 70s. The Village, although in the London suburbs, was essentially a small village with all of the characteristics that go with it - local shops, a strong community spirit and many local characters. Other shops that come to mind - we had two butchers shops - Hedley Vicars, which was on the 'Bugle' side located where the curry house now is and the Co-op butchers which had a seperate shop to the main Co-op and was located almost directly opposite and I think is where Coomes bookies is now located. The bookie was originally on the opposite side of the road, but moved across to what was always felt to the more lucrative side when the Co-op butcher moved into the main store. When you think back, The Village had everything really - a large grocers (the Co-op), two butchers shops, a fishmongers, a Post Office, two pubs, shoe repairers, drapers, newsagents, sweet shop - everything for the local community.

    By the way Ken - the Invicta Road School project is still very much alive and I haven't forgotten you - as soon as everything is finalised, I will be sure to let you know what is happening. The firemen's charity is struggling a bit for cash at the moment but they are working towards it. Cheers Steve
  • It's great that Mr Charman (John Charman?) is getting such positive comments.  He really was something special.

    Now that I'm nicely warmed up, the memories are starting to come back.  Here are a few names that I recall from the class of the early 1960s (forgive the spelling and any inaccuracies, but it was a long time ago) ....

    Ainsley Allmark, Cliff Parkes, Lionel DeLaMare, Colin Dunkley, Phil Snow, Melvin Higham, Geoff Wood, Eddie Snell, Simon Peake, David Mills, Stan Langford, Ray Saunders, Nigel Paine, Ray Tredwell, Geoff Dyett

    Anyone else from Sherington remember merit badges? 

    And Mr Sly ... the caretaker? 

  • Well Dave Rudd some of these names are familiar to me Simon Peake was the big brother of Nicky Peake who was in my year. When I first knew Nick the family were living in Wellington Gardens but moved onto Charlton Road. Nick was very clever and a gifted artist I believe if memory serves me correctly he went to St Olaves when he left Sherington. I knew Ray Saunders well I went to school with his brother Barry all the way through from Cherry Orchard to Eltham Green. They came from a large family and as previously said lived in Rectory Field Crescent. Ray sadly got murdered down in Abbey Wood quite some years ago.

     

    Glad I made mention of Mr. Charmers now it seems to a man we all liked and respected him and as said you will never ever see the like of him in modern education he was a great teacher.

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  • I only recognise Ray Saunders from that bunch, and yes, Merit badges.

    The only Indian boy in our class was Reminder Jit Singh, i remember him because Mr Charman really looked after him and had a great fondness for all things Indian.

    Buying 5 Park drive from the paper shop in Bramshott avenue and going up to the wasteground besides what is now the motorway to cough our lungs up.

  • Well Dave Rudd some of these names are familiar to me Simon Peake was the big brother of Nicky Peake who was in my year. When I first knew Nick the family were living in Wellington Gardens but moved onto Charlton Road. Nick was very clever and a gifted artist I believe if memory serves me correctly he went to St Olaves when he left Sherington. I knew Ray Saunders well I went to school with his brother Barry all the way through from Cherry Orchard to Eltham Green. They came from a large family and as previously said lived in Rectory Field Crescent. Ray sadly got murdered down in Abbey Wood quite some years ago.

     

    Glad I made mention of Mr. Charmers now it seems to a man we all liked and respected him and as said you will never ever see the like of him in modern education he was a great teacher.

    Yes, Simon Peake lived in Wellington Gardens ... one of those three-storey places on the left just as you go into the road from Victoria Way.  Number 80-something, I think.

    There are some interesting bits of history on the Sherington site.  You can find a few inspection reports and reminiscences of former pupils by logging on (User name: Sherington   Password: guest) and looking in the Centenary folder.

    http://webfronter.com/greenwich/sherington/

     

      

  • edited November 2011

    Surprised that the name Alan Sanford (a mod from the mid 60's) hasn't come up.....(Cherry Orchard if my memory serves me right), he was quite a well known character in The Village. Now lives in St Marys Cray I believe.

    Around 65/66 he got stitched up at The Valley accused of assaulting a copper called Stibbards in The Covered End....I was standing right next to him and it was handbags stuff to be honest. Though the crowd was surging and maybe Stibbards went down in the melle but Alan had little or nothing to do with actually assaulting him as was suggested.

    Stibbards and the local media made a huge deal out of it (time off work, old and popular well known Beat Bobby in the local area etc etc) and poor old Alan got absolutely crucified for something that was so insignificant. He was a big fella, they needed a fall guy and he was the perfect target.

    Alan was greatly affected by it and was never quite the same 'larger than life' bubbly character after that.

  • Name rings a bell Soundas but can't put a face to him but do recall the story as it went round the estate at the time

     

  • Likewise, the name rings a bell.
  • Big dark haired fella, went to Charlton School good centre forward and played for UGB Pantiles..............would be about 63 now.

    Been told he's a good pal of Jimmy Woods nowadays.......I've not seen him for years.

  • It's great that Mr Charman (John Charman?) is getting such positive comments.  He really was something special.

    Now that I'm nicely warmed up, the memories are starting to come back.  Here are a few names that I recall from the class of the early 1960s (forgive the spelling and any inaccuracies, but it was a long time ago) ....

    Ainsley Allmark, Cliff Parkes, Lionel DeLaMare, Colin Dunkley, Phil Snow, Melvin Higham, Geoff Wood, Eddie Snell, Simon Peake, David Mills, Stan Langford, Ray Saunders, Nigel Paine, Ray Tredwell, Geoff Dyett

    Anyone else from Sherington remember merit badges? 

    And Mr Sly ... the caretaker? 

    Good memory Dave.
    Geoff Wood, lived with martin Chamberlain @ Elliscombe Mount opposite  Springfields. There was a Micheal Callaghan as well, I was good friends with Melvyn  Higham,  Peter Matthes and Martin Chamberlain went to Bloomfield with myself. Me and Geoff Wood used to play tennis at the Blackheath tennis club, up until I went to art college, he went into the Insurance game.Phil Snow, myself and Martin Chamberlain spent the  weekend in a tent in Harvey's  Garden,opposite the Valley in the last year of Sherrington. There was a lad who went to Sherrington who got a part in the stage production of Oliver called James,when it premiered in 1960. 
    I also remember Ray Tredwell and Geoff Dyett.....Lionel DeLaMare, remember him from those poems by Walter DeLa Mare. local poet, with a name like that he must have been a relation?
    Did Charlton used to train somewhere on the lower Road at Charlton  in the  early mid 60s, or did I just dream that....... certainly went down to the Valley and there with Geoff wood and Martin Chamberlain. 50 years ago so a bit hazy with that?
  • Charlton Village is a real buzz on football days and i can honestly say the local community win as well! 

  • It's great that Mr Charman (John Charman?) is getting such positive comments.  He really was something special.

    Now that I'm nicely warmed up, the memories are starting to come back.  Here are a few names that I recall from the class of the early 1960s (forgive the spelling and any inaccuracies, but it was a long time ago) ....

    Ainsley Allmark, Cliff Parkes, Lionel DeLaMare, Colin Dunkley, Phil Snow, Melvin Higham, Geoff Wood, Eddie Snell, Simon Peake, David Mills, Stan Langford, Ray Saunders, Nigel Paine, Ray Tredwell, Geoff Dyett

    Anyone else from Sherington remember merit badges? 

    And Mr Sly ... the caretaker? 

    Good memory Dave.
    Geoff Wood, lived with martin Chamberlain @ Elliscombe Mount opposite  Springfields. There was a Micheal Callaghan as well, I was good friends with Melvyn  Higham,  Peter Matthes and Martin Chamberlain went to Bloomfield with myself. Me and Geoff Wood used to play tennis at the Blackheath tennis club, up until I went to art college, he went into the Insurance game.Phil Snow, myself and Martin Chamberlain spent the  weekend in a tent in Harvey's  Garden,opposite the Valley in the last year of Sherrington. There was a lad who went to Sherrington who got a part in the stage production of Oliver called James,when it premiered in 1960. 

    I also remember Ray Tredwell and Geoff Dyett.....Lionel DeLaMare, remember him from those poems by Walter DeLa Mare. local poet, with a name like that he must have been a relation?

    Did Charlton used to train somewhere on the lower Road at Charlton  in the  early mid 60s, or did I just dream that....... certainly went down to the Valley and there with Geoff wood and Martin Chamberlain. 50 years ago so a bit hazy with that?
    They used to train at Stones Sports Ground..on the lower road.
  • Mike Bailey and various other Charlton players used to take us for football training when i was at Charlton Secondary School in the early 60's.
    Even in those days Charlton was a good forward thinking club winning hearts and minds of the youngsters.  
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