What I do NOT understand about all of this is why Morecombe can build a new ground with Safe Standing but if a similarily supported sized club in The Championship like Scunthorpe can not.
So if Morecombe achieve Championship status they will have 3 years to convert their safe standing into seats despite the fact they have a brand new ground with safe standing, is that right? How ridiculous ! Is the value of a supporters safety less important in the two lower leagues then ? I should think not, its because they know there is no issue with standing or they would never have been able to build it to that spec.
How about lets have all seater tube stations or all seater firework displays then, they both represent an element of overcrowding and danger to a certain degree !
It is such a miserable sight like at Plymouth last month to see an empty unused piece of terracing. If there are concerns for overcrowding then put a series of turnstiles in place so that they shut down after the terrace has filled to the desirable capacity.
If it is a genuine safety issue, why are other European and Worldwide clubs not having to conform to it ? Why isn't is a general Fifa regulation ? Or is it a bit like prison sentances in punishments not being equal across the whole playing field.
[cite]Posted By: IA[/cite]FOD, they don't legally have to, but if they want to be a Championship club for more than two seasons in the future, it's a choice between making London Road all-seater and closing the terraces
I disagree with the above link so so much. The stupidest regulation of them all is
[cite]Posted By: Football Licensing Authority[/cite]Once a club has been required to go all seated it must remain so.
I've heard their owner giving plans to make the ground all-seater at the end of last season if they survived up there, and their fans mentioned it too yesterday. Can't find a link.
Where does it say that Peterborough are seating their terrace at the end of the season?
I was told by a Peterborough fan that this is the last season of the away terrace in London Road.
Sorry, I couldn't find a link apart from the one which states that they have to make it all-seater if they want to be in the Championship or higher long term
[cite]Posted By: Choice[/cite]If it is a genuine safety issue, why are other European and Worldwide clubs not having to conform to it ? Why isn't is a general Fifa regulation ?
This is a key point.
Well said, Choice.
And BTW, my Dad first took me down The Valley in 1964 - and I relate to just about everything you say in your article.
It's not just about hankering after the good days, it's about the essance of what really matters to real fans during a matchday.
[cite]Posted By: Choice[/cite]What I do NOT understand about all of this is why Morecombe can build a new ground with Safe Standing but if a similarily supported sized club in The Championship like Scunthorpe can not.
Spot on
Even if Scunthorpe get relegated back to League 2 they'll still have to have an all-seater ground. You can't go "backwards".
If memory serves, Darlington have a massive all-seater ground that probably brought with it their financial difficulties and relegation out of the league
[cite]Posted By: BDL[/cite]The last government made noises about changing the regulations when an election was on the horizon to try and make themselves a bit more popular, no chance under this current lot
[cite]Posted By: BDL[/cite]The last government made noises about changing the regulations when an election was on the horizon to try and make themselves a bit more popular, no chance under this current lot
BDL, have corrected your post.
Rothko will put me right here, but I'm sure it was being mentioned in 97
[cite aria-level=0 aria-posinset=0 aria-setsize=0]Posted By: BDL[/cite]The last government made noises about changing the regulations when an election was on the horizon to try and make themselves a bit more popular, no chance under this current lot
BDL, have corrected your post.
Rothko will put me right here, but I'm sure it was being mentioned in 97
They had 13 years to do something about it and chose not to.
since sky came in the standard of football has risen dramatically imo , many more people go to football games crowds are well up
we used to have 4k at the valley for 2nd tier fixtures in the 80's
thru tv the game is more accessible than ever before
most people have a choice whether to watch it or not
the price of footy has gone up but are sky to blame(so so much cheaper in the bundesliga) when they pump money into the game or is it the greedy egotistical chairman who chase the buck and are willing to get themselves into stupid amounts of debt by paying over the top fees and wages for the game and most of the doughnuts are paying for it now
football is one of the most ridiculously run things ever
i have mates who got to liverpool 6-7 times a season before football became trendy and still do but they're well pleased they can see their team on telly as well
there are plenty of times grounds are sold out for live fixtures and fans must be well pleased they can see the game live on tv , for example our sell out at mkdons recently ;-)
as for standing well the germans have it so why haven't we got that choice , probably the panic measures that came in early
those surges were the greatest parts of football as a kid and the looping and voguing that took place after any goal we got!
the play offs are great and st.andrews was pre sky and we had 1800 fans for that cos it was a friday night 745pm game, i'm sure loads of others would have loved the opportunity to have seen that match but sky wasn't about back then
jeff stelling's score round up is great for those who have family commitments and can't get to all the games ......
Great post, Choice, I agree with most of what you say except I DO wish that Vinnie Jones was Welsh, or in fact any nationality that would result in his ugly mug being seen less on film/TV.
A very passionate plea, but being honest I am not sure what you want?
A return to standing? I will back you there no problem, I manage to stand up several times each day without falling over and I am pretty sure I am not in a minority so we should be able to do it safely.
What else though? You can criticise Sky all you like but they have marketed the English top flight worldwide and made a hell of a lot of money from it. A lot of that cash has then been passed to the clubs. The standard of stadia (seated or otherwise) is light years away from what it was in the 70's and 80's (which quite frankly was pretty universally awful). That clubs are now handing the majority of that money to the players is not Sky's fault.
People moan about the amount of football on TV but in England you still cannot see the 3pm Saturday kick-offs live. Although the number of posts I see looking for online feeds of these 3pm games when Charlton are available suggests that moans about the amount of games on TV is a case of 'The lady doth protest too much'.
I will admit I don't enjoy watching games as much as when I was younger, but as a child you enjoy virtually everything more than you do as an adult, simply because with more experiences the chances of seeing something new, something different are diminished.
You can blame sky, you can blame seats but in reality you should just blame the fact that you are older.
[cite]Posted By: kigelia[/cite]A lot of that cash has then been passed to the clubs. The standard of stadia (seated or otherwise) is light years away from what it was in the 70's and 80's (which quite frankly was pretty universally awful). That clubs are now handing the majority of that money to the players is not Sky's fault
The article wasnt a plea, its the way I see the game now compared to the way I saw the game pre SKY.
It was intended to trigger memories pre SKY and ask the question is football really that enjoyable these days in comparison ? how it is for me & how it is for you ?
Personally I dont want to sit in sqeaky clean stadia with over zealous stewards trying to make a name for themselves. I want to experience football the way it was intended, if god had intended football to be watched from seats then they would have been installed from the start.
You also mention its not SKYs fault that the clubs are handing the money over to the players ! Well im afraid it is their fault because they give it to the clubs in the first place and SKY Tv changed the face of football in 1992 with the intention of making money and stripping the game of everything that used to make it a working mans sport and a release of adreneline at the end of the working mans week. Pre SKY - agents wernt calling the shots to the degree they are now ! Players wernt calling the shots to the managers the way the do now ! Players honoured contracts ! Players loved their clubs ! Expectancy levels were realistic and managers kept their jobs for longer than 5 games ! You could go on and on - the list is endless !
[cite]Posted By: kigelia[/cite]You can blame sky, you can blame seats but in reality you should just blame the fact that you are older.
In answer to this quote - your off the mark with this. Yes its true that as a child you enjoy everything a lot more but I enjoyed Saturday on the terrace just like i would have done 25 years ago so age is not a factor. The post was merely my thoughts when i woke up on Sunday morning and realised that football can still have the impact on me the way it did when i was younger and that was because......of the ground and the fans and that was triggered by.....a terrace.
Not much to ask is it ? - To make you remember when football was an enjoyable working mans game ?
Can't agree with that Kigelia. Sky have handed over a lot of money to clubs, yes, but only those at the top. They've made the top flight a closed shop, and within that they've made the top 6 a closed shop. Never again will we see the likes of Nottingham Forest or Derby take the top flight by storm immediately after being promoted purely as a result of being well coached and managed.
Who wins and who loses at the top of the game is decided on bank balance alone and the consequences of falling off the gravy train are so dire that clubs have no option but to over commit themselves financially just to keep in touch. Chairmen and chief executives are now nearly as famous as the managers they employ. Sky has played a major part in this.
To give you an example, close to home, of the sorry state the game is in, this very message board has been frequently dominated over the last two years by excited speculation about the possibility of this club being taken over by some ultra wealthy consortium. Remember the hysteria when Zabeel were interested in us? It doesn't matter how many jewels are unearthed by our youth academy, it doesn't matter if by some stroke of luck or genius we manage to unearth the next Clough, Fergueson or Mourinho, because we all know that without a bottomless pit of cash, the level of success that we, or any other club in the Football League,can ever hope to acheive is severely limited. That cannot be right.
As for terracing, it's been said on here (very elequently by Choice) and elsewhere many, many times over. The ban on terracing in this country is an utter farce, something for the authorities to hide behind instead of issuing a full and frank acknowledgement of their exclusive responsibility for the Hillsborough disaster. I recently saw a video of Oasis performing at Manchester City's stadium - there were bottles flying, crowd surges, people dancing on their seats, I even saw people climbing over the balcony from the upper tier to the lower tier. This is apparently perfectly acceptable, but when the very same seats are occupied by football supporters a few days later, a completely different set of rules apply. Ridiculous.
I think this article over looks the changes in society and trys to lay the blame for all the ills of the footballing world at the feet of someone else.
Dads working all week then getting the chance to relax at the footie with their sons.
You did notice the femanist revolution didn't you? Women also work all week now and like to go to the footie at the weekend an sometimes take their daughters with them. The ban of standing has in a small way faciitiatedfootball becoming a family sport.
Whilst I agree with some of your tub thumping, I'm sorry but some of it is plan sexist so no, you can't have your working MANS game back.
[cite]Posted By: kigelia[/cite]You can criticise Sky all you like but they have marketed the English top flight worldwide and made a hell of a lot of money from it.
This is my point entirely and you highlight this yourself. Im sure also in recent times that Portsmouth, Chester & Sheffield Wednesday wouldnt agree that the money in the game has helped, except help greedy chairman run their ships badly - the ones who really dont give a damn about football in general and are only in it for the money.
Was it 6 chairman at Portsmouth that screwed that club over, 2 at Liverpool now forced out, 2 at Manchester United that nobody wants, im sure Randy Lerner at Villa doesnt understand grass roots English football. So theres just a few examples.
Every time you read about a club being subject of an Arabian or Chinese takeover you can be rest assured that the bods running that club will have no passion for football or affiliation with that club. You can wrap scarves round your neck and have your smiley photos taken with your new toy (the boring squeaky clean stadium) in the backdrop but at the end of the day you are in it for the money and the money only. This is whats ruining the game and destroying the clubs.....and the money came from SKY.
This is why RM will not sell out to just anyone, because he wants it to be in the best interests of the club because......he is a proper football chairman who understands the roots of Charlton Athletic and the fans !
The Football League are the main culprits as they sold out to SKY in the first place !
[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]I think this article over looks the changes in society and trys to lay the blame for all the ills of the footballing world at the feet of someone else.
Dads working all week then getting the chance to relax at the footie with their sons.
You did notice the femanist revolution didn't you? Women also work all week now and like to go to the footie at the weekend an sometimes take their daughters with them. The ban of standing has in a small way faciitiatedfootball becoming a family sport.
Whilst I agree with some of your tub thumping, I'm sorry but some of it is plan sexist so no, you can't have your working MANS game back.
Sad to see this post, even sadder that you missed the point and decided to imply im a sexist ! You obviously can't relate to this article !
Yes i did prefer things the way they were in that respect but thats my personal opinion, doesnt make me sexist though.
This post sums up society today: Why you can't sit on Father Christmas's knee anymore, why there is a mommy christmas, the fact you cant buy blackjacks, the reason you can't video your child at his school play, the reason you cant ask for a black coffee in some places.
[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]I think this article over looks the changes in society and trys to lay the blame for all the ills of the footballing world at the feet of someone else.
Dads working all week then getting the chance to relax at the footie with their sons.
You did notice the femanist revolution didn't you? Women also work all week now and like to go to the footie at the weekend an sometimes take their daughters with them. The ban of standing has in a small way faciitiatedfootball becoming a family sport.
Whilst I agree with some of your tub thumping, I'm sorry but some of it is plan sexist so no, you can't have your working MANS game back.
Sad to see this post, even sadder that you missed the point and decided to imply im a sexist ! You obviously can't relate to this article !
Yes i did prefer things the way they were in that respect but thats my personal opinion, doesnt make me sexist though.
This post sums up society today: Why you can't sit on Father Christmas's knee anymore, why there is a mommy christmas, the fact you cant buy blackjacks, the reason you can't video your child at his school play, the reason you cant ask for a black coffee in some places.
You totally right, I can't related to this article because my view of football isn't a father working down t'pit Monday to Friday, coming home and giving my mother some house keeping money, then going for a pint of best with his son before standign to watch the football on Saturday.
But I deeply suspect yours isn't either.
Sorry that you don't want to take any critisim for your rant but, as you know, the world was so much better in the 1950s when women and children were seen but not heard.
and one more thing.
Really, name the me one place were you couldn't buy a black coffee. The Daily Mail is such a nice paper isn't it.
[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]I think this article over looks the changes in society and trys to lay the blame for all the ills of the footballing world at the feet of someone else.
Dads working all week then getting the chance to relax at the footie with their sons.
You did notice the femanist revolution didn't you? Women also work all week now and like to go to the footie at the weekend an sometimes take their daughters with them. The ban of standing has in a small way faciitiatedfootball becoming a family sport.
Whilst I agree with some of your tub thumping, I'm sorry but some of it is plan sexist so no, you can't have your working MANS game back.
Then why is standing so prevalent in Germany ... and families attend on a regular basis?
[cite]Posted By: DRF[/cite]I think this article over looks the changes in society and trys to lay the blame for all the ills of the footballing world at the feet of someone else.
Dads working all week then getting the chance to relax at the footie with their sons.
You did notice the femanist revolution didn't you? Women also work all week now and like to go to the footie at the weekend an sometimes take their daughters with them. The ban of standing has in a small way faciitiatedfootball becoming a family sport.
Whilst I agree with some of your tub thumping, I'm sorry but some of it is plan sexist so no, you can't have your working MANS game back.
Then why is standing so prevalent in Germany ... and families attend on a regular basis?
LOL, great rant Choice. Don't agree with all of it, but great rant !
I don't blame Sky, in fact i don't blame anyone because things evolved and you don't realise too much at the time, but if anything i blame the active football public of which i am part of.
If the paying football fan on mass said they were not going to pay the price of top flight tickets anymore and made a stand, the game would have to re-address itself. If all those people who moan about Sky's influence cancelled their subscriptions, then they would not have the impact they have. Outside of laws, companies may introduce change but it is always the public that ensure whether it is enforced or not.
At the end of the day though, people won't cancel their subscriptions because ultimately they want all or part of the product on offer, and people won't not renew their overpriced season tickets, or boycott away games because there is more often than not always some other mug at the top level who will pay it, and they don't want to be the one who misses out.
In terms of what football should be, it should be about balance and catering for all aspects that make up support. It shouldn't all be governed by single blokes on the booze, but equally it shouldn't be solely aimed at happy families sharing the 'matchday experience'.
I go some games with my mates, others with my wife and family, including a ten-year old girl. I'm pretty comfortable i can balance both those aspects following Charlton, and can't wait to introduce my kids to it when they are older.
But i'm very much in the camp that while 'going to football' should cater for all safely, it has to retain its 'earthiness' that keeps it very much real and gives it its edge from other forms of 'entertainment'. My wife and her sister virtually grew up on the East Terrace in the 70s / early 80s, they enjoyed it just fine without shiny seats and Wimpy outlets. I just searched back and read what i wrote after our away game at Arsenal's Emerites nearly 4 years ago.....
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]
The American experience.
It was there for all to see last night. All that was missing was the oversize foam hands, an organ and some popcorn.
Its not a football ground, its not even a stadium. Its an Arena. One night Arsenal, the next night Sheryl Crow.
The outside is like Bluewater, and the inside felt like i had been transported into the crowd of a computer game. Nothing seemed real, everything is false. There is no soul, no atmosphere, no character.
If that is what the Premiership is going to be about, £3.20 a drink and sittting in theatre seats, then i'm more than happy to be dropping out this league, because going to football has got a lot bigger than a simple football game now. Its a corporate sham, with as many extras as possible clipped onto your 'matchday experience' to eek another couple of quid out.
Give me the tin pot shed at Layer Road, give me the intimidation of Ninian Park, give me the pies at Burnley, and the dripping roof of the Arthur Waite.
And give me the soul of The Valley, something Arsenal will never have again.
)
I want to see us do well, but i still want that 'realness' retained. If its not already disappeared from some top flight grounds, i'm pretty sure it wil soon. My boys will never ever get the pure buzz that a packed terrace can provide, and i think that is a real shame.
[cite]Posted By: kigelia[/cite]You can criticise Sky all you like but they have marketed the English top flight worldwide and made a hell of a lot of money from it.
This is my point entirely and you highlight this yourself. Im sure also in recent times that Portsmouth, Chester & Sheffield Wednesday wouldnt agree that the money in the game has helped, except help greedy chairman run their ships badly - the ones who really dont give a damn about football in general and are only in it for the money.
Was it 6 chairman at Portsmouth that screwed that club over, 2 at Liverpool now forced out, 2 at Manchester United that nobody wants, im sure Randy Lerner at Villa doesnt understand grass roots English football. So theres just a few examples.
Not quite sure you got my point really. Sky have made money and so have the clubs (not all I would agree). You can criticise Sky (and UEFA with the champions league money) for dangling the financial carrot in front of eyes of chairman and encouraging the excess. Sky may have loaded the gun but the chairman are the ones who fired it.
Those clubs who got themselves into trouble (and I include us in that) had a pretty good idea what their maximum and minimum revenue would be year on year and were unable to budget to stay even within the maximum in some cases. You can blame Sky for that if you like but I won't be joining you.
I stand by my view that your article was simply nostalgia, but will add that I was impressed by the passion of your argument. I may not agree with what you said but I liked the way you said it.
I started going to football at Watling Street to watch Dartford with my Dad. It did not involve drinking before the game, jumping around and shouting - he went to watch the match because he likes football.
The only reason I go now is because I like football.
I watch Charlton home games, occasional Dartford games and I watch a lot of Sky TV games. All because I like football. I do not go because I like to get drunk before the match, jump around and shout loads.
So, please don't rant at me if I don't get involved in the drinking, jumping, shouting or anti-Sky ranting. I am at heart just a football lover :-)
Comments
So if Morecombe achieve Championship status they will have 3 years to convert their safe standing into seats despite the fact they have a brand new ground with safe standing, is that right? How ridiculous ! Is the value of a supporters safety less important in the two lower leagues then ? I should think not, its because they know there is no issue with standing or they would never have been able to build it to that spec.
How about lets have all seater tube stations or all seater firework displays then, they both represent an element of overcrowding and danger to a certain degree !
It is such a miserable sight like at Plymouth last month to see an empty unused piece of terracing. If there are concerns for overcrowding then put a series of turnstiles in place so that they shut down after the terrace has filled to the desirable capacity.
If it is a genuine safety issue, why are other European and Worldwide clubs not having to conform to it ? Why isn't is a general Fifa regulation ? Or is it a bit like prison sentances in punishments not being equal across the whole playing field.
Sorry, I couldn't find a link apart from the one which states that they have to make it all-seater if they want to be in the Championship or higher long term
First paragraph
They wanted to build a new ground
He makes a lot of statements, this Mr MacAnthony
Posh in the Premier League?
This is a key point.
Well said, Choice.
And BTW, my Dad first took me down The Valley in 1964 - and I relate to just about everything you say in your article.
It's not just about hankering after the good days, it's about the essance of what really matters to real fans during a matchday.
Spot on
Even if Scunthorpe get relegated back to League 2 they'll still have to have an all-seater ground. You can't go "backwards".
If memory serves, Darlington have a massive all-seater ground that probably brought with it their financial difficulties and relegation out of the league
BDL, have corrected your post.
Rothko will put me right here, but I'm sure it was being mentioned in 97
They had 13 years to do something about it and chose not to.
Great article Choice
It ain't gonna happen.
You'll never hear me say this again, I wish we were German.
we used to have 4k at the valley for 2nd tier fixtures in the 80's
thru tv the game is more accessible than ever before
most people have a choice whether to watch it or not
the price of footy has gone up but are sky to blame(so so much cheaper in the bundesliga) when they pump money into the game or is it the greedy egotistical chairman who chase the buck and are willing to get themselves into stupid amounts of debt by paying over the top fees and wages for the game and most of the doughnuts are paying for it now
football is one of the most ridiculously run things ever
i have mates who got to liverpool 6-7 times a season before football became trendy and still do but they're well pleased they can see their team on telly as well
there are plenty of times grounds are sold out for live fixtures and fans must be well pleased they can see the game live on tv , for example our sell out at mkdons recently ;-)
as for standing well the germans have it so why haven't we got that choice , probably the panic measures that came in early
those surges were the greatest parts of football as a kid and the looping and voguing that took place after any goal we got!
the play offs are great and st.andrews was pre sky and we had 1800 fans for that cos it was a friday night 745pm game, i'm sure loads of others would have loved the opportunity to have seen that match but sky wasn't about back then
jeff stelling's score round up is great for those who have family commitments and can't get to all the games ......
A return to standing? I will back you there no problem, I manage to stand up several times each day without falling over and I am pretty sure I am not in a minority so we should be able to do it safely.
What else though? You can criticise Sky all you like but they have marketed the English top flight worldwide and made a hell of a lot of money from it. A lot of that cash has then been passed to the clubs. The standard of stadia (seated or otherwise) is light years away from what it was in the 70's and 80's (which quite frankly was pretty universally awful). That clubs are now handing the majority of that money to the players is not Sky's fault.
People moan about the amount of football on TV but in England you still cannot see the 3pm Saturday kick-offs live. Although the number of posts I see looking for online feeds of these 3pm games when Charlton are available suggests that moans about the amount of games on TV is a case of 'The lady doth protest too much'.
I will admit I don't enjoy watching games as much as when I was younger, but as a child you enjoy virtually everything more than you do as an adult, simply because with more experiences the chances of seeing something new, something different are diminished.
You can blame sky, you can blame seats but in reality you should just blame the fact that you are older.
The article wasnt a plea, its the way I see the game now compared to the way I saw the game pre SKY.
It was intended to trigger memories pre SKY and ask the question is football really that enjoyable these days in comparison ? how it is for me & how it is for you ?
Personally I dont want to sit in sqeaky clean stadia with over zealous stewards trying to make a name for themselves. I want to experience football the way it was intended, if god had intended football to be watched from seats then they would have been installed from the start.
You also mention its not SKYs fault that the clubs are handing the money over to the players ! Well im afraid it is their fault because they give it to the clubs in the first place and SKY Tv changed the face of football in 1992 with the intention of making money and stripping the game of everything that used to make it a working mans sport and a release of adreneline at the end of the working mans week. Pre SKY - agents wernt calling the shots to the degree they are now ! Players wernt calling the shots to the managers the way the do now ! Players honoured contracts ! Players loved their clubs ! Expectancy levels were realistic and managers kept their jobs for longer than 5 games ! You could go on and on - the list is endless !
In answer to this quote - your off the mark with this. Yes its true that as a child you enjoy everything a lot more but I enjoyed Saturday on the terrace just like i would have done 25 years ago so age is not a factor. The post was merely my thoughts when i woke up on Sunday morning and realised that football can still have the impact on me the way it did when i was younger and that was because......of the ground and the fans and that was triggered by.....a terrace.
Not much to ask is it ? - To make you remember when football was an enjoyable working mans game ?
Who wins and who loses at the top of the game is decided on bank balance alone and the consequences of falling off the gravy train are so dire that clubs have no option but to over commit themselves financially just to keep in touch. Chairmen and chief executives are now nearly as famous as the managers they employ. Sky has played a major part in this.
To give you an example, close to home, of the sorry state the game is in, this very message board has been frequently dominated over the last two years by excited speculation about the possibility of this club being taken over by some ultra wealthy consortium. Remember the hysteria when Zabeel were interested in us? It doesn't matter how many jewels are unearthed by our youth academy, it doesn't matter if by some stroke of luck or genius we manage to unearth the next Clough, Fergueson or Mourinho, because we all know that without a bottomless pit of cash, the level of success that we, or any other club in the Football League,can ever hope to acheive is severely limited. That cannot be right.
As for terracing, it's been said on here (very elequently by Choice) and elsewhere many, many times over. The ban on terracing in this country is an utter farce, something for the authorities to hide behind instead of issuing a full and frank acknowledgement of their exclusive responsibility for the Hillsborough disaster. I recently saw a video of Oasis performing at Manchester City's stadium - there were bottles flying, crowd surges, people dancing on their seats, I even saw people climbing over the balcony from the upper tier to the lower tier. This is apparently perfectly acceptable, but when the very same seats are occupied by football supporters a few days later, a completely different set of rules apply. Ridiculous.
Dads working all week then getting the chance to relax at the footie with their sons.
You did notice the femanist revolution didn't you? Women also work all week now and like to go to the footie at the weekend an sometimes take their daughters with them. The ban of standing has in a small way faciitiatedfootball becoming a family sport.
Whilst I agree with some of your tub thumping, I'm sorry but some of it is plan sexist so no, you can't have your working MANS game back.
This is my point entirely and you highlight this yourself. Im sure also in recent times that Portsmouth, Chester & Sheffield Wednesday wouldnt agree that the money in the game has helped, except help greedy chairman run their ships badly - the ones who really dont give a damn about football in general and are only in it for the money.
Was it 6 chairman at Portsmouth that screwed that club over, 2 at Liverpool now forced out, 2 at Manchester United that nobody wants, im sure Randy Lerner at Villa doesnt understand grass roots English football. So theres just a few examples.
Every time you read about a club being subject of an Arabian or Chinese takeover you can be rest assured that the bods running that club will have no passion for football or affiliation with that club. You can wrap scarves round your neck and have your smiley photos taken with your new toy (the boring squeaky clean stadium) in the backdrop but at the end of the day you are in it for the money and the money only. This is whats ruining the game and destroying the clubs.....and the money came from SKY.
This is why RM will not sell out to just anyone, because he wants it to be in the best interests of the club because......he is a proper football chairman who understands the roots of Charlton Athletic and the fans !
The Football League are the main culprits as they sold out to SKY in the first place !
Sad to see this post, even sadder that you missed the point and decided to imply im a sexist ! You obviously can't relate to this article !
Yes i did prefer things the way they were in that respect but thats my personal opinion, doesnt make me sexist though.
This post sums up society today: Why you can't sit on Father Christmas's knee anymore, why there is a mommy christmas, the fact you cant buy blackjacks, the reason you can't video your child at his school play, the reason you cant ask for a black coffee in some places.
You totally right, I can't related to this article because my view of football isn't a father working down t'pit Monday to Friday, coming home and giving my mother some house keeping money, then going for a pint of best with his son before standign to watch the football on Saturday.
But I deeply suspect yours isn't either.
Sorry that you don't want to take any critisim for your rant but, as you know, the world was so much better in the 1950s when women and children were seen but not heard.
and one more thing.
Really, name the me one place were you couldn't buy a black coffee. The Daily Mail is such a nice paper isn't it.
Then why is standing so prevalent in Germany ... and families attend on a regular basis?
There are no scousers in Germany?
You can buy a black coffee anywhere - you just have to ask for coffee without milk !
Dont, never had or never will read the Daily Mail either so couldnt answer that ? As you well know... D
(Big shout out to female supporter Fanny Fanackapan at this point)
I don't blame Sky, in fact i don't blame anyone because things evolved and you don't realise too much at the time, but if anything i blame the active football public of which i am part of.
If the paying football fan on mass said they were not going to pay the price of top flight tickets anymore and made a stand, the game would have to re-address itself. If all those people who moan about Sky's influence cancelled their subscriptions, then they would not have the impact they have. Outside of laws, companies may introduce change but it is always the public that ensure whether it is enforced or not.
At the end of the day though, people won't cancel their subscriptions because ultimately they want all or part of the product on offer, and people won't not renew their overpriced season tickets, or boycott away games because there is more often than not always some other mug at the top level who will pay it, and they don't want to be the one who misses out.
In terms of what football should be, it should be about balance and catering for all aspects that make up support. It shouldn't all be governed by single blokes on the booze, but equally it shouldn't be solely aimed at happy families sharing the 'matchday experience'.
I go some games with my mates, others with my wife and family, including a ten-year old girl. I'm pretty comfortable i can balance both those aspects following Charlton, and can't wait to introduce my kids to it when they are older.
But i'm very much in the camp that while 'going to football' should cater for all safely, it has to retain its 'earthiness' that keeps it very much real and gives it its edge from other forms of 'entertainment'. My wife and her sister virtually grew up on the East Terrace in the 70s / early 80s, they enjoyed it just fine without shiny seats and Wimpy outlets. I just searched back and read what i wrote after our away game at Arsenal's Emerites nearly 4 years ago.....
I want to see us do well, but i still want that 'realness' retained. If its not already disappeared from some top flight grounds, i'm pretty sure it wil soon. My boys will never ever get the pure buzz that a packed terrace can provide, and i think that is a real shame.
wtf?
The only reason I go now is because I like football.
I watch Charlton home games, occasional Dartford games and I watch a lot of Sky TV games. All because I like football. I do not go because I like to get drunk before the match, jump around and shout loads.
So, please don't rant at me if I don't get involved in the drinking, jumping, shouting or anti-Sky ranting. I am at heart just a football lover :-)